Tips for a 17 month old sleep resistor?

[wysiwyg]

DS has always been a little problematic at getting to sleep since 6 months but the past few months has taken it to new levels - he is now 17 months old. He sleeps ok overnight (wakes once normally but am cool with that) - but is taking 1-2 hours to go to sleep every night. He is tired, and will lay there with me next to him up to the point where he can't hold his eyes open any longer and then it is like he thinks "Oh hell I am falling asleep quick do something" and the thing he does is either poke himself in the eye, bang his head against the wall or stand up (often he stands while eyes still closed). He is on a mattress on the floor - because he really didn't like the cot, slept better on mattress the six weeks we were in the UK, and my back couldn't tolerate the in and out of cot. He also shares a room with DD (two bedroom flat so only other option is back in our room, which is where he was till 1 year old - but I really don't want to bring him back in). I can't let him cry much because he might wake DD or if she isn't asleep it distresses her, if he wanders round in the room he often will go over and shake her and disturb her. I do say to him lie down or mummy is leaving, and he will for a bit but then as soon as realizes is drifting up does the stand up thing again. He is the same for DH. Very occasionally we let him roam the lounge room till he expires but even then if I didn't hold him I don't think he would stop. Have tried putting him to bed earlier, and later (DD has to go later then too as she won't go to bed without him now) - to no avail. In the day he sleeps in stroller fine if out and about, and generally settles for a day sleep at home ok too after a feed. The evening feed seems to give him more energy if anything - but he does have a bit of a routine of books, boob and bed. (Baths don't seem to help or hinder his sleeping). Patting him seems to make no difference he is happy to be patted, or jiggled (he sleeps on tummy) until the eyes shut and he stands up.

I really resent losing my evenings - often I fall asleep with him which is ok once in a while but I want to have some free time - if I could choose I would choose an overnight wake up instead of a 2 hour bedtime ritual. He is super cute about it, puckering up wanting another kiss, or saying "Again" after certain songs, smiling and being adorable but I really need sometime in the evening.

Any other things I could try?

DD has always laid down and gone to sleep without me being there (she is a thumb sucker, as was he till 6 months) - but now she is getting a bit particular about wanting me in the room too, just because I am doing it for him.

If he was just content in his bed without me, and without being a pain to his sister I would be happy - even if it took him a while to drift off. (I love the feeling of giving in to sleep myself find it hard to understand why he resists it so much)

[DreamBabies]

What time does he eat dinner? I feed my daughter (15 months) right on 5pm. She has milk at 6pm. Then we have a little play and stories until 6.30pm and she's out. She wakes up during the night and doesn't really self-settle but will go straight back down with a quick cuddle.

Could it be new teeth coming through. BD was really clingy and restless each time she was getting a tooth.

My only suggestion is to feed him earlier.

[Santosha]

Oh Vic, that sounds EXHAUSTING!! As you know, DS was a horror with night wakings but has always been ok to get to sleep. DD was our nightmare to get to sleep but I rocked her, often for an hour or two, for 16 months (my poor back) and then sat by her cot for HOURS after that and I totally know what you mean about resenting losing your evenings. We ended up getting pretty tough with her and doing rapid return rather than staying in the room (which she hated but adjusted to reasonably quickly) purely because we realised that she was ending up experiencing a lot of negativity with us in the room (ending up getting cross with her or snapping at her to lie down for the 100th time) which really defeated the purpose of us staying with her for the sake of comfort!

That's all fine and well, but doesn't solve that he will disturb DD.

Ok... suggestions at random...

Can you re-introduce the cot but be a bit tougher about him staying in it. Stay in the room and provide comfort and reassurance if he's lying down but walk out (and do rapid return) if he's standing/mucking around)?

If he's likely to kick up a fuss as you introduce new strategies, can you start DD in your room in the evening (I know my DD would be so excited by this that she wouldn't sleep, but just an idea)

Things to distract him from the falling asleep process? What actually finally sold DD on the idea of going to sleep on her own was being allowed a glow stick or time with her torch. If there was too much mucking around, the glow stick had to 'go to bed'. She LOVED them and would skip off to bed in anticipation of her glow stick. Could also try music, those light projector thingys.

Is there any chance he's over tired? Is it possible that because he's often napping in the pram, he's not getting enough of a day time sleep? I know the only time DS IS really hard to get to sleep, is when he's over tired. Could you try having a really quiet week at home, at least around nap times to see if this makes any difference to him?

Could there be anything he's reacting to in dinner? Do you often have salycylates (in fruit) for dessert for example? This can make some kids really 'wired'

Would he enjoy baby massage?


.... That's all I've got for now. Good luck Hun. Remember, this too shall pass. xoxo

[Dollyroux]

Oh Vic! .
I'd be bloody resentful too! I don't really have any awesome suggestions - do you think he would take a dummy at this age? Would he watch something on the laptop till he fell asleep? That's about it. I hope you find a solution; it sounds so frustrating. Good luck.

