Trying behaviour

[feeb]

DS2 is nearly 2 and his behaviour is terrible.
He hits, kicks, slaps, pinches, bites, hits his brother or us for no reason. And at times will be repetative and ongoing.

He will sometimes hit or push other kids, and if and older child antagonises him he will lash out.

Can often see anger in his face and can be a right little turd!!

He still spends 60% of night in bed with us and feeds over night, has never slept thru (but thats another thread in itself)

We have tryed telling him off, removing him from situation, time out, smack on hand, pinch back. (not bite back) DH is at end of his tether he is over his behaviour and thinks there is something wrong with him mentally as he is so mean and violent.

DS1 has always been the placid, sensitive child who cries at EVERYTHING so didn't have this with him. But he has started hurting DS2 back eg bite him back etc and I don't want him to keep doing that.

Trying to explain to DH that all kids are different and do things differently, and that he can't talk properly/much so gets frustrated etc but he seems to think there is more too it than that.

Any more suggestions would be great as its causing tension in house.

[Santosha]

You say 'for no reason'. Does this mean that these behaviors happen completely out of the blue - or appear that way? Most child behavior theories argue that no behavior is without a trigger / underlying cause, it's just sometimes very tricky figuring out what that trigger is. Once you know what's driving the behavior, you'll know how to address it.

There's 1001 things to consider - diet, sleep, hunger, thirst, sensory issues, language (both expressive and receptive) difficulties, vision, hearing, attention, feeling frustrated, unheard, overwhelmed, frightened... If you're not sure at all it can be really helpful to document behavior. Firstly, overall - just make broad notes about what he ate each day, when and how much he slept and what he did as well as noting the timing of behavioral 'incidents' within all of this. Secondly, document a few of the more typical incidents in detail - context, company, lead-up, specifics of the behavior and exactly what happened after. What he did, what others did... what were the consequences - both intended and incidental. This often helps to reveal a pattern. Of course... at the end of the day it could just be a combination of personality and age, 2 things you can do far less about! But even tough little characters have their needs and triggers and can be helped by understanding what sets them off.

If this all seems overwhelming, this is something that a behavioral psych would do. Might be worth a couple of sessions just to help you get to the bottom of it, get some strategies and allay your DH's concerns. If you do this, chances are, they'll also ask you to document behavior so it might be worth doing this anyway to save time, money and explanations during expensive consultations.

Feel free to PM if you want to chat about this further.

[NaeNae]

just hugs x x

[appletree]

Feeb, my ds is almost the same age so I am sending you some sympathy! He is in our bed without fail every night, but isn't having milk, he also has a massive temper which was a big suprise after having a reasonably easy going dd!

Some things that I try when he gets into his destructo mood (as I like to call it!) are:

* give him some food in case it's because he is getting hungry, he prefers to eat small meals more frequently and doesn't have the attention span to sit through a whole meal with dd and I so I usually forget he hasn't had as much to eat as we have
* talk to him, like really get down and talk to him like we are having a completely normal conversation like I would with DD who is 4 1/2, this seems to work with him, I think because he is not only getting my complete attention but because he feels like he is getting what he wants across
* ask him to carry out a task, my ds loves to follow directions and will stop whatever he is doing when you ask him to do something that has a bit of a challenge, or involves the garbage bin!
* put him to bed, if nothing else is working he is likely to be tired!

[Liviam]

I'm subbing because we are in exactly the same spot and are really struggling with our kids behaviours and really want to help them settle down.

Sending you heaps of feeb because I know exactly how you are both feeling.

[Arcadia]

I'm not sure I have any answers, but in our house frustration and anger breeds those emotions in all of us...my dd is super sensitive to my moods and if I'm even a little bit crabby (ie when woken up at sparrows fart and ordered to go make her cereal right now) then I see that same crabbiness back at me...So perhaps you all need to clear the air and try and get dh to just accept ds for who he is right now...whatever that is...and encourage them to dance or wrestle together.

I am also one to quickly retaliate with similar behavior back to dd (if she grabs at ds's clothes then I do it to her), but I can safely say it does not work and just perpetuates the aggression and negativity (and is something I really need to work on).

