Teenage Girls and sex

If contraception is covered so completely at school, why does the UK have the highest teen pregnancy rate in Europe? Is it because all our 15 year olds are on the Pill but don't know about emotions? Or do they all have D&V bugs all the time? Clearly for all the teaching there is not enough learning. Our children DO NOT know enough about contraception.

I also still cannot see how talking about the Pill seems to be being equated with NOT talking about everything else.

I have come to realise that for me the crux of my irritation is the concept of virginity and it's intrinsic value. I don't believe in that. I don't believe a virgin is better than a non-virgin or that virginity is a state of grace to be maintained. I believe sex in life and in any given relationship should not be entered into until both partners are able to understand the possible repercussions, protect themselves against such and have feelings of love, trust and respect for one another. Whether or not they are virgins is totally irrelevant to me. Losing or saving one's virginity should not, to my mind, be part of the decision.

Ryn it might shock you but i do not spend half my life worring about DP going off with someone else or planning what new exciting thing i can do in bed to prevent it. We love each other, and are lucky enough to be able to express it physically. That is perfectly possible without marriage and sleeping with someone who you don't end up marrying needn't be emotionally damaging at all. Equally the rates of infidelity and divorce are as high as ever so it seems to me it is not the vows which make a difference but the people who said them. Nothing about marriage stops the average cheat cheating, just as nothing about serial monogamy makes a faithful type cheat.

Unless your children are stupid (which given their mother is VERY unlikely) they will know their (also a virgin) partner can't give them STD's and there are contraceptives which can protect them from pregnancy, and you might find the only effect your slide-show has is that when they DO decide to have kids they're terrified.

Lulu2 i can see if i say "want to talk about the Pill?" apropo of nothing she will do a runner, which is why i plan to answer questions openly and honestly the second she starts asking them instead of saying "i'll tell you when you're older" and finding when she IS older that the door is shut.

It is very strange to me that most of us here think that for women to have empowered, fulfilling birth experiences they need to learn about birth from a long time before they become pregnant. Does the same not go for a empowered and fulfilling sexlife?

Bec

Firstly Ryn I think the name calling can stop right here! I am not "Daft" and I dont appreciate you calling me that. Um, your teaching your son "NOW" lmao , at all of 7 months or so old! That is laying the heavies on him at a young age dont you think?, what happend to letting them be children first!You seemed very hung up n this sex thing, I mean , not all women want to marry early in life so does that mean they should not have sex? Bloody ridiculous!

My questioining about what would you do if your child doesnt listen to you was exactly that
"A question" so dont be telling me what sort of a mother I may be, you dont know me at all, you may think your educated and all but you certainly dont know about every person on this forum and everything about life experience either. Yes you ticked me off with your hoyty toty atiitude on such knowledge that you havent even come to yet with a teenager. Its a whole differnet kettle of fish when its your own child, you can continue to predict as much as you like, but you have no idea what sort of personality your child will have in 15 or so years time! Or what the world will be like then either!I wish you all the best of luck in having that picture perfect future for your son and his attitude towards sex I really do, but please dont continue to tell me how it should be, I am not needing anyones negativity, I can handle others experiences with there teens but if you havent got them yet and are telling me how to do it and how not to do it, then I am not sure I want to listen. But if you are genuingly trying to be nice and advice courtisy, then by all means yadda away.


Bec so true!

Oh my Ryn you have such big ideas and plans for your child already, that can only lead to disappointment and him rebelling from you.

Soul don't listen to anyones crappy judgments, I think you are doing a great job and i think you are an inspiration to me on how i want my relationship with my daughters, i would way rather be involved in their decisions by being open and honest and trusting and i just dont get how people who don't have teenagers can tell you what you are doing is wrong I DON'T GET THAT.

You can only imagine what it is like and that would be a far stretch from how it really is.

I think it is utterly disrespectful for anyone to say that you are doing a bad job or that you are daft for choosing to parent the way you are, very rude i believe.

I felt it was a personal attack on you too and i have no idea what Ryn's sex life with her dh has anything to do with it.

