The boy has breached the Undertaking

[AliBaby]

I get what you girls are saying but seeming this boy and his mother have now put in to the courts about Dianne and her DS I would want as much evidence to get a restraining order against him. I dont think any teenage boy or any person wants someone saying **** about them and defaming them around people that are common peers. Bullying is on of those things that even with Dianne's DS blocking and deleting him, this kid is still going to find a way to get to him unless something is done by the court. From Dianne's other threads, this kid is definitely no angel and needs to be dealt with by the courts. The only way to do this is to have evidence. Written evidence is alot clearer and harder to argue against that a he said, she said conversations. Just my opinion

[LimeSlice]

Again though BB, he can say whatever he likes about any one he pleases on his own page, so long as it is not inciting violence.

So given that this 'quiz' was not postd on Diane's wall, her DS's wall or sent to him, then it can't be used as anything other than someone expressing an opinion - it isn't bullying because someone says something nasty about you - it has to be directed TO you.

So long as Diane and her DS have not said or done anything to warrant an intervention order that the woman is seeking, it doesn't matter. Diane has evidence against the boy already, and if Diane's DS has in fact not done anything to inflame the situation or said anything in retaliation, then there is no need for her to be able to disprove anything.

[PumpkinZulu]

Your opinion is totally valid I just do not see the point in keeping him as a 'friend' on fb; to me it seems illogical and akin to adding gas to the flame. I'm no legal expert so I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure fb lurking is not evidence. I am familiar with the application in question, (at least I believe I am) and it asks generic questions about people on your friends list which you answer in any way you please. This kid does need to be dealt with, I agree, but I'm not sure the court would look all that favourably at evidence that suggest the boy is using a randomized fb application...I'd also think they'd question why you could bother staying 'friends' with him, it just seems more detrimental to all of this than 'useful' or helpful. If the boy is saying mean things about DS, well, he is allowed to, to a certain point. Answering a quizz in a not so nice wayy still seems to me to be within his rights to freedom of speech, unfortunately, as although it was about DS, it was not directed towards him. As LS said, if you cannot see what he is saying, and it is not getting back to DS, it won't affect him.

[AliBaby]

I have recently just recently attended a course about school children, social networking & bullying and this information may surprise you.

It is a very common misconception that people can say whatever they like on their own page about someone else. Defamation does not happen to someones face. If this boy thinks that he can say whatever he likes about someone else on the internt than it’s simply an ignorance of the law. It goes beyond bullying.

Defamation occurs when someone publishes (this isn't just a printed publication but really means saying something in some medium ie. Facebook, my space, twitter, blogs, comments, to two or more people) something that tends to demean another person in the estimation of their peers.

Generally speaking, you are heading for trouble if you publish or otherwise speak about another person in such a way that your expression offends, demeans and generally undermines that person's dignity.

The social web has brought with it a sense that the Internet is a lawless free for all where anyone can say or do anything and so many people (esp teenagers) believe that they are untouchable.

There have been quite a number of cases that have been submisable in court. I will try and find some examples as I dont have my course notes at home with me.

Dianne's DS doesnt have to have him as a friend but it would be helpful to them if they have access to this boys page to see what he is writing about DS while all of this stuff with the courts is going.

[LimeSlice]

I understand what you are saying, but you won't win a defamation case against me simply because I say to someone you know "BB is a crap mum and is ugly" iykwim. Defamation is a civil case, not a criminal offence.

Diane isn't bringing a defamation case, she is seeking an Intervention Order, and simply being unsavoury in answering a quiz on Facebook, unless it is threatening, is not really going to help that case as far as I can see, someone correct me if I am wrong, but unless he threatens him or performs some sort of illegal act, it is irrelevant

ETA: What it does prove is that he is not sincere, not trustworthy and Diane made the right decision in not accepting the offer posed during mediation, so any further offers of such promises should be dismissed without too much more thought.

[diannescruffy]

There is nothing threating about what he posted but one of the conditions of the Undertaking is:

Publishing on the internet, by email or other electronic communication any material about the affected person(s).

To me he has breached this clause.

Regards,
Dianne

[AliBaby]

I think it is relevant if it shows the boys character and I am not saying the quiz itself, more that you want to be able to see what he is doing and saying about DS so that if he does say soemthing threatening or confesses to doing something to Dianne or DS or their home then they will have evidence for this case.

I dont think this boy is going to go away in a hurry. Teenagers can not simply 'block out' what someone is saying about them because they arent reading it or hearing it and it can cause them more harm than good if people say to them 'just ignore it'. Its not something that they are capable or mature enough to do. I would be keeping a file on this kid and including anything and everything relevent to this particular case or not because if it does get worse than Dianne has more ground to stand on.

As for what is admissable in a court, it is considered to be defaming if it falls under one of the below statements:
-An imputation which may tend to cause a person to be hated or despised, or cause them to be treated with contempt by their peers;
-The publication of material that renders a person to ridicule, even if involving humour. The publication of a photograph that contained an optical illusion giving the appearance that someone was guilty of indecent exposure is defamatory;
-Certain caricatures have been held to be defamatory. Determining what is defamatory is notoriously difficult in these matters. The distinction between artistic freedom and defamation will no doubt remain the subject of litigation."

