TTC after Late Loss, Recurrent Miscarriage or Stillbirth ~ #5 2011

Hey girls - seems we are going through one of our quiet spells again.
Gigi - as loveable as puppies are I'm sure you are being tested a fair bit at this time too. Hope the fun part starts soon
for you. Just remember what you are doing is an awesome thing. Sorry you missed OV this month.......
S&S - wishing you the the best for you ultrasound - time almost stands still at times like this huh....
Skybie - fab news that things are going so well x
re:BAL's news - wow that sure is an early arrival - hope all is going well for her & bub - got to be a rough few weeks ahead I would think.....Hugs....
To everyone else - HI!
Nothing to report in my world other than the usual merry go round stuff that you girls know all about. Oh, I did start Weight Watchers on Friday to try & shift a few of these unwanted kg's so helping that has a flow on effect with my ttc efforts. That's about as exciting as it gets lovelies.
Check back in later xxxx

MT2- Hey love...yes it has been testing for sure but we are getting there. Her new nickname is Snap Dragon...she has been through 'Hoodini', 'Monkey', 'Panther', to name a few...all of which have been chewed up and spat out. Thanks love for you words of support. Means the world.

I knwo your merry go round love,,,riding it with you. Thinking of you hun and make sure you post shoud you need to vent or anything at all.
My hands are full atm but i am around and if an update comes in, i will see it in no time hopefully. xoxo

Hello Lovely Ladies.
Not a great deal of news to report from here. Saw my new Dr on the 16th of last month and so far he is amazing. He didnt make me feel like a d#$khead when I asked questions, my old ob/gyn would laugh at me and brush my questions off. Also he sent me for a heap of blood tests (10 vials worth!) I got a letter in the mail from him today saying that I had a positive ENA (extractable antinuclear antibody) and positive lupus anticoagulant test and he wants me to retest just to be sure before my next visit. Any of you lovely ladies had any experience with either of these tests and what this might mean? I see him again on the 27th of this month. I am just impressed that he actually read my results before I was sitting in front of him like most Drs and that he got in touch with me before the consult and included lab forms so I didnt need an appointment just to get them! As you can probably tell from my gushing I have not had much luck with Drs!!
So for the last year I have been in pretty intense pain and had been seeing a rheumatiod arthritis specialist and while preg with James - but new Dr doesnt think I even have it! Old Dr did blood work and said I had tested neg for RA but keep taking the prednisone as it was working! Great help he was if it turns out I dont even have RA!!
Ok that rant over :)
Well our fundraising "High Tea" is on this Saturday afternoon. We have about 40 ladies confirmed to come already so we are pretty excited about that, for a small town I think that is not a bad turn out. Hopefully it gets bigger and better every year.
I dont know what is in the water or if its just because I am more "aware" but nearly everyone I know that has had a baby since losing James has had a boy! 11 in 6 months!! No girls. Sigh, it just sucks - no other words to really describe how I feel about it all, none that baby belly will let me use anyway lol. I thought I was going really well and getting back to some level of normal but the last 10 days or so have me wondering if maybe I do need to go and see someone. One minute I am fine, happy, normal, nearly the old me and the next I can be that cranky I want to punch someone or a blubbering mess on the floor! Or a combination of both and that is not pretty. I try to keep my crying to in the shower in the morning so my husband and daughter dont see as it just upsets everyone more. I know this sounds weird but it nearly feels normal now to have my big cry and then I can get on with the day.
Last friday I had to go and do the 2 hour glucose test (another test for new Dr) and I had to ask to sit in another part of the waiting area as there was a mother there with two little girls - both in nappies so under 3 I would think. She kept telling them to shut the f#$% up and swearing at them, of course she was there for the 2 hour test too as she was very pregnant. The last straw was her equally bogan friend arrived and asked her if she would have any more after this baby was born and she said "nah didnt even f$#%ing want this one!" So was either move waiting rooms or choke her til her head popped off (I dont really mean that but I am sure you lovely ladies have all had that moment!!!!)
Ok enough rants for one day ladies, I know everyone has issues they are dealing with daily - not just preg or baby related. I do have good days, hopefully tomorrow will be fun. Off to a playland with a 3 lovely friends and our 8 combined children 2 hours away!
Much love and baby dust and terribly sticky babies to us all.
Love Trace xoxoxo

Hi all. I'm still around. Will bbl to respond better. It's 5pm and I just got out of bed. Had no sleep last night at all and ended up taking a Temazapan this morning. I thought I was getting better. I can only assume it's the lead up to J's EDD. Though I'm sure he'd have been born by now. Maybe if he had been healthy I'd be holding a living baby by now.

Sorry for the me post. Not coping. Again.

hi everyone

Phew - I am not going to be able to catch up today....

Tashy - oh sweetie, I have been thinking of you a lot lately, as usual, but not that you would know because I haven't told you until now. I am sorry my friend that I don't reach out enough. I just want to give you the biggest squishy hug ever..... I know it won't make things right, but maybe for a moment you'd feel at peace. ( Wow, that's kinda arrogant huh? Thinking that a hug from me would actually help you feel a serene moment).... hugs for hard times.

Gi - how is the four legged fiend? Hugs for missing O :(

Trace ( EJ) - wow that is such good news about your Dr, it makes a world of difference to feel respected and worthy from your care givers. I am kinda lucky to have stumbled on a Dr like yours too. And I gush too. I don't know anything about the results and what they mean. I hope what ever it is it's fixable or not a problem for you or the baby. Seeing that sort of attitude from someone would have made my blood boil too. Good on you for asking for a different room. The thing is, I would have thought of a hundred smart things to say but would have said none, because people like that usually start yelling and swearing right back and they always seem to have a cadre of thugs around or at their beck and call. So you did the best thing. It's so nice to hear you talk about your pg.

Mt2 - well done on starting WW. It's good you've made a committment to help yourself, always the hardest thing. Before you know it you'll have achieved your goal.

Skybie - that a good idea about helping you and DD1 accept this new baby. It must be so hard trying to explain over and over again to DD1, who just wouldn't understand. How is Blessed going? I think of her a lot. I want to help as I live in Brissy. I sent her a PM, but understandably she's not gotten back to me. I just feel so helpless and I feel like I can help and want to help? Maybe that's just about me though.