Anyway like i said before i think you are doing a great job and my mum was very open with me and we still have a fantastic relationship and lets face it all we can do is guide our children so they can make the best decisions possible and that is exactly what you are doing.

I do not think age matters at all!
Boys mature slowere than girls remember, and if he made that comment 2 years ago, I am sure he has grown up A LOT since then, and probably regrets the comment himself. I met a guy who was 28 when I was 17, and although nothing happened straight away, that was 7 years ago, and that man is now my husband and we have a DS and another on the way. I think age has no relevance at all and it depends on the individual person. As long as this boy treats your DD right! I especially dont think 4 years is a big deal at all!

Gosh. I have just spent the past half and hour reading back to page 3 of the posts (too tired to go back further. Soul, this jumped out at me:

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My daughter and I sat here together and read through this, and she like me shook her head at some of the accusations as me being irresponsebile, and yes that is what some of you were more or less saying. And yet, I am trying to protect my daughter not wrap her up in cotton wool so she does not understand what choices she has out there when the time comes.

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It really struck a chord with me because I don't think that a parent can ever be the font of all wisdom for their child. Either we don't know what do say, haven't been there, have problems with saying it - whatever. My point is I FIRMLY believe it takes a village to raise a child and so if you can expose your child to as many different views and experiences of others as possible, they have more or a chance of making the "right" decision when the time comes (whatever "right" may be).

I say this from the perspective of one who got all my teenage ideas about men and sex from Cosmo and Cleo (hence I have no hangups LOL!!) because my mother didn't ever discuss anything like that with me (I am not having a go at her -she had her reasons). So I went into the world of adults at about age 15 or 16 ready to have sex. There were plenty of situations where it could have eventuated (including with a 33 year old when I was 16 - OMGGGG!!) but it never did. And so when I met my DH and finally DTD with him at 19 years of age he was my first (and only). And I was his first (and only). So I am COMPLETELY aware of the fact that I have no experiences of casual sex, long-term committed but broke up sex, having sex and being dumped or sex with someone who has had previous partners. I am totally clueless. But, as I said, I am very open minded and understand that my way is not for everyone and that it is a sheer fluke that it turned out this way for me.

So Soul when I read your comment about reading this thread with your daughter I think you are doing all you can, and probably much more than most mums.

PS: Just thought I would add - the one thing my mother used to say to me about sex was "I will not accept any illegitimate grandchildren". I reminded her of this when Flynn was born (he's not illegitimate BTW - nasty word - DH and I were married nearly 12 yeasr before he was born) and mum was horrified. As she gazed lovingly at Flynn she said "but I wouldn't really have rejected an illegitimate grandchild - how could I??" I said to her I sure as hell wasn't going to test whether she would LOL!!

Can we stop having a go at me! I have my beliefs, you have yours! Fine.

Yes, I'm generalising... from what I know of REAL LIFE, not from what I hear on fora. Fine, I may only know people who are very different from the people on BB, but it does offer a different perspective. And yes, as everything I do teaches my son something now, by DH and I enjoying a hug and a kiss in front of DS and being faithful to each other does teach him something. I also did not mean "daft" as an insult, just saying that is not what will necessarily happen - something to which I will attribute to language differences and be more careful next time. Also, I didn't call your parenting daft, just your analysis of "if you say no your child will disrespect you" as that won't necessarily happen.

The reason we have high teen pregnancy rates is that kids know the mechanics but not the emotions. We don't know HOW to say "stop and put on a condom". We don't know HOW to go on the Pill. We just get told every day through the TV and magazines that sex is great and only losers don't have sex (again, we don't watch or read that sort of thing in our house, another way of educating DS). We don't get taught that it's OK to say no or insist on contraception, only that contraception is out there. Many teenagers - not all, just many - assume that it just won't happen to them (because they "did it" in the shower, or it was their first time, or they went to the loo afterwards).

Ultimately, you asked me a question, I thought about it and gave you a full answer. You don't like the answer, fine. You don't have to take it.