Things that helped me when dd was in a physical stage:
positive outlets for physicality- wrestling, ball games, musical instruments and dancing
Very strict boundaries about acceptable behavior (so if dd hit me, she would get plonked on the ground and only picked up or lifted back onto bed/bench/seat when she could demonstrate gentle hands)
Praise gentle hands and positive actions
Distract or redirect negative behavior as much as possible while staying as calm as possible (the hadest part)

We are all human and aggression is part of our make up. We have to channel it and learn to use it positively, and that is a life lesson for your boys as well as you and dh.

Keep us updated on how it's going. I'm dreading the twos with ds...although threenager mood swings is pretty full on with dd at the moment.

thinking of you

[diva det]

aww hugs hun
there are a few things that came to mind when i read your thread. Only things that maybe you havent thought of, but worth checking to see if these could be the reason for his behaviour

1. Could his behaviour be out of frustration? Lack of language at this age can cause kids to lash out as - he knows how he feels but can express it. The connections between the sides of his brain that tell him that he shouldnt do something and the other side which tells him not to do it may not be developed yet. This can take up until the age of 7 before it becomes a problem and is a auditory processing issue.
2. If he is not sleeping all night perhaps he is dog tired- no easy answer for this i know . But tiredness may be a trigger for this behaviour
3. perhaps there is something in his diet that is causing his behaviour- my kids go out of control on anything orange- i mean no control of their actions and really impulsive/lash out behaviours

i reckon it would be worth keeping a bit of a diary, even for a couple of weeks. write down everything he eats, when he sleeps and how long for and if he has any outbursts, when and what happened before it occurred.

you might be able to see a pattern in black in white that you might not have noticed in real life.
The effect of food on kids can be huge!!! Food as you know can not only hype or make kids more impulsive, but also can cause pain and upset his tummy. grumpy child= child who can lash out!!

also it might be worth taking him to see someone. You know all the peads etc to see but what about something a bit out of left field.Depending on where your beliefs lie, perhaps even a natropath, homeopath, bio-resonance, or even a kinesologists. I know quite a few mums that swear by kinesolology and bio-resonance to settle their kids. Also a build up of some minerals or metals in children can cause impulsive behaviour. Also taking omega 3,6,9 can help as well. A great source is either those chewable vitamins or if you can get it into your boys is flaxseed oil.

a good ole rewards chart might be a good way to start to break pattern. aim for just a good Am or PM session to start with and then all day

sugar levels can also be a trigger as well- diary will help pick this up

i wish there was a magic answer but there isnt. It is obviously worrying you- so now its time to do something about it. Collect your data, seek professional help and perhaps you might find some answers. Kids are very rarely naughty without a reason. Address the reason, address the behaviour!!!
hugs hun and here with an ear anytime!
xxxx

[FabFiona]

You aren't alone. Your son and mine should play together.

[feeb]

You say 'for no reason'. Does this mean that these behaviors happen completely out of the blue - or appear that way? Most child behavior theories argue that no behavior is without a trigger / underlying cause, it's just sometimes very tricky figuring out what that trigger is. Once you know what's driving the behavior, you'll know how to address it.

There's 1001 things to consider - diet, sleep, hunger, thirst, sensory issues, language (both expressive and receptive) difficulties, vision, hearing, attention, feeling frustrated, unheard, overwhelmed, frightened... If you're not sure at all it can be really helpful to document behavior. Firstly, overall - just make broad notes about what he ate each day, when and how much he slept and what he did as well as noting the timing of behavioral 'incidents' within all of this. Secondly, document a few of the more typical incidents in detail - context, company, lead-up, specifics of the behavior and exactly what happened after. What he did, what others did... what were the consequences - both intended and incidental. This often helps to reveal a pattern. Of course... at the end of the day it could just be a combination of personality and age, 2 things you can do far less about! But even tough little characters have their needs and triggers and can be helped by understanding what sets them off.

