Tantrums. Way over the top.

[~clover~]

I'm not sure how much more of this I can take.

DD got the flu a week ago. Fevers have gone, but she's still not feeling great. Neither am I, & I've pretty much lost my voice.
For the last 3 or 4 nights DD has been waking up to 4 times a night screaming. Throwing tantrums. I did fully wean her over 3 weeks ago & this is part of the problem. At least one or 2 of these wake ups are for boob.But she wasn't doing it til now. There was 2.5 weeks of being weaned with none of this. Its only now & its going on for over an hour at a time.

She's just gotten out of bed. Asked for weetbix for brekky, then a drink. Got them for her & she's now laying on the floor screaming coz she wants something else. She did the same thing with rice bubbles at 3am.

She's just doing this non stop. All day & all through the night. I understand that tantrums are developmental & frustration & all the rest, but in the middle of the night? Waking in a tantrum? Screaming for over an hour with each tantrum?

I have 4 kids. This is way over the top. I've had it.

[Artechim]

I lived like that on and off for a couple of years with DS. You might just be the first person that I have come across that has also had it happen.

DS did it from around 2 and would do it for a month or three, then settle back down and then it would ramp up again. It has slowly faded over time and the last time he did it mildly was 4.5.

I really feel your frustration. It is actually infuriating. Like day tantrums aren't crap enough, dealing with it for hours at a time several times a night is just ****. Totally crap.

I have no suggestions for you because we tried everything we could think of (ignoring, yelling, bribes, cuddles, comfort toys, telly, co-sleeping....) with DS and got no results - the frequency and intensity of them just faded over time.

Wish I could do something to help xx

[~clover~]

Well I'm glad to hear they do stop, or ease for a while at least. But I'm not sure how much longer I can handle it.

I'm just exhausted. I'll deal with it, but life is just getting so on top of me right now, that I really wonder how. She usually starts in her bed then comes to mine anyway, but last night she was only in bed an hour or 2 before the first one started. Then it was only another hour before the second one.

I thought it was hunger, because I wasn't feeding her anymore, but last night I made sure she had a decent dinner & ate plenty through the day & it didn't make a difference. If anything last night was worse.

She doesn't seem to be in pain, but I might try a dose of panadol before bed tonight to see if there's a difference. As far as I know all her teeth are through now, so doubt it'd be that.

She's waking the other kids (and probably the neighbours!) too, but they're not loosing too much sleep yet.

[Three Graces]

She doesn't have an ear infection, does she? I remember DS had an ear infection once and it really hurt when he lay down to sleep, but he wasn't too bad during the day. Could explain the major tanties at night? Flu can also take ages for fully recover from, so maybe it's still that?

[~clover~]

I'm not sure. I think she's old enough to tell me she has a sore ear, but maybe being the middle of the night she's not able to figure it out. Wish I'd thought of it, doctor was out here today...
And yeah, she's probably not completely over it. I think I am over reacting just because I'm so tired & sick as well

[Artechim]

Is she a tantrumer during the day? High maintenance?

Hang in there I know it is hard and draining. Hopefully it is something transient that is bothering her and it will pass soon without becoming an ongoing issue xx

[onthefly]

Sounds like your own resilience is at a very low level - that always makes things so much harder I hope things settle down a bit for you.
One thing that has helped with my little tantrumer, is to recognise that it's ok for her to express herself. She will learn in time a better way to do this (I hope!) and I try to keep calm (with mixed success, I must admit) to model better behaviour, but at the moment, she screams and yells and it's just noise. I try to only take action if someone or something is in harm's way when she gets physical. It doesn't stop her behaviour, it just helps me freak less.

[~clover~]

Yes. Tantrums are through the day as well. & still very over the top compared to all my other kids & all other kids I know at that age. We have at least 5 - 8 through the day every day, as well as the 3 - 5 over night.
And yes... she is unbelievably high maintenance. To the point that its a running joke between most of my friends & I.


MadB - I'm pretty much the same. Its just through the night I have trouble. Especially while I'm sick.

I spent 5 weeks trying to cut her down to one feed in the early mornings & she wasn't having a bar of it. After 5 weeks of her still waking crying for a feed every hour or 2, I stopped feeding her completely & she slept through the very next night.
Over the next week she did wake still. Less & less each night, til she was only waking to come into my bed & I wouldn't even know. So to have her screaming for a feed the way she is again is confusing & frusterating. Its been over 3 weeks since she had her last feed.


This too shall pass. Eventually.

[AndiE]

Sounds really tough Clover. Hope it improves for you soon.

No idea if this is something similar, but DS2 can be a challenging child. We certainly have our share of tanties during the day, and rebellious (for want of a better word) behaviour. For about the past 6-8 months he wakes during the night once every week or two and has a tanty. He screeches, whinges and whines, can throw his body around kicking and pummelling his bed and rejects all attempts to sooth him. When he's like this his answer to eveything is a very stroppy "no" (ie/ would you like a drink of water, are you hot etc ... "NO"). It used to do our heads in as we didn't know what caused it, but we've come to realise that he's not really awake when it happens. Kind of like sleep-walking, but appearing wide awake. He can go from full-on tanty to sound asleep in seconds - it's just a matter of us waiting it out, but normally he's asleep within 10-15 minutes. He can have a couple of these episodes a night, then nothing for a week or two.

My experience is probably completely different to your DD's, so I'm probably no help, but I do have a vague idea of where you're coming from.
All the best, xx

[Artechim]

She sounds like my DS. We went though patches that lasted months of him having 5-6 tantrums a day, each lasting an hour minimum It really was hell. He did it from around 18 months until 3, with some clear times and then something would tip him over and we would start the cycle again. I had to get out of the house to as many activities as possible because he wouldn't tantrum in public and being at home it was a guarantee.