Cindee - hiya! I am not sure if I've "met" you.... but welcome and sorry that you've had the heartache necessary to join this thread.

Sunshine - how is your 2WW going? I am so proud of you for doing this cycle. A friend of mine has just today gone for egg collection after a really emotional cycle where the Dr's were thinking of cancelling it as the follies just were slow off the mark. So she will be starting her 2WW soon, if things go well in the next 3-5 days. FX for her and you.

AFM? Well, touch wood, I seem to be over the fatigue and worst of the symptoms of my cold. I know it sounds so minor " a cold" but I have just been knocked to the floor with virus after virus this winter. It's nice to feel some energy returning. HB turned 1, and we had a nice bbq in the park. I can't believe that I get to do this. Sometimes I wonder if it's all a dream and I will wake up to my other reality, the one that Tashy is going through now. It's CD 14 for me and I O'ed late monday or yesterday based on CM. I was super keen to get DH into some BD action yesterday before he went to work, but it didn't happen. :( Hoping that the weekends efforts might have helped. Sometimes I wonder if these "forced" delays are actually the universe saying to me that I am not ready just yet....

I have a small admission to make. I have been day dreaming about being pregnant with twins. So much so that I spent most of the night thinking and hoping. And I am also checking out internet sites on parenting twins and I finally worked out that fraternal twins are hereditary on the maternal side as hyperovulation tends to be hereditary. So there you go, another thing I have learnt about my family of origin ( I am adopted and know next to nothing). But then I think of the reality and even then my desire is still strong.

Anyway, better go. Keep strong my blossoms.

EmJ, Love thank good ness for losing hte old OB and findign the new one. Makes such a difference to how you feel. I know it is something i kind of dread at this stage. All my previous care in the country was under special care and she only handles risky pregnancies...and i am not sure i want her anyway. I want midwifery care but nt sure if i would be eligible anyway. I grieve for the loss of choice in home birth these days and the lack of financial support to do so. I guess i will be chasing midwifery care, unless there is an issue. I envy you for having it all worked out.
I would be 'gushing' too hun. I woul dlove to find a gp that woul doffer the same consideration. I had to op for picking up my results without the consult last time as i just couldn't fork out the cash to see her again. I rarely go to the dr and she charges by time and costs a bomb. I will need to find another. The last 2 years have been all about finding someone.
Would your apparent RA be something like Ross River. We tough D had Arth and it turned out to be Ross River. We got him treated alternatively with Mora Therapy and found it and the homeopathics that come with it very good. Just a thought.
As for the twit in the waiting room....god that would have provoked me too. I would have moved just to stop myself from telling her off. God it takes all types and infuriates me that nature is not so selective, or it is and has no idea what it is doing. Why why why???
Suckful timing on all the baby boys in your life right now reminding you of James. I am sorry this makes it harder for you hun xoxo
Thinking of you on your hard days as well as the good ones. I think it is normal to cry in the shower...i also think it is normal to have thoughts about having to see/speak to someone. I believe we generally have these thoughts at appropriate times and we should listen to our inuition. I tmight help to have a third party just remind you that you are normal and doing well despite the horrendous journey.
Love and hugs to you hun. xoxox

Tash, I am sorry love you are finding the days tough right now. This will be an off and on reality for a while now...as you know more than all of us. I wish i could take the pain away for you hun, give it all back and a happy ending. EDDs are tough times and not much i can say to make it better but i promise i am thinking of you and wishing you every calmness. Sending you much love hun, go gently and stay in touch. Vent all you need to, we are here to listen.

Dores, I woudl simply love you to have twins again. Not to replace N and S in anyway but to show you your body can do it and there can be an alternative ending.I say alternative because i know having them were a beautiful blessing and a happy moment even though their lives were short. I would just love you to watch you beam with another pregnancy ...and twins to boot.
Ahhh, forced delays- I tend to agree that they have some sort of devine plan. I don't know. Iguess i have the feelings that if i was a day late from getting started...it might mean that my body was actually going to ov later than usual. I am trying to believe that if i trust myself enough and my inuition..it will happen, eventually, but perfectly.
In saying that, libido for me is out the window right now with a 4 legged madam in the house.

AFM- Tough week...actually a tough couple of weeks. Some of which i will explain. The first 2 weeks of having our little friend has been challenging and ther have definitely been times of resenting her a little that we have her and not our baby girl running about the place. I have cried many tears these last two weeks. I was starting to get my head above water/tears and DH came home early enough for me to go to Yoga. He looked after madam for us and i set off for 2 hours to lose myself in bliss. This particular day i really needed it, I had just found out SIL is pregnant with their 3rd and last child. She has also had an early miscarriage inbetween the two she has. I am thrilled for her and of course it also brings up heartbreaking moments of joy/sadness for me and DH too.
I then found out that a friend is losing her baby at 20 weeks after just finding out now that there were severe issues. I just lost it. I am heartbroken for them. It is also at a time everything feels so raw for me again. My period arrived the next day. And i have had to pull out of looking after any of my nephews right now with the pup we have. I feel broken, i miss my boys and i miss my baby. I am trying to find the new me in this life we have and today she is a bit lost.
Pup getting much better. She is very bright and we are learning how to occupy her...it requires a lot of time and energy but we are moving forward.

Better run. xoxo

Gi - oh my blossom, thankyou for you kind words. You are not broken my dear, just down trodden with the weight of the world on your shoulders. Hugs for hard times. You will see your boys again soon and they will zoom around with their super hero capes on saving the world one little boy moment at a time. Even though I never met her, I feel like I know your DD. And that's because you keep her light so bright and pure, and I feel blessed that just sometimes her light shines on me. Or at least it feels that way when you talk about her. Oh sweetie, I am so so sorry for your friends and their wee baby. Congrats to your SIL too, lucky them huh? But at the same time it just reminds you of what your heart desires.... give the four legged fiend a pat for me and glad that things are improving. Good work DH for giving you a break so you could go to yoga - see if you can do it next week too!

