How to encourage older children to fall asleep independently?

[HotI]

I have a 3.5 yr old and almost 2 yr old. Currently, they are held or sat with until they fall asleep. This is usually a long process.

I would really like to change it. We have had some success over last few weeks, individually (one or other in bedroom with a parent just being present but not active), but when it comes to getting both to sleep in their room at the same time it is much harder.

dh is a shift worker, so i am often doing nights by myself, and i have #3 coming soon.

Anybody else parent their kids to sleep into toddler/preschool age and then transition them to independent falling asleep?

[wysiwyg]

I was just discussing this with DH - DS is 2.5 nearly, and he needs to be "monitored" till he goes to sleep, or he creates hell with DD, or screams - he takes forever to go to sleep some nights despite being really tired, but he just fights and fights it - he only goes to sleep easily if is over-tired if hasn't had a proper day nap, and often if he is over-tired then he wakes up overnight. Also I can't limit his sleep at daycare as he would never last long enough to get home have tea etc when I am working.

DD we never had this issue with.

We are going to try bribery - that is only thing have come up with, he seems to get that concept so will see how it goes.

[NicNac]

We have a 3.5 yr DD that we used to stay with till she went to sleep. We also have a 1 yr DS and, theoretically, they room share.
When DS came along, DD was in the process of dropping her day sleep (still not entirely dropped) so a couple of months ago we grabbed the opportunity to discuss DD going to sleep by herself with her. I think at 3, she was old enough to understand what we were saying and go cold turkey. She did it the first couple of nights no problems (we gave her heaps of praise for doing so, got nanna to comment on it etc etc), but then she started to jack up a bit about it. We were pretty firm about her going to sleep by herself, and only very occasionally has DH sat with her for five minutes only to get her to settle down a bit.
It all seems to run quite smoothly if she hasn't slept during the day, if she has slept we put her back to bed 100 times.
The other catch is that she mainly goes to sleep in our bed, and we transfer her later or she stays in that bed (I sleep in her room with DS cause he still feeds at night). To be honest, it's a work in progress, mainly because we play musical beds here. Not sure what we will do with DS later (we rock him to sleep) as they go to bed at the same time and I can't imagine that running smoothly- we will probably stick with the going to sleep in different rooms. I have bought a star projector and am thinking we might give it a try to help DS self settle and it may help us getting them to sleep together....

[Teeki]

DD is 2.5 and usually goes to sleep with DH reading books to her. If she asks for me she likes me to sing to her. At this stage there is no way known that she'd go to bed awake, on her own, and fall asleep by herself. Honestly I don't see how or when that will happen, but she's been the one to lead so far - no more breastfeeding to sleep, and going straight to her room instead of starting in ours.

The times she takes way too long and I just cannot sing anymore, I tell her I'm tired, I need sleep and so I'm going to close my eyes and she can go to sleep. She does go to sleep, but sometimes it takes a while. I guess one day it'll just be one book, one song, then sit with her til she's asleep, and one day she won't need that.Will

For me right now nights on my own aren't too bad as DS is usually asleep on the boob while I sing to DD. Ask me about this when he's older and it may be a whole different kettle of fish. But my ideal is still reading/singing to them til they're asleep then transferring one.

Good luck, I hope you find something that works for you.

[Ca Plane Pour Moi]

We transitioned to Mama-assisted to Liebling alone sleep at about 3.5, as he wouldn't sleep with me there. I did it with coffee.

After cream, medicine, story and prayers I would turn off the light and say "Mama is just going to have a coffee, I'll be back when I've finished."

I would go back when he called out, drink in hand, to show it was a real reason.

He put himself to sleep within 10 mins 9 nights out of 10. Rarely awake after my coffee.

Depending on the child, this may work earlier for you.