You know, I have seen things that happen with teenage sex. I have seen what unwanted teen pregnancies do. I have seen men bully girls into sex (men meaning over 18, girls meaning 16 and under). I am planning on educating my children there's nothing wrong with going against the grain and there's certainly nothing wrong with not having sex (despite Soul's earlier claim that it was unhealthy). Fine, they may end up only wearing clothes from one particular shop or whatever, but that doesn't mean I'm not going to at least attempt to show them another way of life. I would love my son to be individual, respectful and a gentleman, but if that doesn't happen I won't love him any less or be disappointed - after all, he's an individual so has as much right to live up to my expectations as to live up to different ones.

My mum was open with me too, we really don't have a great relationship. Talking about sex doesn't ensure our children will tell us the truth either. My experiences come from real life as although I don't have a teenager yet, I do remember my teenage years and various problems arising from underage sex/teen sex which probably has made me very jaded towards it, but that doesn't mean I'm not allowed that opinion.

ah ok

Soul... Seriously, I think what you are doing with your daughter is fantastic... you are making her know that she can talk to you about anything.
From my own personal experience, I was raised to have very very high morals, and to save myself for marriage. I always knew thats what I was going to do. The subject of sex was always based on a married couple when it arose in our household. And when I got to the age of being curious about boys, I knew in myself that I wasn't going to wait until marriage. When I got to a rebelling age, the first thing I did to rebel against my parents was lose my virginity. I was way too young, but I don't regret it. My mum knows all about it. She has since relaxed her thoughts and is much happier with the fact that we can talk to her about everything. It is often a strange experience to have sex discussions with Mum after being raised the way I was, but it is a good thing, and has been very beneficial to my younger sisters and brothers (who have each only had 1 partner).
So keep up the good work Soul, and please don't ever lose the honest, communication with your daughter... at least if something does come up, she knows she can turn to you for advice, rather than some inexperienced and perhaps immature friend. :hug:

Lisa thank you so much, sounds like you too will have this wonderful open , honest relationship with your babes as well.

I too grew up in a very strict household, so not sure why some people are thinking I was free as a bird to have my wild times, I wasnt. My mother was so against sex as she had her own hang ups that she calle dme a **** for just thinking about boys in a sexual way, which teenager do as there hormones are all over the place and no parnet can have control over that emotion! Any my sister was so scared about going ahainst my mothers wishes she went and got the pill ojn her own at 16 and therefore learnt "Nothing" about sex nor the emotions of it. I dont feel you can "Teach" someone how they should feel after they have sex, its a very personal thing, so no matter how much we think we can teach them that its all about the emotional side of it too, you justr cant, its a individual thing, and we all experience that differnetly and I tell my daughter this to.

I was raped at 14 and then met my hubbie and he is the only one I have ever had sex with, so yeah I was such a wild thing!! NOT. So its not like I had multiple partners, I had "ONe" and I am still with him, and it will be 18 years in 3 weeks time! We didnt marry till 8 years ago and whoopty do! Its about love not a damn piece of paper, that paper does not tell how much I give my heart to him, that piece of paper does not stop either partner cheating ......that paper is only to let the world know we have made it legal to committ to each other in the laws eyes, dont make me a saint in the world of sex!

My so asked me one day what does sex feel like for a women, I told him.....well you know those butterflies you get in your tummy when you are so very ecited about sowmthing you are looking forward too..........he says yeah.........I said....well double that , mixed in with your heart pouding through your chest like you could just burst into peices of the strongest love you have ever felt, and that is what sex feels like for me as a women, becuase every women will experince it differently! He was happy with that answer and now see's sex as something pure no something cheap and nasty to the other partner!

Wow Soul, the fact that your son would ask you that just confirmed my thoughts in my previous post. Good job :)

(Gotta admit though, when I look at my little boy who can't walk yet, I can't begin to imagine what it would be like to talk to him about sex LOL!)