Tashy - I have had a weird couple of days not really knowing whether I was coming or going and just really vague and disorganised. Makes it hard I know. Hope we can sync things soon. Hugs sweetie for Jude's EDD. I never really askedbefore, but what's the story behind Leo's name?

This is going to sound really weird, but I just realised that I am in the 2ww. Can you believe it? OMG. I am actually quite stunned and it feels a bit surreal. But like Gi, I have some sad news around me and it takes the shine off. My friend just had an ivf cycle that was going to be cancelled then wasn't. Anyway, no eggs were able to be retrieved. My friend is doing it real tough, and my heart just aches for her. Anyway, I had better be off. Have to be up sparrow fart tomorrow. Yikes.

Hi everyone :hello: I just thought I would post a link to my blog, if anyone wants to know the story of Baby Button.

Many :hug: and :bluedust::pink-babydust: being sent your way.. I hope no one thinks I am being insensitive by posting..

Hi-- we just found out that this pregnancy is not viable. No heartbeat. I suspected it...but it still sucks. Royally.

Oh S&S, I am sorry hun. That is horrible news. I am thinking of you and hope with all my heart you heal in time, you are one strong lady. I am just so sorry.

Blessed- Hun, I can't see the link. I might not have worked it out though. I am sorry you are going through such a tough time love. It iwll be good to know your story.

Dores, precious...good luck through your TWW, how very exciting. My fingers are crossed tightly for you and my hopes could not be higher. It is time! Thinking of you. Thank you for your kind words hun, yep i think Yoga is out this week. DH has been so under staffed lately but the good news is he has found a couple of new staff, so once training is done, i might see him a bit more....starting to forget what he looks like! ;) I woke up this morning, wanting a weekend from little miss four legs. She took me for a ride yesterday for sure. Devilish miss she is. Absolute waste of time getting mad...although sometimes i do, at myself. We are getting there. This is tougher than i thought it would be. But there have been improvements.
She is asleep, might try and get a spot of yoga in now.

Hi girls just popping in to let ur know our little bear is a girl. Will be back to catch up properly when I've had some time to process. Feeling a bit deflated atm

Oh Skybie, that is wonderful news hun...a little strawberry shortcake. Hope you are feeling good about it. Were you expecting a little boy? Hope you are doing alright babe and hope you feel less deflated soon. xoxo. Thinking of you and throwing a princess fairy party here for you!

Cindee, so sorry i missed your post. Welcome and hope you find the support you need in here. A wonderful bunch of women and we are most of the time active and chatting. Let us know your story. So sorry for the heartache you must have experienced to have found us. xoxox

Warning: Griping and TMI will follow. Sorry.
I wish I would go ahead and bleed already. This is crazy-making. Not sure when my body is going to figure out what is happening. I do not want to end up at the hospy.
In addition, my very public job means that I may start the m/c in a very public place.
SCREAM.
Not a good day, exactly. I feel disappointed and sad...and wondering how bad this is going to be.
SCREAM again.

Sunshine - hugs my sweet blossom... I am so sorry. Grieve the loss of this pregnancy as you need to. I hope that the bleeding starts in private for you, is it possible to take a few days off to take care of yourself rather than putting others first? If not, sending you as much strength as you need.

Oh darling girl. I am so sorry you are facing this. I hope with all my heart this happens at home in your time, with your focus in your space, away from the world and their thoughts. I hope you get to rest with this tiny baby and heal together. Meditate a little hun and ask your body to let go. It is such a tough time to wait. Your body needs time and it will catch up. Have faith, as hard as that is right now. It will catch up. Thinking of you and don't be scared, as much as i hope it happens at home, wherever and whenever it does will be and you wil handle it perfectly babe. Keep moving, keep living as best you can. Thinking o fyou and sending you much strength and love right now. xoxoxox HM

Hi all. Firstly, I've changed my username to honour my new avvy, but it's still me, tashybabe :)

S&S - I am so, so sorry :hug: You must be devastated. If you need to chat, let me know, either here or FB or email. I am thinking of you. I also think of your little boy often. I also had a mmc. My body held on for 2 weeks before we found out and I ended up opting for a D&C. One day, we will both get take home babies.. it will happen. Meanwhile, let yourself greive. For both this baby and your son.

Gigi1 - I hope SnapDragon stops pushing your buttons soon. I hope you're also getting lots of love and cuddles as well as having your patience tested. I know you're not allowed to say too much. I remember my mum's dog as a pup. She was a defiant little thing. She'd just sit there, staring at me as if to say "who do you think you are, you're not the boss of me", then run away! It took time but with lots of love and patience, she turned out to be a very loving dog. Still with her own special personality, but very gentle.

So sorry about your friend. That's incredibly sad. I also find myself heartbroken when I hear about other baby loss. I know what hell it is and wouldn't wish it on anyone.

EJ - so good you have a better Dr. They make such a difference. I've been tested for ANA and lupus too. They can affect fertility, so it's good they've picked it up now. I hope you're fundraising tea went well. It's a great thing to do and I hope you made lots of money.

That's awful about listening to a woman talk like that to her children. I've seen something similar and it just breaks my heart. Dont they realise how lucky they are?

cindee - welcome. sorry to see you with us. Do you feel like sharig your story?

dory - sorry we keep missing each other. the hugs are lovely and do help. Fx your 2WW ends in another 8-9 months with a healthy bundle of joy :) Happy belated birthday for HB. I think it's lovely you want twins again. DH suggested twins to me (as if it's something we can control) but it scares me. Given we're only likely to go again one more time it may solve the problem of no living siblings. But if they both had more genetic problems, it would be awful. Happily, not something I can control. There's fraternal twins on my paternal side (Dad's Mum was a twin) but that rules me out.

As for Leo's name, it was a name we thought of a few weeks before he was born. We got it off West Wing and added it to our shortlist. It was about 3rd or 4th. Then he was born early and he looked like a Leo to us, with his strong build and ginger hair. We was a determined little boy, coming out bum first, kicking all the way. Later, we realised he had been born on a full moon in Leo, so it felt like it was meant to be. Which is both happy and sad to think of.

Hugs for your friends. I also have friends who just had a failed cycle. They do have a couple of frosties, but I know they're devastated. It's their 4th go I think.