[JLeigh29]

DS, 3.5, is a bit of a rare case...he used to go to sleep independently from about 18 months til just before 3yo (one day he just told us to go away and put himself to sleep from then on!) but after an interstate move/transition to big bed/who knows what else, he decided he needed help again. DH used to lie with him til he fell asleep, then gradually over a few months transitioned to sitting with him (no interaction), to standing next to the bed, to standing at the door. He now stands at the door, mostly out of view. We explained that once DH has put him to bed, told him his story, had a cuddle etc, he would stand at the door. He won't answer if you call out, and will put you straight back to bed with no talking if you get up. DS was old enough to understand this and has been really good about it. We can't just leave him, but DH can leave the doorway just before he falls asleep. Takes about 10 mins.

Our problem is the night wake ups - he comes in several times and wants DH to put him back to bed and wait at the door. We talk every day about Daddy only staying for 1 min, but he usually ends up staying til he falls asleep again. It's usually only 5 mins, but long enough for DH to have trouble getting back to sleep

[trishalishous]

DD is 3.5 and listens to an audio book in bed now, while DS (18 months) is boobed to sleep.

[Artechim]

On the evening after DD2 was born we realised that there was no way that we could maintain sitting with DS, DD1 and deal with the baby, so DH went into DS's room and told him if he went to sleep by himself for three nights in a row then he could go to the shop and pick anything that he wanted as a reward. Worked! He had just turned 4 at that stage though, so a bit older than your kids and we had done the prep of leaving the room to go to the toilet/do a job before returning to help him go to sleep so he was used to being alone in there. DD2 was only 2 and a bit when she started sleeping independently - we were on holiday and she was in a shared room with DS and I actually had to go to the toilet so I left them, then I could hear them happily chattering so I didn't go back in and she was fine. We kept it up after we got home. She has been my best night sleeper.

[HotI]

Neither child has a day sleep, and haven't for a long time. On the rare occasion they do (in the car), then bedtime is way later.

DD was 21 months when DS was born. Feeding to sleep had stopped working during the pregnancy, and we had moved to cuddles on the couch to then DD falling asleep in her bed with one of us sitting next to her or laying next to her. We were also able to leave for a few minutes and come back and then extend the gap and eventually she was asleep. Over time, and as the baby needed more assistance at 'bedtime', DD more often fell asleep out on the couch where i was helping DS. She also began feeding to sleep again, which was a lovely way to reconnect, when days were a bit tough with a refluxy/colicky little brother.

If DS doesn't stir her up, she is ok with cuddles on the couch then head to bed and we read a few books. She will keep telling us that she is not tired, (we are working on relaxation methods with her) but is ok with DH saying he is just going to make a cuppa and will come back. She is less accomodating with me leaving, but getting there. She got a 'chapter book' (one of the faraway tree books) for christmas, and as they have few pictures i ask her to lie down while i read or i will have to stop reading. She doesn't fall asleep while i read, but it does help to get her calm. It still takes her over an hour to fall asleep after we go to the bedroom.

DS also stopped breastfeeding to sleep during my pregnancy, although he still likes to have a drink of water when getting ready for sleep. He shares a room with DD. He still comes into our room to sleep for the second half of the night around 80% of the time (another thing that will be difficult with #3). He weaned completely during the pregnancy, and has some food intolerances (dairy) and eczema and some gut issues , but much improved since he was a baby. On the nights i have tried to get him to sleep by himself in his bed, i read books and then sit next to his bed. He then jumps around and kicks the walls .... I moved to the door, sat on the floor and said i would come back when he had settled down. He jumped for awhile, then came over to me and signed "come with me". I went over and he got back in bed but then started the wiggling/jumping again. I moved back to the door. After another 5 minutes, he yawned, signed "come" again, and then lay down on his bed and with me sitting next to him he fell asleep. So again, at least an hour from going to the room to sleep.
DH will pat him to sleep on the bed, and this will help him to sleep quicker, but i find that quite difficult (low bed, and it hurts my hands) and i don't think i will be able to do that every time when i have a newborn, particularly if the baby is high needs, as the other two have been.