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(Gotta admit though, when I look at my little boy who can't walk yet, I can't begin to imagine what it would be like to talk to him about sex LOL!)

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Exactly Rory!!!

I honestly believe that unless you're in the situation whereby you do have a child at the age that sex does become an issue, then you really don't know how you or he/she are going to react to it.
Yep, I have discussed sex with my 13 yr old son, and everything that goes along with it... he is 13, he is starting to get to the age of being more curious about sex. When the day comes that he may or may not want to talk about it with me, I would like to think that we could have open and honest communication with each other... but until then, I don't know how we will be... I just hope that he will feel like he can discuss anything with me.

Soul, I have been thinking about this a LOT recently.

Firstly, I don't think you are a bad parent, far from it. You sound like a great parent. I don't think I have stated that before so want to make sure that's clear.

However, I have many hang-ups about sex. Far too many really. I was thinking about PMing you about them but then thought no, I may as well say why I feel like this here. I don't want to discuss this at all, so will not welcome comments on it. I am not saying it is correct or rational to feel like this, but this is how I feel about it all.

When I was 16 my mother just assumed I was sleeping with my boyfriend - I wasn't, but she wanted me too. He wanted me to. His mother was OK with it. I wasn't. So when he got abusive I felt I couldn't go anywhere because everyone would just tell me that "well, it's normal to have sex." Not only that, but my little sister was having sex at that time too, so my mother I think couldn't have coped with me being different or abused. The vast majority of girls I knew as a teen had underage sex and/or been sexually abused by boyfriends. OK, so there was a pocket of people who were OK, but those were the ones whose parents were more strict. But everyone knew girls who had abortions, were uncomfortable with what boyfriends wanted to do but did it anyway to keep them happy, and turned up to exams pregnant. Maybe it's just where I grew up, maybe I just remember the bad points, but that's what I remember.

It's not about virginity, it's not about underage sex, it's about consent and not doing it for a silly reason (such as "I'm turning 16 next week and can't be a virgin at 16.") I actually had one boyfriend say how nice it was to finally date someone chaste... he wasn't saying that after 3 months though: I'll just say now we did break up for other reasons (my depression hit big-time and he couldn't cope with it). But I had another boyfriend cheat on me, sleep with a floozy I knew from school, because I wouldn't have sex with him. And that's just the one I know about.

DH slept with other girls before me and it makes me wonder if he compares us, how I rate, if they did something he really liked... if he wants me to do that, if he asks me to do something is it because someone else did it first... yes, I know I'm hung up on this but just think how fewer hang-ups I would have if it were normal to wait and this were encouraged. I wouldn't feel intimidated by a past that DH wants to forget (btw, it was only last year I finally saw a photo of an ex-girlfriend I was told was "hot" by one of DH's friends; that not-so-accurate description had plagued me for years!). I'm still paranoid that I don't measure up - and he did say that he'd have left if we weren't married when I was pregnant because I was so paranoid.

But that's why I'm against mothers (and fathers) being OK with their children having sex before they're in a very serious relationship. You don't have to be married (I wasn't - we were engaged), but it may cut down on the upsets. I'm just so scared something bad is going to happen to my baby, or my future babies. I'm not saying my attitude is right, or is going to stay the same forever, but I am going to say that's why I feel how I feel right now.

Ryn sweetheart I knew you had had some hang ups sweetheart, we all do, in one way or another and I will say a great big thank you for being so honest and sharing yours with me, with us all, that took a lot of guts to do that and I respect you so very much for that, you should be very proud of yourself my sweet because the first step to healing in any way about our pasts is talking about it! You did not need to share this, not at all, so I salute you for bringing it to the fore for us all to understand your way of thinking so much easier!

You love your babe so much you would be willing to protect him from all the hurts and pains you have had to go through yourslef, that is a mothers love alright, and we do all see this, its hard not to notice how much you love that little fella.

Just know, my daughter is still a virgin, has no intention of being otherwise till her body has finished growing and I told her that is after 18 lol! BUT I just wanted her to know if she was to go behind my back, heaven forbid, I want her to understand to use protection, that is all this has been about, not my giving her permission.