If this all seems overwhelming, this is something that a behavioral psych would do. Might be worth a couple of sessions just to help you get to the bottom of it, get some strategies and allay your DH's concerns. If you do this, chances are, they'll also ask you to document behavior so it might be worth doing this anyway to save time, money and explanations during expensive consultations.

Feel free to PM if you want to chat about this further.

Thanks hun its very stressful and overwhelming as I keep thinking he will change!! I will start a food journal thanks for posting. Will PM you at some stage

just hugs x x

Thanks hun xoxo

Feeb, my ds is almost the same age so I am sending you some sympathy! He is in our bed without fail every night, but isn't having milk, he also has a massive temper which was a big suprise after having a reasonably easy going dd!

Some things that I try when he gets into his destructo mood (as I like to call it!) are:

* give him some food in case it's because he is getting hungry, he prefers to eat small meals more frequently and doesn't have the attention span to sit through a whole meal with dd and I so I usually forget he hasn't had as much to eat as we have
* talk to him, like really get down and talk to him like we are having a completely normal conversation like I would with DD who is 4 1/2, this seems to work with him, I think because he is not only getting my complete attention but because he feels like he is getting what he wants across
* ask him to carry out a task, my ds loves to follow directions and will stop whatever he is doing when you ask him to do something that has a bit of a challenge, or involves the garbage bin!
* put him to bed, if nothing else is working he is likely to be tired!

Thanks glad I am not alone!
He does snack a lot more than eat at meal times!! Dinner he rarely eats much at all.
He does like to do things so I do get him to get me things, put things on table, in bin etc (issue is always need 2 tasks as if not both kids fight over who is doing it)
Sleep is a battle he will not go into cot and go to sleep, he will feed to sleep and be able to be put down on couch or sometimes in cot. Night is a battle as well as DH wants to try and settle him but he just screams blue murder until he gets a BF and then falls asleep and can be put in cot and sleeps for a while in there then BF and in bed with us.

I'm subbing because we are in exactly the same spot and are really struggling with our kids behaviours and really want to help them settle down.

Sending you heaps of feeb because I know exactly how you are both feeling.

Hugs hun I hope you get thru it as well without going crazy!

I'm not sure I have any answers, but in our house frustration and anger breeds those emotions in all of us...my dd is super sensitive to my moods and if I'm even a little bit crabby (ie when woken up at sparrows fart and ordered to go make her cereal right now) then I see that same crabbiness back at me...So perhaps you all need to clear the air and try and get dh to just accept ds for who he is right now...whatever that is...and encourage them to dance or wrestle together.

I am also one to quickly retaliate with similar behavior back to dd (if she grabs at ds's clothes then I do it to her), but I can safely say it does not work and just perpetuates the aggression and negativity (and is something I really need to work on).

Things that helped me when dd was in a physical stage:
positive outlets for physicality- wrestling, ball games, musical instruments and dancing
Very strict boundaries about acceptable behavior (so if dd hit me, she would get plonked on the ground and only picked up or lifted back onto bed/bench/seat when she could demonstrate gentle hands)
Praise gentle hands and positive actions
Distract or redirect negative behavior as much as possible while staying as calm as possible (the hadest part)

We are all human and aggression is part of our make up. We have to channel it and learn to use it positively, and that is a life lesson for your boys as well as you and dh.

Keep us updated on how it's going. I'm dreading the twos with ds...although threenager mood swings is pretty full on with dd at the moment.

thinking of you

Thanks hun the trying something physical is a good idea will give that a go, he is generally easily distracted by ipad or iphone or putting wiggles or playschool on them or TV

Will keep updating

aww hugs hun
there are a few things that came to mind when i read your thread. Only things that maybe you havent thought of, but worth checking to see if these could be the reason for his behaviour

1. Could his behaviour be out of frustration? Lack of language at this age can cause kids to lash out as - he knows how he feels but can express it. The connections between the sides of his brain that tell him that he shouldnt do something and the other side which tells him not to do it may not be developed yet. This can take up until the age of 7 before it becomes a problem and is a auditory processing issue.
2. If he is not sleeping all night perhaps he is dog tired- no easy answer for this i know . But tiredness may be a trigger for this behaviour
3. perhaps there is something in his diet that is causing his behaviour- my kids go out of control on anything orange- i mean no control of their actions and really impulsive/lash out behaviours

i reckon it would be worth keeping a bit of a diary, even for a couple of weeks. write down everything he eats, when he sleeps and how long for and if he has any outbursts, when and what happened before it occurred.