[Dollyroux]

Add: I know the above aren't great or permanent solutions and are introducing another crutch to deal with but whatever gets you there?

[wysiwyg]

Thanks for the ideas - I had thought of a dummy but had assumed he would be a bit old to take to one - I did try one a month or so back and he just mucked around with it (tries giving to me, throws in the air etc) but maybe wasn't a great one? (one in a freebie bag). He obviously used to find sucking comforting as sucked thumb till six months ish and was dream sleeper then (although did fight it a little but not for long)

Music and lights tried and although he likes the light no difference. I don't think over tired as even if had long 2.5 hour sleep at home makes no diff and he is at daycare two days and often has thre hours there. Only successful evenings recently is when had been so tired (less than hour asleep) has fallen asleep feeding - he then will wake 40 mins later but is easy to resettle. But it seems unfair to let him.get that tired and just moves problem to daytime as not much nap break for me either.

I will look up salycates as no idea, but he is a great eater and have mucked around with tea time trying to increase time between that and bedtime to no avail. Sometimes he is practically dragging me to room to lay down and feed and can see he is tired but perks up post feed and just increases my confinement to room tonight started bedtime at 6:15.

Neither of us have backs that can cope with moving DD so can't really start her elsewhere we have tried letting her stay up a bit if she isn't exhausted but so far he has still been awake when time for her to sleep.

Very reluctant to reintroduce cot as I really struggle with the lifting in and out and can't get him to lay down in it without lifting him down. I think would choose the evening nap over the back and neck issues to honest.

No idea why in day he will fall asleep feeding no prob but at night he won't. DH was trying to work out difference - and why settles in stroller so well and I think in stroller he knows can't move so just gives in. In bed he won't even have blanket or doona on him - and you can't tie them down to bed :-). Have thought about maybe letting him go to sleep in stroller and transferring but not sure if want to start that path.

[Chocaholic]

If the last feed is energising him, can you change it to water and see if that makes a difference? Maybe have a light snack as well if he is hungry

[mummajj]

Oh that's hard we were having the same problem with DS. It was taking me lying down in our bed with him and waiting til he fell asleep. It used to be really fast but then he started messing around (standing up,talking,wanting to read more booms etc) i was getting really angry at losing my evening too.
We decided to get strict on bedtime. So we put him in his toddler bed in his room and would walk out leaving door semi open.each time he got out we would put him back in bed and say goodnight. This went on for almost 2 hours the first night. But there was no crying, only a bit of grumbling. The second night he only got out of bed twice, and the third night he did t get out of bed once!!! We were so shocked. But now either of us can put him to bed which was one of the main drivers to Doing this cos we have a new baby on the way. And he runs to bed, we read a book and that's it. Mind you there r the nights when he's a bit too wired to nod off straight away if he's had an exciting day for example. We started doing it when DS was about 22 months and wondered y we didn't sort it out sooner!
I really hope you find something that works for you.

[Chocaholic]

Also, do you read to him? If so, what we did was get a reference book on dinosaurs and read that after a kids book. They loved dinosaurs but the book sent them to sleep as it included measurements etc which they had no interest in

[wysiwyg]

I might try feeding him early and then try water at bedtime - I did try water in a bottle to see if sucking on a bottle would help settle him but he just squirts it (has never taken a bottle) and gets bed all wet. He is such a hungry thing both for milk and food. He seems to wake starving in the morning for breakfast - just like me really.

Dollyroux - the laptop thing - well we don't have a laptop but I doubt would work as has never fallen asleep in front of TV - won't sit still for long enough I think - that would have worked for DD for sure - he is the opposite of her in so many ways - has ants in his pants!

Chocaholic - Yes we read lots of books to him, he is a book maniac like his sister and is always bringing over books for us to read, and happily listens to books I am reading for DD (if is just me doing bedtime routine - normally DH reads to DD while I am feeding him) - maybe will try a more boring book - and reading it for longer - maybe won't shorten the overall going to bed time in the beginning but might be less frustrating.

Mummajj - I suppose one of the things is not sure really what should expect of a 17 month old in a bed - DD went in at 22 months and was easy peasy - I do try the leaving thing but can only do it after DD is asleep or she starts wailing too (despite her not needing us ever before) but I can't get out of the room before he is out of the bed! I must admit I haven't tried doing it for 2 hours though.

[HotI]

We spent hours lying next to DD waiting for her to go to sleep, and had the frustration along with it. I don't have a failsafe solution, it is still a work in progress here too, but we had some success (especially when we have the energy to be consistent) in getting her settled in bed, 3 books etc, and then leaving for progessively longer periods, but returning before dd got up or started mucking up or getting upset.