BAL - I am thinking of you and little Jett everyday. I read your blog. It looks like he's doing wonderfully well so far. I know you must be worried and feeling like you're reliving things, but he's growing and hopefully you'll be able to take him home soon (but not too soon of course)

Skybie - :hug: take all the time you need and don't beat yourself up for your feelings. You're allowed to feel disappointed and deflated. Would writing to Jack help at all?

Hello to anyone I missed

AFM. Things are rough. Sleep doesn't want to be my friend so sleeping pills are at the moment :( I know I'll get through. It's not like there's any alternative after all, not one I'm interested in anyway. I was never going to get to 40 weeks with this baby. I know I wouldn't have coped mentally. So we should have our take home baby with us by now. In another universe, some woman is introducing her 15 month old son to his baby brother. That should be me. I feel sad and low and ripped off. I don't know what I ever did that was so terrible that this should happen. I know, logically, bad things happen. I just don't understand why us? why our babies? I miss my boys so much.

So this Saturday should have been Jude's due date. We're going to do another balloon release for him. You know what's weird. In the last year or so, the only association I have with balloons is funerals, memorials, death. I wonder if I'll ever be able to have happy balloons, not just goodbye balloons? Anyway, we'll take them to a lake we went to when we found out he was sick. Then we have some family and our midwife coming for dinner Saturday night. We'll be cooking Indian, so I'll be starting prep for that Thursday :) It's also Pregnancy & Infant loss day, so I'll be lighting candles for both our boys.

There's a Walk to Remember with SIDS & Kids and SANDS at Albert Park on Sunday we may go to. More balloons there too.

I don't see me going back to work any time soon. I left the house today to pick up drycleaning. Not exactly being a productive member of society...

I think we're cancelling Christmas this year too. We did it last year, I even decorated the tree. I just can't bear it this year. We had dinner with family last week and they gave us an ornament with Jude's name on it, to match Leo's from last year. I just broke down howling for ages. It's not their fault. It's just how things are now. At least now they may see, when I say I can't socialise, I'm not just being difficult. I'm not going to big functions full of strangers when I'm likely to have a meltdown. Maybe, now, they get it.

Sorry for the sooky post. Just not coping right now.

Big hugs Tash :hug:. It's a bloody tough road some of us must travel. It does get easier hun, but it takes a lot of time, and even then I think of Josh every single day still. So it never goes away, that feeling of wanting them back every day and missing them like crazy. One day at a time hun :comfort:

I'll most likely be going on Sunday too. I went the first time they had it 2 years ago and missed the last year's one as we were going to China around theat time and the weather was crap and I was scared wee man would get sick. Pm me if you feel like having a meet up or a chat.

Oh Tash i love the new name. Very fitting. Darling girl, i have the very same deep thoughts everyday at the moment, gut wrenching and horrible with no answers to the questions- well none i am happy with. It is tough hun and I am so sorry it is a particularly raw time for you right now with dates. This weekend will be a challenge i am sure but also i think, fitting that everyone around the world is mourning at the same time for someone they know. The boys are celebrated in such a big way with such awareness. We will be lighting candles too. I went last year and found it a bit awkward, my life at the moment with this puppy is so full on, i won't get to go. But next year i might just do it again. We shall see.


Little snap dragon is doing well and improving. Still very much pressing my buttons but she is getting there. She is really wanting more and more stimulation which is good i think.

Love to all and thinking of you all. oxox HM

Tash - thankyou for sharing about Leo's name. Just as an aside, I love the West Wing too.

I am sorry that things are so tough. Always questions without answers and always just a little bit broken, that's how I feel some days too. I think you're doing remarkably well sweet. Just cause you've been there before, doesn't make it any quicker or easier to get through, it just means you know a little more of what to expect and I think the lows are much lower and any sense of being at ease is a lot harder to come by. It's also a lot harder to dust yourself off and get up the second + time. I know that for sure. After one I think there is still optimism, and a strong desire to get through the pain. After more than one, there is less motivation to find a way forward quickly and there is a bizzare comfort and ritual in the pain and grief. It is such hard work, honestly, such hard work. You are doing so well.

Skip christmas, do what you need to do. If people aren't kind enough to try and understand your feelings, then try not to worry. Have they walked in your shoes? I can understand about breaking down when your fam gave you the ornament. I think I would have too. Thing is, my fam just ignore my angel babies very existence. And as you know, one recently told me there were insignificant and I needed to not be so morbid and get on with it. To be honest, I think I would rather they at least acknowledge them.

Anyway, I am truly humbled, we asked for donations for HB's first birthday in lieu of presents to go to Angel Babies Foundation ( Tash you inspired me for this one) and we raised $800. Can you believe it? Interestingly, the person who gave me so much grief about it? I think they made a donation, annonymously because of the the message they sent to HB.... not sure what's worse, the apparent hypocracy by making an anon donation or that I may have actually changed their mind. Hell must have frozen over for me to change their mind, so iI am going to stick with hypocracy.

Oh, dear, a bit bitter am I today. Best be off.

Gi - give snap dragon a hug for me.

Dores, i have never known you to be bitter hun...you are far from it although it might be how you feel. I think you are smashing! Will give SD a hug for you...when she is asleep so she does eat me. She just did so well on an outing. Very very well. I have an hour to me now....hmmm washing ironing, dishwasher and something to eat that doesn't involve moving her from in front of the fridge door.

Tash, thinking of you today and hope you are feeling well. xoxoxo

I lost my first reply, so I will try again... Hi everyone--
The miscarriage began-- it's not too terrible-- though of course, emotionally devastating. But my body seems to be handling it well. I hope that I can go through this naturally without having to have a D&C to clean things up. Anyway...I am doing okay considering.

Tash (and others) -- We aren't celebrating XMAS either-- well, we are helping to make Xmas for the churches, 'cause of our professions, but on the homefront-- we aren't having a tree or many decorations, and we are planning to "escape" (ie "go away") to make things different. Our son was "supposed to be" with us, in a living breathing way, but we are going to acknowledge his presence regardless, albeit in a different way.

I read somewhere that preparing for "the holidays" by having "a plan" is helpful. I think that this is what we are trying to do.

