HPV vax

[~clover~]

DD is in year 8 & I've just received the forms for the HPV/MMR/varicella vax.

I've already said no for all 3. I would like more info though. I have no interest in using my daughter as a crash test dummy for the HPV. There's no way in hell I'll take that risk. I will educate her on practicing safe sex & having a pap smear every 2 years when it comes time. I've already brought safe sex up with her & told her why she won't be getting it. If she chooses to as an adult, it's her choice.

I am a vaxxer though. All my kids are fully vaccinated, including begrudgingly, the chicken pox/varicella, except DD1 & 2 has natural immunty. DD2 contracted chicken pox at 6 months old. I assume DD1 carried it into the home & passed it on, but didn't have symptoms herself.

Now MMR. I had a rubella booster at 12. At 24, 12 years later, I still had immunity to rubella. So I'm wondering how needed this booster is? I realise everyone is different. I also had german measels as a baby, so maybe I have life time immunity from way back then?

Would it be crazy of me to ask for a blood test to check my kids immunity before any further vaccinations? If I decide to go ahead with the MMR vax for DD1, I will have my local GP do it. I don't want to take the risk of whoever does it at the school (3 hours away) to accidentally give her a dose of the gardasil if I approve the MMR. And I really feel it's unnecessary to have the varicella. She's been around chicken pox since & never contracted it. The same as her aunt & grandmother.

So I'm looking for opinions & information. Weather you vax or not. On all 3 of the 10-15 year old vaccinations. Will I have to be a conscientious objector if I don't have the HPV done? Given the type of disease, the way it's spread I really don't see how they can make it compulsory...

[Trillian]

I didn't have to be a CO when DS1 had the consent forms come home from school (he is at boarding school too), I just didn't sign them and told the school he wasn't having them. No dramas from them about it either. Though you do get the run of the mill 'your child will be excluded if there is an outbreak' but I'm OK with that. I'll not be consenting when DD1 gets her forms sent out too. The only one I did consent to was the tetanus booster because he spends a lot of time at the school sheep yards and farm as well as sheep shows and in terms of a risk assessment, he's got a far greater chance of getting tetantus than he does Hep B or bloody HPV.

I don't think the CO thing is as big a deal for the older kids as it is the younger ones. Honestly, I think the HPV vaccine is a load of codswallop but that's a rant for another day Go with your gut on this - if you think it will make it easier for you to make a decision if you know for sure what their immunity status is, then get her tested.

[AlligatorsMum]

can I ask what the issue witht he HPV vaccine is? I was in my 20s when it came out and have had it, just was told to go get it by mum and did.

Just genuinely curious?

[Ca Plane Pour Moi]

I agree with you about the hpv vax, and I am pro vaxing. Mostly because of the current outcomes. Here's my reasoning:

It is a vaccination against a few strains of hpv, a virus. Viruses mutate quickly.

The shot does not prevent HIV, which I have heard people say.

The shot is not to stop cervical cancer, just to stop some viruses found in 40% of cervical cancers. Not sure if this is a causal relationship or not. But some girls think you don't need smear tests any more.

The "immunity" (which vaccinations are not guaranteed to provide) is thought to last til the mid 20s only, but no studies available yet to prove this. A lot of people are still out having fun at this age.

Best thing, imo, is to insist on condoms for casual sex. That will stop the hpv and other infections.

If you don't trust the school for the MMR booster only (we were checked for immunity before we had this at my school!), I'd go to the gp for it. We don't have chicken pox vax where I live, but we are all immune now. I would get it for another child, seeing how bad it was for my DS, still badly scarred 5 years later, which I wouldn't have done before.

[Tinks]

I am also a pro vaxer but declined the HPV vax for my daughters. I just ticked the 'I do not consent' box. There were no further questions from anyone.

Just to add - I declined the HPV vax but agreed to the other ones, except chicken pox because they had all had it.

[~clover~]

Thanks all. I'm ok with the mmr booster. I didn't see tetanus mentioned though.