At first, it was only getting up from the chair and then sitting back down again. Then, saying 'just need to get something' and be back in a few seconds. slowly extending the time, but returning before chaos hit or it all started again. SHe got lots of (calm) kisses for staying in bed. She could read or play with her teddy or whatever, cos i think she needs that to wind down, but she learnt she could do this without us sitting there.

i think you said he wa on a mattress on the floor. Maybe having him in a bed would create a bit more of a barrier between in bed and out, and so he would have to do more to get out? DD was in a bed at that age with a safety barrier and a step for her to get in and out. To get out though, she had to climb down the end of the bed and then on to the step, so it gave us a bit more time to 'catch' her in bed,

ok, kids calling....

[wysiwyg]

HotI - interesting point about bed - problem being room. The trundle we have is no higher than mattress and we have bunk beds with DD in bottom - plan was he would be in trundle until she can go on top bunk. I did try him in her bed once thought could swap them but he just walked around on bed instead and climbed out no problem ( I suspect he would climb out cot now too - I know my brother did at this age) maybe need to try a few nights in row.

If he would play I would be happy have tried various diff things try to create an attachment to and wind down not much success. Is just that last moment he needs to get over and give in as he does wind down but then won't let go at end which in someways is more frustrating as you think is nearly there and then is on go again and a bit rejuvenated by the 15 mins of stillness!!

DD didnt walk till 19 months but slept great there were times I would have traded the sleeping for walking/more physical activity - I guess am getting my wish now :-)

[onthefly]

Both my kids have done this at roughly similar ages. I think it was a transition period, where they were learning to settle themselves to sleep, but it took quite a while for them to finally get there. DS would take 2+ hours, DD only about 1 hour, but it still sucks!
DS got over it just over 2 - since then he's been a brush teeth-read books-kiss goodnight kid. No magic remedy I'm afraid, he just got there developmentally. DD still isn't there and I wish there were a magic bullet! (Or that she would accept daddy at bedtime, at least).

I manage it: If she's being silly or violent, I tell her I have to leave and do so. I'll come back when you're ready to sleep. She calls me back after a while, all contrite. And we do this over and over, till she finally just rolls over and goes to sleep. Feeding to sleep at bedtime stopped working ages ago, so I cut out the bedtime feed completely some months ago as it was just getting annoying. She's still in the room with me as she still often wakes at night and I don't want to have to get up to her.

Good luck!

[Dollyroux]

Hmmm - I know you said that you and DP can't lift DD to transfer - would she walk without much issue from her bed to yours and still go back to sleep? Thinking you might have to go a few nights of leaving the room when he gets silly (is this something that would work for him?) and then returning when he is lying down/calm/quiet? Might be initially a longer process but should become much quicker with time? Don't know if that's an option that would work/you are comfortable with?

Other thoughts - I know my sister used to lie on the floor/doorway until her DS fell asleep - would leave if he wasn't lying down/being silly etc. Initially it took over an hour plus and then reduced. Don't know if that could work either?

[wysiwyg]

Well since this thread have had about 50% better nights and 50% the same, with no idea what makes a difference and what doesn't. He has got some teeth coming through so maybe that is contributing. Water in a bottle seems to help 50% of time. The nights he is better at going down he seems to be more active (e.g. climbing all over, trying to stand on his head) when he wakes over night (quicker he goes to bed greater chance of wake up) - so maybe he just needs to get out of his system. Who knows! Hasn't seemed to bother me as much past week or so - maybe because we have finished watching the series of 24 we were watching :-) I also have realized if I plan to do housework (washing up in the main) once he is asleep, he seems to go to sleep quicker than if have planned to do something fun - so maybe will just save washing up for when he is in bed - that seems as likely to work as anything :-)

[Butterfly Dawn]

Does dd have day sleeps? my DD was like this from about 15mths and I ended up really resenting bedtimes, so we dropped her day sleep and picked up a firm night routine, dinner 5-5.30, small run around with her brothers then 6.15 bath/ shower and bed time story, milk and sleep (with a dummy) shes normally out like a light. If she has a day sleep we need to adjust for a later bed time

[wysiwyg]

Yes he has a daysleep - I really think he needs one - 18 months sounds young for him to not need one to me. Also at daycare they would never keep he him up they only start dropping day sleeps there when get to 2.5 to 3 at the earliest - he is there 2/3 days a week. I do like to be led by him and normally he takes my hand and leads me to his room in the day when he wants to sleep - so I think trying to avoid it I would just be moving the bedtime problem to having him be problematic because he is tired in the day.

Tonight we tried dancing after tea and he has gone down well - maybe need to get all the movement out of him right before bed.

[MummyNaomi]

Tonight we tried dancing after tea and he has gone down well - maybe need to get all the movement out of him right before bed.

I remember when we first got our trampoline we would let DS bounce up a storm after dinner/before bed, he'd always fall asleep real quick -so this theory has some merit. Perhaps an activity like this ongoing will work for your DS?