Do you think she may have SPD/ADHD? I only ask because I see your older daughter does and these things can occur more frequently in families. DS is my first kid so I don't think I was as aware of how completely OTT his behaviour was. Having my daughters has shown me how far from normal he was. My 3 year old has meltdowns but they are not even in the ballpark of what DS used to do (and still does!). I don't even think she would have tantrumed at all if she hadn't learned it from him. He has something going on that isn't neuro typical - a bit of sensory issue, a fair bit of anxiety, high IQ...nothing enough to be diagnosed with anything but many oddities that make him very hard work!

I have found sugar to be a trigger with my DS - if they have a treat at kindy I know that by 4pm he will be howling over anything trivial.

Does she self settle at all? Going to sleep at the start of the night by herself? Some of my DS's problem is that he cannot self regulate and calm/settle himself. Even after I night weaned him (in an attempt to get him to sleep longer than 2 hours) he still woke constantly and need a hug to get him back to sleep. As a baby the *only* way to settle him was to BF and as a consequence he never learned any method to do it himself - he would just get agitated and more upset and I would feed him to calm him down, continuing the cycle. That is one of the conclusions from the child psych we were seeing and explains why he couldn't stop a tantrum once it started.

Just chucking out any ideas that pop into my head, I have BTDT and I only had one other kid and a DH at the time.

[BrightSparkles]

Sounds really tough Clover. Hope it improves for you soon.

No idea if this is something similar, but DS2 can be a challenging child. We certainly have our share of tanties during the day, and rebellious (for want of a better word) behaviour. For about the past 6-8 months he wakes during the night once every week or two and has a tanty. He screeches, whinges and whines, can throw his body around kicking and pummelling his bed and rejects all attempts to sooth him. When he's like this his answer to eveything is a very stroppy "no" (ie/ would you like a drink of water, are you hot etc ... "NO"). It used to do our heads in as we didn't know what caused it, but we've come to realise that he's not really awake when it happens. Kind of like sleep-walking, but appearing wide awake. He can go from full-on tanty to sound asleep in seconds - it's just a matter of us waiting it out, but normally he's asleep within 10-15 minutes. He can have a couple of these episodes a night, then nothing for a week or two.

My experience is probably completely different to your DD's, so I'm probably no help, but I do have a vague idea of where you're coming from.
All the best, xx

Wow! This is what happens with my dd2. It's not just me!
Hope things settle for you soon clover x

[~clover~]

AndiE. Those sound like night terrors to me. My dd1 used to have them. She is also a sleep walker.
It's something to do with being in between sleep cycles. They usually occur about the same time every night & you can try preventing them by waking them for a drink or something just before the time they would usually have a terror. (If only I'd known that 10 years ago )


Artechim - I do wonder about the SPD/ADHD. I've said from when she was on the go at 4 months old that it wouldn't surprise me. She's much much harder than dd2.
But I know these things aren't easy to tell at this age, because so much of it can be typical behaviour. Until you are in our lives day to day or hear the stories of what she's been up to this time, you wouldn't believe it. And she only turned 2 last week.

I'm pretty tight on sugar & additives. Dd2 is set off by certain colours & flavours. So I avoid most, but not all. They do have 1 cordial every few days & a lolly or something every week or 2. More because we're with family & there are 10 other kids getting it than anything.

She's not as bumped & bruised as she was now that we have no steps. But she's still clumsy. Pulled a mirror down & smashed it over herself at 13 months!

I think I might be ignoring any suspicions I have about her behaviour most of the time, because I've been judged so much on dd2's diagnosis. I'm not ready to go there yet & I don't think there's any point for at least another 3 or 4 years.

[~clover~]

On the plus side, she's asleep a little easier tonight! Still some carry on, but she didn't go blue in the face

[ohnoauntflo]

Hi
I know it's very hard. Although I don't have a one step solution but I can tell you what has helped when my 2 year old wakes up in the middle of the night and keeps asking for 101 different things.

I used to give them to her. It was water. Then her doll which was god knows where. Then read a book. the list goes on and I used to think that letting them have it as long as it's not harmful is ok. She would then get what she wants and go back to sleep.
No
It didn't work like that. I have found that I would have to tell her firmly NO. Its dark. Everyone is asleep. It is bed time . Time to sleep. Swtich the lights off lay her down and shee soon realise it won't work anymore. so she asked what she could have and she knew I would give. Which is a song i usually sing to her before bedtime and in 10 minutes she's fast asleep. yes there were some tears and screams (mine has bad tantys too as u know) but to give in was communicating to her that it is ok for her to requests such things at such a time and I am willing to fulfill your demands.
So they think it's ok
and they do it again and again and again.
I hope thigs get better for you. It has worked for us.

[Artechim]

How are you going now Clover?

[~clover~]

We were doing ok. Til 2 or 3 days ago. We were up at 5 - 5.30 for breaky every morning. 3.30 on the rare occasion.
Last night it was 11pm, 2 & (5 minutes sleep) 2.20am, then she finally slept from about 3.30 to 7.30.

I'm so tired. She's that exhausted she fell asleep at 9.30 yesterday morning & slept for over 2 hours. Usually it 12/1 - 2ish.

[Butterfly Dawn]

That is exhausting.
I lurking in this thread cause dd is similar. I'm taking ds1 to be adhd checked as soon as I can get an appt. Dd is following in his footsteps x10 already and she is only 16mth.

We have night tantrums over blankets. The feel of certain materials on her skin sets her off. We worked this out after 2 weeks.
She also has night terrors but they are different.
She is very high maintenance already.

Sorry no advice

[~clover~]

Sounds like sensory issues BD. Sounds like she might be a sensory avoider. DD2 is a seeker. Not sure about DD3 yet, if there are any sensory issues at all.