For a defamation action to be successful, it must be established that the communication:-was published to a third person, i.e. to at least one person other than the plaintiff (person/entity defamed).
-identifies the plaintiff, for example, by name or by a reference to a small group of people, etc.
-contains a defamatory statement or imputation (whether intentionally published or not).

[LimeSlice]

There is nothing threating about what he posted but one of the conditions of the Undertaking is:

Publishing on the internet, by email or other electronic communication any material about the affected person(s).

To me he has breached this clause.

Oh, absolutely Diane, it certainly does breach that clause.

[LimeSlice]

I dont think this boy is going to go away in a hurry. Teenagers can not simply 'block out' what someone is saying about them because they arent reading it or hearing it and it can cause them more harm than good if people say to them 'just ignore it'. Its not something that they are capable or mature enough to do.

Sorry, but that statement may be true of some but the blanket statement is just plain wrong. They can block it out, and do it everyday. And those that can't shoudl be taught how to. It is a skill you will need throughout life, not just in high school.

[AliBaby]

Hun, if you were targeted by the same person - being hassled at school, at your home and then through the web and all of your friends and peers hear about it and see it (and at times let it influence their opinion of you or actions towards you), then how can you possibly block it out?

As a teacher, the worst thing that you can say to a child is 'just ignore it'. They cant. It does not solve the problem. In fact, it makes it worse as the person causing the problems gains power knowing they can get away with what they are doing without implication.

[LimeSlice]

I am not saying the only path you take is ignoring it.

I was bullyed badly through primary school and high school, and you HAVE to learn to ignore it - you can't change everything, nor everyone, and the best way to not let it affect you negatively is to learn how to ignore it and box it as what it is - crap from someone who isn't important in your life, and won't be there in a few years anyway.
Been there, done that, so don't condescend to me about bullying and what it is like to be harrassed and targeted.

And they CAN ignore it, and DO ignore it. But it is not the ONLY action you have to take, but it is a huge part of how to deal with bullies. You give them power every time you cry about it, every time you get angry about it, every time you give voice to it. The only way someone can not hurt you is by you not allowing yourself to be hurt (emotionally, mentally - obviously physical assault is different) and the best way to not let yourself get hurt is to learn how to ignore the idiots in the crowd. Wish I had have had someone tell me HOW to ignore it and fight it when I was much younger than what I was when I finally figured it out.

[AliBaby]

by no means was I trying to condescend you Sorry if it came across that way. Not my intention at all.

What I am meaning to say is that as a child being victimised by another child, it is helpful to know that something is going to be done about it. That someone is there to help you and you are not on your own. This helps the child not to be consumed by what is happening in their life that shouldnt be. Yes a child needs to learn how to ignore it but this is a skill that is gradually learnt.

[Just Me]

Dianne - It does sound like a breach of that clause and you do have a point there. If you can, seek legal advice on how to approach it with the court.

This is probably a bit off topic, but ignoring a bully doesn't always stop them and bullying comes in different forms. Bullying that is overt is easy to identify and easy to ignore, but there are other forms of bullying that are more difficult to ignore because they can't be quantified and leave you wondering if what is happening is real. This kind of bullying is much more common in the workplace but it is a valid form of bullying none the less and it is terrible because it messes with your head. It is the subtle put downs in front of work colleagues, being left off group emails, not being invited to crucial meetings, being stripped of duties or even set up to fail - all of which leave the person feeling like they are incompetent and wondering if they are underperforming. The answer may seem simple - to just get out, but because it happens slowly over time, and because it is so hard to identify what is going on, it messes with your self esteem and leaves you feeling like a failure. This form of bullying also makes you look bad in the eyes of other people, which is really hard to ignore when it is people that you are accountable to. I think that a certain element of it does also take place in schools. It is fair more sophisticated than the playground push and shove and name calling, it is psychological bullying and it messes with your self esteem. It takes a pretty strong person to not only identify that it is happening, but to come through it unscathed.

I do think kids need to learn resilience and that there are some things they can ignore, but I also think that all kids are entitled to go to school without fear. They are entitled to go each day knowing that they will be safe and that they are not going to be targetted. Ignoring is not a great strategy because even if they leave you alone, a bully will find another target and the issue has never really been dealt with. Schools need to be safe places and there is a place for identifying bullies and targetting their behaviour. That is only done through kids speaking up and saying it isn't okay.

Having said all that, I think that internet friendships with bullies are not a good idea but I think this is where the more psychological forms of bulling come into it. I don't think teenagers always have the capacity to identify what is going on and as I said earlier, it can be really hard to quanitify some of these behaviours if they aren't overt. If they are lowering other's opinions of you, then it is a form of bullying and it is not okay. I think as much as possible, try not to read stuff that others publish about you, but it does affect other people when they start to see you differently and treat you differently. Not all of those people will be bullying you, but it can mess with your self esteem and it is very dangerous. If bullying was always overtly violent, it would be much easier for people to identify it and the police could lay charges. This is all fairly new ground and there is some research going into it to try and help the laws keep up with the changing trends. They are recognising more and more that there is a lot more to bullying than most people think.