Gotta go to work--
Peace to all.

S&S- So sorry things have started for you love but i guess good too knowing it was coming anyway. You seem to be handling it with much strength. Thinking of you and hoping your body does what is needed to heal without any intervention. I have faith that you just might be fine as your body has birthed before...not that is make s huge difference for the placenta to let go, but it will certainly help with your body's efficiency as it 'knows' what to do even more than before.

Love and peace to you. xxoxox

Hey beautiful people,
Only have time to say love & many hugs to those who need them (that is all of us right?).
My heart breaks for the sadness some of you are feeling & the pain you are going through.
Having to deal with imbeciles on top of that......sheesh, as if it aint tough enough.
I am sad to hear some of you are cancelling xmas but I totallly understand why you are doing so.
Will bbl for proper catchups but wanted you all to know I was around & reading & sharing in your journeys.
xxxx

Hello lovely lady MT2- Good to hear from you and knwo you are still around.
Hope you are doing ok love. x

As for Xmas, well it has never been the same and we have definitely pulled back but we still get invovled to some extent for my nephews. We have have avoided xmas get togethers and xmas has been slowly growing in our home. Last year we put up some decs but not many. We have a stocking for DD and each day of December we write down a thought, memory, something we have done or want to say to her and on xmas morning we open them all and read them out loud for her. That is our xmas morning. I do tend to feel quite gloomy and really don't want to get all that invovled. It is a time of year that is such a strong reminder that our family is not as we hoped or dreamed. We don't have a living child and xmas is so family and child orientated...even our own memories of our childhoods. We cry a lot over xmas time. It is also a really busy time for DH's work so we resign to that and we don't fight it. We are used to not being able to go to 'get togethers' at that time and to be honest, it is a good excuse to have as we just don't feel like it most of the time...yet. I find myself saying...we are just so busy, sorry we can't catch up...and banking of the years of service in hospitality, I have been able to say..well you know it is not a great time of year for us to get together.

We went to an early xmas dinner last year with all the family, as everyone would be elsewhere and travelling. We wanted to give the kids our gifts and have dinner with all. My family have a tradition of sorts that started on a family trip one year...highlights and lowlights. Each day on the trip we would all list our highlight and lowlight. Well everyone said, right....time to do highlights and lowlights for the year. My brave Dh spoke up and said he couldn't think of a highlight as our lowlight was that our daughter can't be here for xmas. HE said a bit more through tears and i admire him so much as i still don't have the courage to speak up to my family. They forget and expect so much sometimes. But who can blame them, until you walk in someone elses shoes. I would never wish this understanding on anyone.

So I am not sure what we will do this year with the family. I think we will celebrate early again and try and keep xmas day to ourselves. The actual day has become a bit of a calm and peaceful day for us these last couple of years, expressive don't get me wrong, but open and free to feel how we want and that can be calming. I think the stress that coems from being around everyone can often be ...for me, that I can't be and feel myself. xoxoxo My two bobs.

Love and hugs to you all. xoxoxox HM

Hi Lovely Ladies,
As I read through I see a lot of talk about Christmas! I cannot believe we are coming up to this time of year! As many of you on here our Christmas this year is not what I had pictured in my head last Christmas! Our daughter helping our new baby open their presents etc. We will just do Christmas like we normally do I guess, I am sure it will hit me closer to the day that this is not how it was meant to be.
Hi S&S, sorry to hear about your miscarriage and I hope that it has finished for you without any intervention. I was 'lucky' with mine in August that I started to bleed on the Saturday and had bub on the Sunday (the product was complete, quoting the Dr!). So no medical intervention was needed.
GiGi - how is the new pup going? Our dog that I got suckered into taking from work, has FINALLY stopped chewing absolutely everything! He loves coke bottles with water frozen in them (label and lid removed) He spends ages chewing on them and loves when the ice comes out. How is everything with you? I hope that you are well and in a great baby making place right now. I hope that the new pup is not stressing you out too much and that they settle into a great routine for you xo
M2Two - Hello! Hope you are well xo
LionsandBears - Hi honey - I hope that you are doing well - I have no real words for you. I hope that you got through Jude's due date ok. As you already know it is a hard day, but just hard in a different way. Everyday we are aware of what we have lost and what could have been, it's just these days are such an important date from the moment we fall pregnant ( i know its the first thing I work out - when am I due!!) I hope that you are sleeping better and doing whatever you need to do to get through your days and nights. Big hugs and much love to you xox
Cindee - I hope your going ok? I have only seen your one post and hope that you feel like you can post here soon.
Dory - Wow!! $800!! That is amazing! You should be so proud. Our angel babies are our babies. At no matter what age we lose our babies they are a child that we do not have with us here on earth. I have lost at 27 weeks gest and at 8 weeks 5 days and they are both terrible. I am lucky that I have such a great family and group of friends that I openly talk about my pregnancies and losses with them. People who just dismiss them as being insignificant should really take a good long hard look at themselves. Would they say the same if we had lost our babies to SIDS or illness or accident? It doesnt matter that our babies didnt make it to be here at home with us. Our loss is our loss. Sorry for the rant - I have had a few comments like "its ok you can have another" etc. Other peoples ignorance really ****es me off.
AFM - off to see my Dr on Thursday to get some results from the truck load of tests that have been done. Apparently its some type of auto immune thing so fingers crossed he has some answers and we can get to making babies lol. Our fundraiser went really really well. We raised over $1800 on the day and had 61 ladies come to the event ( and my husband - lol. He just loves being with all the women!) So now we are going through the process of becoming a registered charity and that is amazingly difficult and costly! Our local bank - Hunter Mutual have given us an account fee free and we are one of their charities now so people can nominate us and 1% of their interest the bank will donate that to us. Hopefully we can get some massive accounts :).
Ok I better go and cook tea before the family fades away :)
Big hugs and much love to you all.
Love Trace xoxoxo

Hiya, just sneaking in to let you know I got a bfp this week. I will pop in every so often, to check on you my lovelies. I know nothing is guaranteed and it is very early days at the mo. I am excited but just trying to live in the moment. I am going away for a while so that will be a nice distraction. Little raspberry is being kind to me so far.