I am glad you wrote all this, becuase I see now where you are coming from with your own hurts and pains.


Love and Light to you and yours,
Jay aka soul

Soul, this is why I am so happy I have boys!! What a hard situation you are in. Like you said, your DH and you started dating at a similar age and a similar age gap. It's so hard to explain to them that it was different huh! I say to go with your mother's instinct hun, it serves us mum's very well indeed. I do think that the age difference is something which should be judged case by case and not as a blanket thrown across the ages IYKWIM. As we know kids all mature differently and some are definitely older than their years. BTW... I was a virgin until 18 and my first was Joshua's dad... I think it's important that they know it's not a bad thing at all to wait until they are really sure about it all. All the best with this one hun.

LOL She is dating her old flame again, has been since day two of starting this thread, just shows you how quicj things change as we cannot predict anything when it comes to teenagers ha!Oh and he is only 2 years older than her, but even at 17 they are wanting sex, so dont mean she is any better off! But he is scared stiff of me and hubbie, scared stiff, so I doubt he will be thinking below his belly!

Ryn it took a lot of guts to share that. Bravo.

It's sad that your mother made you feel not being ready to have sex was some sort of ridiculous hang-up instead of being completely normal. I was abused by a family member and by a boyfriend but i do not regret the consensual sex i had as a teenager. In my experience whether it is me or the partner i'm with, if anything get's compared it is not the physicalities or the mechanics but the mood. Today after some very wonderful intimate moments DP remarked that he has had unloving sex before and he is always amazed by the difference between that and how it is between us. It is not what i do or how i do it, it is how i FEEL when i do it.

Sex is not a purely physical act of relief or an "activity" to be take part in during leisure time. As you feel in your heart (as shown by how you talk about married sex) sex is about the connection between two people. There is no sexual technique or trick which can fake loving devotion to another and the desire to use your body to communicate that love to them through their own body. There is no thrill of willingness or knowledge which can emulate love with conviction, and without love sex is functional and distant.

We raise men not to discuss this, we raise them to be undemonstrative but we allow them to be demonstrative about sex. Men are encouraged, expected to be keen on and to seek sex. Some of that is nature, sure, as it is with women, but a lot of it is nurture.

As a society we joke about men wanting to be bachelors forever, play the field, sleep around, experience everything. But as many men as women get married because as many men as women seek the closeness and ressurance and warmth of the marital bed.

It is my opinion that you should cease giving even a passing thought to those other women DH has known. Whatever it was they did in bed was not spectacular enough to stop him committing his whole life and self to you so he could always share yours. THAT, in my opinion, speaks for itself.

:hug:

Bx

Wow this thread has really raced ahead while I have been away for the weekend! This is such an emotional issue for all of us and makes me realise even more that I am not the only one with hangups!
I have asked DD (nearly 16) to read this thread when she gets time as i would really like her input and also it has been a great conversation starter for us! More later.

mrsmac, hope your weekend was a good one sweetie! It sure was an eye opener wasnt it!


Chloe thanked me tonight, omg my heart just melted, she had an argumnet with her boyfriend and she came and gave me a hug and told me she is so glad I am her mum, awwwwwwww!!! lol We talked about this thread a couple of days ago, she told me she is so glad I dont make her feel she has to hide things form me, and this is the whole reason I said I want her to know about her choices if she so decided to have sex "Regardless" of my encouragement not to just yet!!!They are little women still trying to find there way to adulthood, and it can be such a sonfusing time for them, becauwse there minds are stuck in two worlds, that of being grown up, but feeling angry that they are not heard as littlw women, that we stiull see them as our little girls, but even at 30 they will still be our little girls, thats just the way it is for a parent. But I refuse to at least not hear what she has to say, becuase I know she is not a silly teenager, she is a beautiful young women and has a good mind too!

Soul, well done hun. You are doing a brilliant job as a mum! You should be so proud of yourself.

awwwwwwww me loves ya!!!!