When i try to combine the two kids in their beds, there is chaos. I have tried reading to both on one bed, which sometimes will work (if book engages DS) but often they kick, hit, cuddle... each other. Trying to get them to stay on their own beds, just leads to disharmony and it's not how i want them to go to sleep, and doesn't leave me relaxed, which is kinda the whole point of trying to get them to sleep.

DD would love for DS to sleep in her bed, but i don't think DS is keen. He much prefers mum and dad s bed.

I have been reluctant to introduce electrical audio tools at bedtime (tried when DD was young and it seemed to spark her up), but maybe one on a timer would be worth trying for DD now.

I wonder whether i need to work on DD alone, and just suck it up with DS needing us for a bit longer. Last night, was trying both kids at one time with DH and i tagging in, but keeping both kids in the bedroom. I read books and then lay on the floor (i was tired ok ). My theory was as long as they were in their room, eventually they would go to their beds, and once they realised it wasn't that rough they might start to enjoy it. Eventually, however i got jack of it and said they didn't have to go to sleep, but they had to stay in their room, and i headed out to lounge. Cue crying.... children wandering out to hall. DH took them back and got them to bed, but was also tired and not up to it last night. Comes back to to get drink, and both kids come back. Both taken back to bed. DD stays in bed with threats, but DS crying in hall. Doesn't want DH, only Mum. I walk him back to bed and he lies down. I sit on floor with head on bed until i think he is asleep (20 mins?). Walk back to lounge. He wanders out again. I give up and he crawls up on couch and falls asleep with his head on my leg (5 mins?). DH then carries him down to bed.

Oh yeah, i am not meant to be carrying either child at the moment due to tummy issues (muscle separation and hernia), which has been another motivator to get them to fall asleep in their own beds rather than on the couch.

I think about trying to just focus on DD, but i can't just leave DS or suspend him. I know DD will (should) be more tired when she starts kinder, and hopefully this will help with her falling asleep. If she is calm in bed, i can then work on DS in his bed too.

It was nice to see posts to see that i am not alone, and i found many similarities in your stories.

[Eenee]

Drug them? Lol JUST JOKING

With DD she hope in our bed and she wants me to sit there with her but she never falls asleep when I'm there only if I leave after awhile so I say I'm just going to have a shower and I'll be back (our bed is right near the ensuite so can see me from there as I leave the door open). And if she's still not asleep (most occasions lol) then I sit there and then say "I've just got to feed DS" or "just got to get a drink of water and I'll be back" and then don't come back and she will fall asleep. If however she calls out because I haven't come back I say "oh sorry mummy forgot or got busy or something" you will find you will be able to feed #3 whilst sitting with them

[Jellyfish]

With DD1 she fed to sleep till she weaned which was 3yr 3mo, the last six months were quite the juggle as I was tandem feeding with DD2 but it was quicker and easier than the alternatives so held on as long as we could. She then decided to wean so we had to do something else, we transitioned to books, backrubs and singing but it was taking longer and longer so we started doing what TFB did but with dishes instead "I just have to go do the dishes then I'll be right back in" and that worked, she was always asleep after I'd done the dishes. This was sometime around 3.5-4 and has worked since (now almost 5). DD2 is about to turn 2 and still fed to sleep and will be till she weans, it's easiest but we will probably do similar to the progression with DD1 when the time comes.

[Snacks]

Thanks for this thread, HotI. I'll be looking closely at all the ideas herein.
I am begging, bargaining, trying all the tricks I possibly can to deal with P's falling asleep at night. I feel your pain! Last night she was awake until 10 - sooooo overtired but wouldn't stay in bed. At that stage I was able to cuddle her to sleep, but... hello! 10pm!! I was ready for bed myself!
I hope things click for yours soon. x

[AnyDream]

Around the age of 3-4, my DD developed an interest in stories and reading. She is very happy to lie in bed with a dim light on and listen to audio books or "read" one of her books.