EJ - fx with the results, and also fund raising. thanks for your rant, it soothes the soul.

Dory- I am so thrilled for you :dance: that's fabulous news. Lots and lots of sticky vibes. I hope you have a healthy, boring pregnancy. Moment by moment is the way to be.

I'm out of town. I'll respond more when I'm back. I hope everyone else is ok.

Dory!!!!! I am super excited for you, congratulations Hun!!!

Hello ladies, I am still lurking in here as u can see. Afm: anxiety has kicked in but I think I am doing reasonably well keeping it under control. 1 meltdown in 30 weeks is ok isn't it??? I am trying to stay out of stressful situations as they tend to get my anxiety in over drive. And I am so sick of telling me everything is "normal" nothing is normal for me, I understand people are trying to make me stress less, but it is annoying and I don't know how to say stop it!

The fact that I feel bubs isn't as reassuring as one might guess, I felt Matthew move and wriggle right through labor. My thoughts on the c section and my own mortality is a weird one.... But these things are to be as expected yes??? Haha I can only trust people who have experienced loss and carry that weight around to "get it"

Anyway I hope all of you are loving and taking care of yourselves this coming Christmas. Thinking of you all and you are all in my heart.

hi ladies

I'm home briefly between trips. DH is away for work and I'll be joining him for a week. I really dont cope well with being away from him too long anymore. Years ago, I used to dislike it but I'd manage. Not so much anymore.

Gigi1 - I hope you're OK and snap dragon is still improving.

dory - congratulations again. I hope you're doing OK as well. I know managing the fear is hard. One day at a time, darling and we're here to support you whenever you need.

I feel hurt for you that your family dont acknowlege your darling children. I cannot understand that - it must be devastating for you. Well done on the fundraising. It's nice to make a difference.

S&S - thinking of you. I hope the mc wasn't too hard on you physically. I know it will take a long time to heal emotionally. Take things easy. We wont be going away for Xmas, as we're going away in Nov/Dec and will be home by then. However, we will be keeping it quiet. Just walking into shops with all the Xmas decorations up makes me cringe and I want to close my eyes. I feel sad about that, as usually I like Xmas. I even made an effort last year, decorating the tree in blue and gold for our boy. I just cant do it this year. We'll probably end up watching the Godfather trilogy or Star Wars or something.

Mummyto2 - how are you going?

EJ - I hope your results give you a roadmap as to where to go next. Well done on your fundraiser - that's a fabulous result.

Lady Tess - I think 1 meltdown in 30 weeks is extraordinary. i'd had at least 2 or 3 by 20weeks. Sadly, they wont sedate me through the next pregnancy (that was a sort of joke). I get the frustration with people trying to assure you of normal. I dont suppose laughing hysterically at them would help. Can you say gently, I know you mean well, but it doesn't help me at all, so can you please not pretend everything is going to be OK until I have a living, screaming child in my arms? I understand the fear. I felt Leo kicking on the way out. So what? Yes, a kicking baby is good. Absolutely. And it's good to engage with baby, talk to baby etc. Doesnt mean you'll feel safe until it's over. Take care, you're in the home stretch now. I imagine the anxiety may actually increase, but I think having a definate end date may help.

AFM. crap. I had an appointment with the shrink today. On my own, as DH is away. Which was good, as I could open up about what a **** wife and mother I think I am. I feel so fat and ugly, I dont know why he's still with me.... which is what I think on bad days. Even though DH assures me he still loves me. I just take the blame of our sons dying on myself even though there's nothing I did wrong, nothing I could have done differently, at least that we know about. At the moment we're still just monitoring to see if this becomes depression that needs medication. Because we know I'm not taking anything in pregnancy and if I have to take ADs, despite how low risk they are, I wont cope at all. I am so paranoid about exposing myself to anything harmful in case we have another sick baby. If I end up on ADs, that will delay TTC for at least a year.

I do feel rubbish for not losing more weight. I have the mummy tummy and no babies. I never got to see if breasfeeding helps. Never got to do any of those things normal mummies do. I feel like maybe my babies were taken because someone knows I would be a **** mum. That doesnt explain how crack whores are able to produce living children they can then abuse and I cant, but that's how I feel some days.

In other news, I have been researching my family tree. It started as a way to see if I could identify genetic reasons for our babies dying and ended up being a hobby. I went away with family this week and part of the trip I spent researching ancestors on the Victorian goldfields. I found some useful information. I also visited a couple of cemetaries to see where the ancestors are buried. It was beautiful and sad. The old sections of cemetaries are full of baby graves - many families losing multiple children. I took some flowers for 2 baby girls in the family who passed a 9 and 16 months and later found out another baby is in the same grave. I just felt so sad. What haunts me is the grave of a 24 year old woman with 4 of her babies, aged 10months, 11months, 12 months and 6 weeks. I just can't comprehend that kind of loss and grief.

Even turning on TV seems to be potluck. I was watching some UK crime program the other day and it turned out to include dead children.....is it just me or is it everywhere? Is it like when you buy a blue car, you see blue cars all around? I just wonder, did I not notice before? Is anyone else more sensitive now?

On a happier note, a babyloss mama I know is having a scheduled c/s today for her rainbow baby. I am waiting for the birth announcement. She's had a very stresful pregnancy and is struggling to believe she'll be taking home a live baby. I can't wait to see pics and find out her name.

I am back but will be back in later to read...just wanted to let you know I am here. Hope to be in tomorrow. xoxoxo I have not read yet so sorry if this seems insensitive to good and bad news out there. Promise to be back soon. xoxo

I promise to make time for you lovely ladies over the weekend also.
Feel I have been a bit neglectful of late..... I have been reading your news
but will defo be back for some persies on the weekend. Pinky promise :)

Girls, I am so sorry I have been so absent. I have had trouble keeping up with it all. I have also been away. So in my feeble attempt to catch up....here we go.