you might be able to see a pattern in black in white that you might not have noticed in real life.
The effect of food on kids can be huge!!! Food as you know can not only hype or make kids more impulsive, but also can cause pain and upset his tummy. grumpy child= child who can lash out!!

also it might be worth taking him to see someone. You know all the peads etc to see but what about something a bit out of left field.Depending on where your beliefs lie, perhaps even a natropath, homeopath, bio-resonance, or even a kinesologists. I know quite a few mums that swear by kinesolology and bio-resonance to settle their kids. Also a build up of some minerals or metals in children can cause impulsive behaviour. Also taking omega 3,6,9 can help as well. A great source is either those chewable vitamins or if you can get it into your boys is flaxseed oil.

a good ole rewards chart might be a good way to start to break pattern. aim for just a good Am or PM session to start with and then all day

sugar levels can also be a trigger as well- diary will help pick this up

i wish there was a magic answer but there isnt. It is obviously worrying you- so now its time to do something about it. Collect your data, seek professional help and perhaps you might find some answers. Kids are very rarely naughty without a reason. Address the reason, address the behaviour!!!
hugs hun and here with an ear anytime!
xxxx

Thanks hun I do think a lot is frustration and have always said that to DH but he is just getting jack of it all and trying to settle him, and getting hit etc then and randomly at other times, he just gets frustrated with him and then ****ty with me as he is annoyed! Tells me to wean ya da ya da etc. I do like the ease of a quick fix of boob!!

Sleep yep he is crap at that!! so high chance is he is severly tired but tryed so many ways to settle him and still can't get him to sleep anywhere near as well as DS1 at same age!

Will try a food diary hope its not strawberries or milk or cheese and he would be devestated without them!!

I have suggested to DH about osteopath, kinesiologist etc will see how I go again suggesting!

[feeb]

You aren't alone. Your son and mine should play together.

Hugs hun glad to hear others are in same position! We should catch up 1 day so they can bash each other up and leave us all alone LOL

[feeb]

Another trying day of him hitting his brother and doing all he can to hurt him!! Currently having time out in his cot as he can't escape and I need 5 mins without him bad mummy.

[Arcadia]

you're a great mummy! Safe spaces and some time out for both of you is a great idea.

I wish I could magically make it better! I need some advice on managing three year old dd's mood swings. Sheesh it's like living with a 14 year old (minus the smoking and wagging of course!)

[appletree]

Not a bad mummy feeb! DS had already had 3 lots of time out by the time we made it to 7am this morning... I decided a girls day was required and left him at home with DF

If it makes you feel any better, right now its bath time and i have so far had a bucket of water thrown over me, 90% of the bath water is all over the floor and DS is now smacking his own bottom saying 'poo' and making fart noises between laughing hysterically at himself! DD is screaming as he has poo'd in the bath a few times in the last few months and she thinks he is going to do it again!

I hope you enjoyed those 5 minutes, you deserve them!

[Mak]

It is hard yakka at times - good on you for grabbing some space for everyone. DD2 was a shocker just before 2 - she was super frustrated and felt like we didn't get what she wanted, so lashed out. So very different to DD1 it was a big shock.
Do you have a trampoline? The bouncing is a great way for getting rid of angry energy. Seriously! We've also had running laps around the washing line and using totem tennis/kicking soccer balls as a distraction when the energy ramps up.
I had also been a bit slack about food in terms of waiting until they asked for it - so we got more structured there with breaky asap after getting up, fruit snack about 9.30 and then lunch at 11. I cut back the sugary processed stuff and started to enforce a quiet time after lunch. Usually with a DVD as no one here sleeps much at the best of times. I did also get her hearing and ears checked as we have had isses with DD1.
Good luck! I found the worst part here was DH wanting it to be fixed and not getting that we had to work through it, lol.