[No.5]

DS is now 6 but until last year he wouldn't sleep unless someone was sitting with him & only on the couch. Now we've moved DD into his room so he will sleep in there and I feed DD to sleep on the lounge while he is in bed going to sleep himself. He is bribed to stay in his room all night though because he kept coming into our bed every night which got frustrating. Once in a while I don't mind, but every night when we've only just got our bed back is annoying.

DS does watch DVDs to go to sleep though as when I was working, that's the only way DH could get him to sleep (he was fed to sleep until almost 3)!

[~clover~]

DS is now 6 but until last year he wouldn't sleep unless someone was sitting with him & only on the couch. Now we've moved DD into his room so he will sleep in there and I feed DD to sleep on the lounge while he is in bed going to sleep himself. He is bribed to stay in his room all night though because he kept coming into our bed every night which got frustrating. Once in a while I don't mind, but every night when we've only just got our bed back is annoying.

DS does watch DVDs to go to sleep though as when I was working, that's the only way DH could get him to sleep (he was fed to sleep until almost 3)!

Glad i'm not the only one with an older, older one who won't sleep alone I should be trying to teach DD3 to go to sleep herself... but the almost 6 year old needs to learn as well I plan to move DD3 back into his room to see if that helps. But he's refusing to sleep on the top bunk as well, so that means pulling 2 sets of bunks apart! The bunks in DD2&3's room split into singles. The ones in DS's room don't. He was ok to go alone if he took the dog, left the light on & shut the door (to keep the dog in)... but now that's not good enough :/

Been wanting to do it for a while, but its such a big job! Neither of them slept til 11pm last night, because I was trying to get school orders done online (& personally just didn't want to go sit between them both again).

Maybe a rewards system will work? *sigh*

[No.5]

Glad i'm not the only one with an older, older one who won't sleep alone I should be trying to teach DD3 to go to sleep herself... but the almost 6 year old needs to learn as well I plan to move DD3 back into his room to see if that helps. But he's refusing to sleep on the top bunk as well, so that means pulling 2 sets of bunks apart! The bunks in DD2&3's room split into singles. The ones in DS's room don't. He was ok to go alone if he took the dog, left the light on & shut the door (to keep the dog in)... but now that's not good enough :/

Been wanting to do it for a while, but its such a big job! Neither of them slept til 11pm last night, because I was trying to get school orders done online (& personally just didn't want to go sit between them both again).

Maybe a rewards system will work? *sigh*

DS often is drifting off around 10pm. He goes to bed at 6:30-7 which is ridiculous! He has been better the past week since he's been in his own room and is usually asleep by 8:30-9 but still later than I'd like!

We use bribery A LOT with DS. Thinking of doing a sticker chart up though to try and cut the bribery down..

[feeb]

DS1 is 5 and DS2 is 4 and I have to sit with them EVERYNIGHT until they fall asleep, they carry on get up, need a drink, need the toilet etc etc and stall with what ever they can think of. Lots of yelling many nights to get back into bed etc. Some nights I will put lullabies on my phone from youtube. It gets really really annoying as they goo to bed at 1930 but some nights I don't get out of there till 2230.

We have tried rewards charts
Bribary
Separate room
Separate bed times
later bed times/earlier bed times

[HotI]

well we have had some good days and some bad days, but I think we are moving in right direction. surprisingly, DS is doing much better than DD. if I can leave DD in the lounge, DS will happily kiss her and DH and wave goodbye and then walk down to the bedroom. we read 2 to 3 books and on a good night he will fall asleep in under half an hour.

if dd comes down, or the planets are out of alignment then it takes way longer, or I give up after more than an hour.

dd is bit trickier,(I'm not tired or sleepy), but somedays is less combative at bedtime. still working on best method for when I am solo