Dores my darling girl. SO SO SO thrilled for you gorgeous. Wishing you a happy and healthy pregnancy hun and i know it is early days but I am still so excited and I hope it is a wonderful wonderful experience for you. xooxoxox

Lady Tess,- I can not put it any better than LionandBears, awesome job to tally up only one meltdown in 30wks....and so frustrating how people around you handle this. They will never know and nor would you wish it on them, but they will never understand. Keep going lovely, i hope peace of mind is around the corner for you. xoxo

EmJ- Incredible effort hun and good luck on setting it all up officially. I had no idea it costs so much. I couldn't agree more about age/timing of loss. I read a great comment/response to silly remarks from people that have an opinion of severity of loss according to gestation that was just perfectly put for me..it read- 'Do you mean to say that you value and love your eldest child more than your youngest?' How people can place a value from the outside of a situation is beyond me...rude infact and totally unfounded. Good luck on the test results hun, hope they give you something to work with and you can get busy again love. oxxoxo

S&S- Thinking of you and hope you are healing in body and heart gorgeous. I really hope you are doing ok. Love and hugs to you. xoxo

L&B- oh Hun, I am sure you are a wonderful but grieving wife, and mother. Cut your sugar and get out for a short walk each day and i hope it helps the mood changes for you hun. You really don't need the swing when you are looking at depression.
Yes i am certainly more sensitive with things on tv etc. I also look at it as an opportunity to cry when some days i feel like my tears have dried up. I used the expereinces...when i was up to it, it prompt my thoughts about DD and memories of her. It helped me feel closer to her. I kind of enjoy that in a way, having a good cry and being comfortable with my grief. It would help me bring feelings to teh surface- anger, questions, fear, sadness, and utter heartbreak. I am so broken for you hun in this raw pain.
Well it is not a secret anymore...cemetries used to firghten me and remind me of everything sad. I used to walk around them and look at al the grave stones. I would come home in tears grieving my infertility and thinking i will never be a grandmother etc etc...i was terrified that no one will miss me, live on after me. It absolutely terrified me. Now, i find it comforting, i feel calm there and I try to visit one now and again. I find solice in reading other peoples pain on a tomb stone. I helps me not feel so alone. It also reminds me of my own pain, it's signifigance and the pain of others. I don't know...it comforts me and i try to grab a take away hot choc and walk around or sit there. Reading the stones also makes me feel like these people are being thought of.

I have to go to bed now...
But quickly Little miss snapdragon is doing very well. She is just incredible. Her tantrums are getting better and her training is really going well. We had a nice break this week and we all benefited i think. I am happy to say...i have fallen for her. She is just gorgeous. She has been with us now for 5wks and we are all doing well. xoxoxoxxo
CD24 for me....stupid me POAS yesterday and of course it was neg.

Love and hope to all i have not done a persie for. Thinking of you. xoxoxo
HMxxx

Hey gals,
How was everyones weekends?
Gigi - glad your little bundle of doggy goodness is starting to bring you some joy! 5 weeks already - sheesh!
Sorry about the neg poas but we all know you did it too early right? :) I think it is nice that you take the time to share in peoples stories when visiting a cemetery. I haven't wandered around one in ages but think it is nice for those who have passed that people are still thinking about them & what was their life......
Dory -wonderful news - so happy for you.
Lady Tess - you are doing awesome & on the home stretch so woot woot, pat on the back to you!
L&B - you are an inspiration & I take my hat off to you everytime I think about what you've been through. I hope you are doing ok today & tomorrow & always, but I know there will be many dark days to come.....peace & healing to you my sweets x
S&S - hope you are doing ok possum & coming to terms with things. Much love & hugs to you too x
EmJ - hey lovely. When do you get your results? Can't seem to go back a page at the mo' to find out. Fingers x'd it is good (relatively speaking) news for you x
Hi to anybody I have missed - as I say can't seem to see the previous pages right at the minute!
AFM.....plodding along. O time again in this house so you all know what that means ;) I have also been a good girl exercising & eating well - I have lost 4 kilos in as many weeks on weight watchers so hoping this all helps the cause...We have a trip back to Scotland booked now for next March/ April as all my hubbys family are over there. Can't sit around waiting & putting your life on hold waiting for those 2 magical lines.....Anyway, that is about all for now....... & girls....know that even when I'm not posting I am always reading & thinking of you all x

Hello Lovely Ladies,
Well I went and saw my lovely specialist and he confirmed that I have an autoimmune arthritis and to continue on with the steroid treatment also I need to have clexane injections daily to help thin my blood. Hopefully combined with the steroids my body wont attack or try and get rid of this bub. Yes we got a positive preg test on the weekend! I am a bit shocked at how little I feel about it. I dont know if it is just me protecting myself or what but other than terrible heartburn and sore boobs that is about as much as I am feeling about this preg so far. I know it is early but did any of you ladies feel like this with pregnancies after losses?
Mummytotwo - good work with the weight loss! I love weight watchers, their system is what I always go back to each time I fall off the eating wagon with a thud. Its amazing when you do lose weight how different it makes you feel about yourself. I am terrible with my weight, I yoyo all the time and I am struggling at the moment with the increased steroid dose as I am starving all the time lol. Put that on top of being an emotional eater (if i have any emotion I eat lol) I have put on about 10kgs since losing James in April. I hope to just maintain my weight and just eat healthy this preg and enjoy it while it lasts and lose the weight after bub gets here safely ( I am trying to be positive!!) Good luck with your O day and I hope that you get a sticky bub! You might just be able to make the cut off for flying while pregnant next year if you do :). I am so jealous I would love to go to Scotland - My maiden name is Cameron - so would love to go and see where my family is from.
GiGi - I am so glad snap dragon is settling down for you, puppies can definately frustrate the heck out of you! Have you done another preg test since the other day? I have my fingers crossed for you. I dont really know your fertility issues, and you seem to like the natural medicines, are there other options for you to try? I hope that doesnt offend you in any way. My Dr said there is another drug I can use that is stronger if this combo doesnt work and I was just wondering if there are other avenues for you?
Lions&Bears - Oh honey I am sorry your having such a rough time right now, being a woman sure does suck sometimes. I know we are blessed with being able to hold our beautiful babies inside us and feel all the guilt etc that we cant do what our bodies are just meant to do. It is also not fair that we have all the horrible hormones that rule our bodies too. It would be nice to be free from the ups and downs each month just for a little while. When i was walking into the hospital to be induced to have James (knowing he was already gone) a young teenage looking pregnant girl was smoking out the front of maternity. I just wanted to smack her so badly. I wouldnt even eat bacon when pregnant!! I think all of us on here know what you mean about being more "aware" of baby loss - I swear ninety percent of the books I have read since James have had baby loss in some way in them. I dont know if I would have noticed before but now its like a smack in the face every time. One of the ladies in our baby loss group put this on our private page the other day and I would like to share it with you - be warned you will cry!


