How much hands on involvement do you give LOs with your newborn?

[LuluHB]

This is an issue that is starting to worry me. My girls will have just turned 4 and 5 when DD3 comes along and they are both telling me how they're going to hold the baby in their arms and rock her to sleep (picture shaken baby syndrome!), feed her (tried to explain that's something only mummy can do for a long time), give her a bath, change her clothes etc. Now, I know that obviously 4 and 5 year olds don't give baths to newborns but just what do you let your LOs do with their new brother/sister?

I've always held the belief (rightly or wrongly) that newborns are not dolls to be passed around so when my girls were born their cousins were never given cuddles. I think their mothers picked up on the vibe so even as the girls got older there were never requests from the kids to hold them even though they held the two subsequent babies born into our extended family. Obviously when its my girls' little sister things will be different and I do want them to cuddle her, play with her etc but short of them always sitting down and having the baby placed in their arms, what else can they safely do?

I have awful nightmares when I'm pregnant and they are now turning to truly horrible things like my newborn being dropped, having her neck broken, her head damaged etc. I know they're just crazy dreams, but they're pushing me towards a place where I can see myself being overly cautious when my baby is here.

Thanks if you've got this far through my neurotic waffle. Any advice appreciated (including me seeking psychiatric help )

[*Ang*]

DD1 was 5 1/2 when DD2 was born. I would allow her to hold her in the initial newborn stages provided she was sitting and there was an adult sitting next to her. DS was 3 and it was the same with him. Upon saying that I wouldn't let other children/cousins hold her in those first few weeks because I was wary of them - I had more control over my own children IYKWIM?

Bath-time they would help me wash her with a cloth and splash water over her, they would also attempt to give her toys no matter how many times I would tell them she didn't need them. Quite a funny sight seeing a newborn covered in toys in the bath!

The best "help" that I would ask of them would be to "entertain" the baby on the floor. I would have DD2 lying on a playmat, give the children a heap of soft baby toys and ask them to "play" with her. They felt responsible and loved doing it....most of the time it just involved them shaking the toys at her but I knew they couldn't hurt her as she was on the floor and safe. Other things like getting me a nappy, flannel etc were great little helper jobs.

[*EJ*]

A bit different for me as my children are younger. My oldest was 2 when DS2 was brong and 3 (1 month off being 4) when DD was born. My thoughts were that if i make the baby something that they can't touch, hold, look at or even help out with then it could magnify any jealousy issues. So i did my best within reason to allow what they wanted but always supervised. With your girls just make it quite clear that there is no holding without supervision right from day one. Have rules and allowances and no negociating what you are and aren't comfortable with. Also in my expereince (also again with younger ones) that if they ask for a hold i would lay the little one in their arms once there were sitting comfy (ensuring safety etc) and 2 seconds later they'd be ok you can take him/her now

I hope your dreams ease off soon for you. I'm sure your little one will be just fine

I think a good safety measure to stick with is you dont' have to be there right on top of them all the time but never take your eyes off them and what is happening. Eg in situations where they could pick bub up and possibly drop her. If it helps at all when i was 4ish and my brother probably 2ish i tried to get him out of his cot and dropped him And he's perfectly fine

Oh and DS2 loved to lie on DD and squash her, i had to always be watching him but again she has survived that fine.

All the best for learning to be a family of 5 xo

[Artechim]

My kids are 4 and 2. They hold the baby when sitting - DS can hold her unsupervised but I sit next to DD when she is holding. Neither have ever tried to pick her up otherwise. When she is lying on the floor they both give her cuddles and kisses and lie next to her and talk etc. DS likes to do up the tabs on her nappy. Sometimes I get in the bath with all three of them and hold the baby, they love that.

Other than that they do little jobs to help with her - get a blanket/wipes/nappy/toy.

I guess if you make them sit to hold bubba from day 1 then that is just how it is done, they won't expect any different.

[Nai]

DD1 was 3 when DD2 was born. She would sit in bed with pillows and hold her while supervised. She was allowed to stand on a stool and help me wash DD2 in the baby bath and help give her massages with baby massage oil. She would also also lie on the floor with her and play gently. All of this was supervised and I would show her how to do it.

It helped that DD2 would only sleep in the sling on me during the day for the first 8 weeks so she was on me for the most part. I think it's good to involve them but ensure they are supervised and understand what they are and are not allowed to do with the baby.

[peanutter]

when I was 4 or 5, I helped my mum with lots of things for my little brothers ... changing their nappies and their clothes, playing with them, bathing them (together in the bath, generally with some supervision) and heating up bottles etc. Fetching things for mum, packing away toys, rocking them or gently swaying them in the bouncer, whatever.

there were lots of things which I can remember doing to help

my DS will be 21 months when Ziggy arrives, so I'm guessing he won't be doing any of those things though

[wysiwyg]

Similar to EJ - DD 26 months when DS arrived - and I also wanted to help avoid jealousy issues. I do feel I put through DS alot of stuff that DD didn't have to put up with (e.g. her efforts at helping bathe him etc) but he just adores her - if she is in the room he doesn't look anywhere else so that does make me feel a bit better. She isn't allowed to pick him up and I am always supervising but I do let her have a fair bit of hands on contact with him, and always explain what she is and isn't allowed to do and why. I must use the phrase "He is not a toy" a fair bit because she has said that to me a couple of times. The main problem is she likes to be so close to him I have to pay close attention that she isn't squashing him - but in the main she is very good. I would think with 4-5 year olds there are a few things they can help with in terms of dressing maybe not putting things over the head but putting socks on bubs for example could be a help, or placing a hat on head (my DD is ok at doing this and is 2.5), wiping gently with a flannel etc. I think they will surprise you how good they can be with your little one.

[Artechim]

Peanutter just reminded me - I was 5 when my brother was born and I clearly remember changing nappies (cloth and pin type!), he was wriggly but not mobile so he must have been around 6 months and me 5.5 years. I also warmed bottles/fed him (with instruction) and carted him about the place. I would trust my DS to do these things when he is 5, he is nearly capable now.

[starangelk]

I was 6 when my little sister was born and I too helped with changing nappies, holding her, rocking her etc etc. That was a long time ago though.

My DD was only 15 months when DS was born and she was interested in holding him until it actually came time to do it. She found him really heavy and awkward and only tolerated a few minutes of a cuddle. We instead encouraged lots of pats on the belly and kisses on his scalp, tummy or feet. We also showed her how to hold his hand. That was enough for her.

With friends kids and families kids, I might be a bit relaxed after reading your post. If the child is over 5, I'm happy for them to have a cuddle without close supervision. I mean an adult would be in the same room but doesn't need to be sitting right there assisting. I let an 8 year old family member carry DS around at christmas time and I wasn't worried at all. In fact, I left her there with him while I went to get a bib. I never thought anything of it until her mother saw and commented that I was relaxed about it all.

I think it's an each to their own thing. You might feel differently once bub is here and see how everyone copes.

[LuluHB]

Thanks so much ladies. I really need to try and relax about it all I guess. I am worried that my concerns will result in the girls being jealous of their baby sister and that's the last thing I want (next to an injured baby of course). My girls are such gentle little souls so I know nothing they did would ever be through nastiness or even carelessness - just a lack of understanding of what a newborn needs. And you're right - I probably am really underestimating their abilities.

Starangelk - I wish I could be more like you, or at least somewhere between me and you! I know I am probably a bit over protective when they're tiny (definitely not now that they're bigger), but they are just so damn small and precious.