Alligatorsmum - first of all, the bad reactions I've heard about. From just feeling sick, to MS like symptoms, to unexplained deaths with in weeks of the vaccine. I only know of 2 friends who've had the vax done. One didn't have any issues, other than some serious pain in the whole arm it was done in, the second felt very sick after the first, but continued to have the other 2 injections.

My sil was in the age group to be in the first few lots of kids injected. The kids had all kinds of issues. From pain to fainting.

It 'may' prevent 2 of around 13 different strains of the HPV virus. As far as I'm aware this is a sexully transmitted disease. It is not spread by breathing on or touching a person. Those who've had cervical cancer have a higher rate of having had the HPV virus in the past, but they can't actually link the two together & it is unknown if it will reduce the number of people diagnosed with cervical/vaginal cancer until about 15 years down the track. So there's around another 7-8 years before they can even compare, & no one will be able to prove the links anyway.

Pap smears will still need to be done every 2 years regardless, & if you practise safe sex, what are the chances of contracting an STI? Education is just as important, if not more, than prevention.

So why would I inject my daughter with something that has been shown to cause such drastic side effects, when all they can do is HOPE it works.

If she decides to have it done when she's older, that's ok by me. But I will hope that she takes it on herself to actually do some reasearch & make an informed decision.

I'm just not ok with 'fad vax's', that are suddenly rushed through the system because we all might suddenly die, so the testing hasn't been carried out properly. I think there was a vax brought in for swine flu wasn't there? Or bird flu? One of them. Where are they now?

I also really don't get the flu vax itself, except for the more vulnerable, like the elderly. My kids are quite healthy. They might get the one flu that they can be immunised against, but chances are they'll get one of the other possible 10 strains of flu going around at any one time.

[*TripleJ*]

I had the HPV vax but was told because I was already 20 something there was a high chance I'd probably already have it but I only got the first one coz I was violently ill after getting it

I delayed vax for DD coz DS had a bad reaction when he was 12 months but she's 4 and will be up to date in March I won't be consenting for my kids to have the HPV vax not after the reaction I had

[Trillian]

I agree with you about the hpv vax, and I am pro vaxing. Mostly because of the current outcomes. Here's my reasoning:

It is a vaccination against a few strains of hpv, a virus. Viruses mutate quickly.

The shot does not prevent HIV, which I have heard people say.

The shot is not to stop cervical cancer, just to stop some viruses found in 40% of cervical cancers. Not sure if this is a causal relationship or not. But some girls think you don't need smear tests any more.

The "immunity" (which vaccinations are not guaranteed to provide) is thought to last til the mid 20s only, but no studies available yet to prove this. A lot of people are still out having fun at this age.

Best thing, imo, is to insist on condoms for casual sex. That will stop the hpv and other infections.

This is my reasoning too. They market it as a 'cervical cancer vaccine' which leads people to believe that it is a vaccine to prevent cervical cancer. It's not. It never has been, but clever marketing by Big Pharma and the media hype have blurred the lines a lot so that people think that it is. Because who doesn't want a 'vaccine' for cancer? There have been too many deaths and side effects from it for me to consider it safe for my children. And there is just not a strong enough link between HPV and cervical cancer to prove conclusively that one causes the other. HPV is common enough that of course you'd expect to see it in some women who get cervical cancer. It's a major logic fail. If you get it, that's your choice, but it's not one I'm comfortable making.

[~clover~]

Exactly Trill. Nothing about it sits right with me. It's called 'the cervical cancer vaccine' in every conversation when brought up. My friend had stage 4 cervical cancer, which is why my other friend had the vax. Friend that was sick from first injection had had abnormal cells at a previous pap smear, which is the sole reason she got it. She only had 2 weeks left before she'd have to pay for it. I tried yesterday to tell her it in no way will prevent cancer, but she really had no interest in knowing.

[Hetty]

I got it. It helps prevent cervical cancer because it protects you from the strains of HPV which most commonly cause cervical cancer. There's three strains and they cause most cervical cancers. I don't know why any woman wouldn't reduce their risk. Each to their own I guess. You can educate your children about safe sex but what if they make a mistake? And get cancer from one of those three strains? I know it's a slow cancer but pre-cancers are pretty yucky to treat with biopsys and lasers.. Yick!

