At my wit's end - 5yo 'accidents'

[LimeSlice]

I am at my wit's end about what to do with DD1 (just turned 5) and her aparent inability to go to the toilet.

I just lost it at her, I am beyond frustrated and nothing I do or say seems to encourage her to do what she needs to be doing.

For a while now, she has been wetting her pants. Not a big deal in itself, and certainly when it started - really probably a year ago, she was just turned 4 and was to be expected. She did it mostly at home, not sure why, usually kinder was not an issue. Maybe they were sending her more often or something?

Anyway, it has progressed from having an accident, to not changing her wet pants - sitting in them for HOURS on end and not telling anyone, even at kinder. She has had the most horrendous chaffing nappy rash 3 times in the last 2 weeks because she is sitting in them! She has spare knickers and pants in her bag every day, she knows this, she knows how to use them, but still this problem is getting worse.

She will not go to the toilet until she is so busting she is sitting on the ground on her heel rocking backwards and forwards, she often leaves it so late that by the time she gets to the toilet and is trying to get on it that she can't actually stand up because she will wet herself.
She is telling me she doesn't know when she needs to go until it is coming out. But surely then that would be a CONSTANT problem - and it isn't. Some days she will go all day with no accidents, others she has 10!

This escalation has coincided with a huge increase in her night wetting. Which, has mostly, been a thing of the past for several months. She has asked me to buy nappy pants for nighttime, which I begrudgingly did, but they have only made it worse - now she gets up in the morning ans SITS in them, doesn't go to the toilet, but wees in them. She put them on after her shower the other night, sat down and watched the end of her cartoon and 20 mins later by bedtime had already weed in them - despite me sending her to the toilet before bedtime!
I'm not buying them again. They aren't working, and are making this worse.

But I am really at a loss. The last rash was sooo bad, my sister had to hold her down so I could put the Bepanthen on her, she was screaming it was so painful. I had a big talk with her then about not sitting in wet knickers, changing her pants straight away, I thought that having now experienced such an extreme consequence she might understand, it might get through. I have always assured her - and stuck to it - that she won't get in trouble or anything for accidents if she comes and asks for help, but she MUST change her pants or let her teacher know or me know so we can change them.
Still it gets worse.

I spoke to her kinder teacher about it the other day, she assured me she would remind her to go more often throughout the day, and when I got back to pick her up in the afternoon, I had a bag of wet pants handed to me. Apparently she asked her if she needed to go a few times, and all times DD said no, she didn't, but now we have still had an accident!

I am going mental. She is starting school next year, and I need to resolve this issue. I don't understand what is going on, why she is putting off going so badly it always ends in wet knickers and now why she is hiding that. I mean, I don't mind if she goes and changes her knickers on the sly - which she *could* theoretically do (she knows where they are, can put them on etc) - but she is just ... sitting... in urine.

Any advice, help, experience welcomed! I don't want to make her really upset again like I just have, and I really don't know what to do.

[AnyDream]

Go and see the GP with a urine sample to rule out any infection then get a referral to see a pediatric incontinence nurse.

[Liz]

First thing that comes to my mind is a reward system. I know people don't like reward charts, but they've worked well for us on the odd occasion we've tried them. I also find reward charts remind ME to praise when they've done the right thing LOL.

Would she respond to collecting stars or something for each time she changes herself straight away, and maybe extra stars for a completely dry day?

My 5yo was hopeless at getting herself to the toilet at our last camping trip.. drove me mental. Hers was purely being too busy and leaving it too long to walk up to the facilities (and even too long to rip off her pants and go behind a tree). Maybe it's the age where they think they've got this toilet thing down pat, so think they can hold longer than they really can :/

I hope others have got more suggestions and it improves somewhat before school starts. And don't beat yourself up about losing it at her, they're at an age that we expect them to understand these things, and it's very frustrating!

[Ca Plane Pour Moi]

I just tell Liebling he needs to go when I notice him doing his "I need the loo" dance.

Then he still doesn't go and even managed to have an accident the other day. I was cross but he was so freaked out by everything being wet (how large is this child's bladder?) he wasn't told off, he was just told "you should have gone when I told you ten minutes ago and you told me you had".

I would do timed loo visits for a bit.

I would also look at some sort of regression with her, maybe some sort of attention seeking, maybe she needs to talk about recent changes and doesn't know how to go about it?

[Lisa]

My daughter was like this. She has bladder urge issues where the sensation to wee doesn't occur until she is at busting point and then it is difficult to stop the wee from coming out.
Try to get her in to see a continence nurse or even a physio if possible. I know there is a chair tgat can be used that sends painless, electrical impulses through to the pelvic floor to strengthen them. What worked for my daughter was time and teaching her to strengthen her pelvic floor by telling her to use the muscles to stop herself from breaking wind. Good luck LS xx

[Doing my best]

Whilst checking what the other posters have said, I would also be looking at the attention aspect. She has had a lot of upheaval in her life and this could be her way of dealing with that.. Also I notice with my DD, a few days older than your DD1, that if we have had a bad run of things where she has not had enough Mummy time, she has 'accidents' for attention (I know some a genuine accidents, but I also know some aren't, not just toileting, general things). No matter how much I share my time with them individually and together, they only seem to see that the other is getting time, and forget about the last hr that was focused on them Is it possible your DD1 sees that nappy change time with your DD2 is 'fun' and she wants to go back to that safe and secure time with you?

Hope you get some answers and can help her move on from this..

[LimeSlice]

Thanks everyone, I really appreciate it.

I will try and find a continence nurse - do I ask the GP?

I am just not sure if she is saying she doesn't feel it because she is trying to hide that she just did go soon enough or not. It confuses me because she TTd herself at a very early age and was in knickers full time before she turned 2. Maybe this has set me up to have unreal expectations about her toileting and her age?

I will bring back a reward chart to help too in the meantime an keep up with the telling her to go often.

[Chrispe]

My DD was still wetting herself until she went to school. (the other kids laughed at her and she then made sure she went on time)

One thing I noticed was that if she had a UTI it made everything worse because she didn't necessarily feel the urge until we was peeing.
Other times it was because she was 'too busy' to go to the toilet.

[AnyDream]

Your GP should know, otherwise they may be public ones that you can access somehow via the MACH system there (sorry not sure how it works in Vic).

[littlelara]

The thing that makes me think she does know she needs to go but doesn't want to for whatever reason is the rocking on her heels.
I would be sitting her on the toilet periodically, whether she says she needs to go or not.
Best of luck, it must be so frustrating

[Butterfly Dawn]

I'm subbing
Mater 4/5 has always been this way. At the last min he screams and runs to the loo often not making it.
At night time I take to the loo before I go to bed and if he's had a lot to drink that night I will take him again when I feed DD during the night.

I'm really interested in the incontinence nurse idea
Hope you can start to improve her TT soon

[krysalyss]

If you say to her it is time to go (rather than does she need to go?) will she go then? Or does she really resist it? I agree with what the others have said in that I would be taking her at scheduled intervals and have her back in night nappies until at least the rash clears up. Then I would still use night nappies until she is better during the day. I wouldn't make a big fuss but would be pretty firm that when I said it was time, then it is time.