[Ca Plane Pour Moi]

Hetty, there's no proof the STD causes cancer. There's not even that strong a causal relationship. You are not safe from cervical cancer. Yes, you can fight a few strains of HPV more quickly, but you are not immune to cancer.

I'm interested if anyone has done a follow up study on the vaccine and sexual behaviour risk. Not to say those with the vaccine are doing things wrong, nor those without the vaccine, just curious as to how the vax and perceived risk affect sexual and contraception choices.

[Hetty]

What do you mean? There is proof that HPV causes cancer. I know I'm not safe from it, I didn't say I was. I said it reduces risk. Two of the strains it immunises you against cause 80% of cervical cancer. It also immunises you against two more strains (four in total).

As for sexual behaviour risk... there are so many more STIs out there that I doubt it would make people more promiscuous.

[Ca Plane Pour Moi]

There's been a virus found in some cancers. It has not been found in others. We could look at people having oral sex with cold viruses and cancer and form a link if we wanted. There's a positive correlation between organic food sales and diagnoses of autism, doesn't mean organic food causes autism.

There has, to my knowledge, been no study where an animal has been infected then the cervix studied and biopsied for cancer. So no proof of cause. Just a link, a positive correlation, a graph. Not proof.

And I am interested in a study about sexual risk not for promiscuity or judgement or anything like that, just curious how it or if it changes behaviour in a large cohort. But then that is very much going back to my research roots.

[Hetty]

Okay....well.... I'm inclined to agree with doctors and scientists so we'll just have to agree to disagree.

[AlligatorsMum]

It's a really interesting read. It def was explained to me nearly 10 years ago when I got it as the cervical cancer vaccine. And having a brother that was going thru cancer - it doesn't surprise me that my mom wanted us to get it. You trust doctors and information you get at face value. I'm fortunate I guess looking back now that I and my sister had no side effects at all.

I've only ever had one partner (my now husband) but still get regular pap smears and check ups - I guess mainly cuz I want to know early if anything is changing. I def never thought that was a cure to ever getting cancer.

Cancer is to fickle - no ones is safe from it unfortunately. How I wish there was a vaccine for cancer!

[Ca Plane Pour Moi]

I am a scientist, who has worked in medical research including clinical trials and has a medical related degree. This does not stand up to scrutiny.

I have also studied stats at Uni for two of my qualifications and it really is not good.

However, you have made your decision with information that you trust and good for you. There is nothing wrong with you making a choice I disagree with! In fact, it's great that this allowed and we can discuss it. I just know many doctors and how advertising sways a lot of people, which is why I research a lot, then get overly vocal about sharing my research. I apologise wholeheartedly if you felt I was having a go at you, it really was not my intention.

Love and hugs and backing off to get on with some paid work...

[Hetty]

I am not offended in the slightest. You are a minority in the medical and scientific communities and must face this kind of thing all the time.

My brother is studying law. He has lecturers (obviously with relevant university degrees) who are promoting socialism, communism and anarchy. There are always minorities in academic communities and maybe sometimes they're right. As long as their opinions aren't dangerous there's no issue.

[Trillian]

Hetty, I think your original post in this thread is quite rude and, dare I say it, arrogant. The tone of your posts suggests that those of use who choose not to inject our DD's with it are somehow ignorant because we choose not to 'believe' Doctors and scientists like you do. How do you know that we don't? Maybe we're just 'believing' different doctors and scientists. If the pharamacuetical industry wasn't worth billions of dollars, I'd be more likely to believe them too, however I choose to maintain a healthy scepticism in the face of doubt. Even the doctors and scientists that you are believing also say that not all cervical cancer is caused by it. People can make statistics say whatever they want to say. Unless someone gives me 100% irrefutable proof that HPV causes cervical cancer, then I might consider it, but until that point in time I have made a fully educated and informed decision which is not for you to mock or judge. You have made your choice and I have made mine.