I wish you would not be afraid to speak my loved one's name. They lived and are important and I need to hear their name.

If I cry or get emotional when we talk about my loved one, I wish you new it isn't because you have hurt me; the fact that they have died has caused my tears. If you allow me to cry, I thank you. Crying and emotional outbursts are healing.

I wish you wouldn't let my loved one die again by removing from your home his pictures, artwork or other remembrances.

I will have emotional highs and lows, ups and downs. I wish that you wouldn't think that if I have a good day my grief is over, or that if I have a bad day I need psychiatric counselling.

I wish you knew that the death of a child/sibling is different from other losses and must be viewed separately. It is the ultimate tragedy and I wish you wouldn't compare it to other losses.

Being a bereaved parent isn't contagious, so I wish you wouldn't stay away from me.

I wish you knew all these 'crazy' grief reactions that I am having are in fact very normal. Depression, anger, frustration, hopelessness and the questioning of values and beliefs are to be expected following a death.

I wish you wouldn't expect my grief to be over in six months. The first few years are going to be exceedingly traumatic for us. As with alcoholics, I will never be 'cured' or a 'formally bereaved', but for evermore be recovering from my bereavement.

I wish you understood the physical reaction to grief. I may gain weight or lose weight, sleep all the time or not at all, develop a host of illnesses or be accident prone, all of which are related to my grief.

Our loved one's birthday, the anniversary of the death and the holidays are terrible times for us. I wish you could tell us that you are thinking of them on these days. And if we get quiet and withdrawn, just know that we are thinking about them and don't try to coerce us into being cheerful.

I wish you wouldn't offer to take me out for a drink or to a party, this is just a temporary crutch and the only way I can get through this grief is to experience it. I have hurt before and I can heal.

I wish that grief changes people. I am not the same person I was before my loved one died and I never will be that person again. If you keep waiting for me to 'get back to my old self', you will stay frustrated. I am a new creature with new thoughts, dreams, aspirations, values and beliefs. Please try to get to know the new me - maybe you'll still like me.

Source Unknown

I think we can probably all relate to some or all of this. Lions and Bears - I hope you find something in there that may make you feel like the new you is just fine. xo

Dory - Congratulations! I think we were pregnant at the same time a few months ago? I hope I got that right?! I wish for you the quickest, easiest and most painfully boring pregnancy.

Ok I better go and tackle the pile of ironing as it keeps refusing to go away on its own!

Much love to you all lovely ladies and I hope that you are treating yourselves with care and love that you deserve.

EMJ- Congratulations to you sweet girl and I wish you such a wonderful pregnancy and birth full of joy. I especially love the past paragraph in the 'letter' you posted. We do change and that i think is the hardest thing for others to deal with.
Thank you for asking re my issues...yep I am an au naturale through and through. I am sure there are a few options out there besdies the things we have tried and we continue to improve/ research our health. Some of the options though, I am not willing to use and that is just a personal choice. I have Endometriosis and get a lot of cysts...but not PCOS- more estrogen dominance based issues for me. So estrogen has been my battle and I dont really want to lay around with my hormones more than they play with me if i can help it, on a synthetic level. I would rather concentrate on getting my body right. And to be honest that keps me busy but right at this moment i have dropped the ball a bit looking after Snap Dragon and we have given up a bit i think. You do get to a point when i does just get so hard. We have been working on this for about 13 years now and it took 10 to fall preg with DD. A constant journey, i just hope we find the happy ending soon. xoxoxox Not offended at all and i hope my answer doesn't offend either. xoxo Hugs to you.

AFM- CD 4....AF arrived and yep continued to get BFN but thankfully she arrived on time and didn't leave me hanging. So upsetting and so frustrating. Back to the drawing board. Boy i just want to enjoy sex. That is our thought right now. We enjoy it don't get me wrong...don't do soemthing unless you enjoy it! But we want a bit more fun. So I am planning ahead as DH will most likely get to CD10 in five days time and think....Oh right, already, ok, lets ummmm do this then, with nothing up his sleeve. I might go and check out something a little sexy to surprise him...and help make we feel a million bucks too- that wouldn't go astray.

Finding myself having no time for time wasters atm. Frustrating the poo out of me. I am feeling a bit gunho right now and not a lot of patience. Time is precious and life is full. Speaking of which i better get my but off to the lingerie shop and find myself something silky and swish....proper, not tack. oxoxox

Love and luck to you girls

hi all

It's been quiet around here.

Gigi1 - glad to hear miss snap dragon is settling down & you're bonding. I did not know a puppy could tantrum, but then I have limited experience with puppies. I had my mum's pup run off on me years ago - she didn't want to have a bar of me. She's a lovely older dog now though and loves me lots :) Glad you have had a break. bummer about another missed cycle. I found silk works without being tacky. SO lovely to wear and then slide off;)

mummyto2 - good on you for losing weight. It all makes a difference. I imagine it will be quite cool in Scotland in March. We're actually there in a couple of weeks as part of our trip. I am dreading the cold. They get real cold, none of this sooky Melbourne cold :)

EJ - Congratulations on your BFP. I hope you are able to enjoy it. I know a few ladies for whom clexane has helped. Thanks for sharing that piece. This rings so true to me:

:

---

I wish that grief changes people. I am not the same person I was before my loved one died and I never will be that person again. If you keep waiting for me to 'get back to my old self', you will stay frustrated. I am a new creature with new thoughts, dreams, aspirations, values and beliefs. Please try to get to know the new me - maybe you'll still like me.

---

dory - I hope you're well

Hi to anyone else.

AFM. Mostly, I am thinking of BAL and little Jett and praying he gets better soon.

Other than that, I am hoping I am coming out of a dark place. Someone pointed out to me that I would not let a friend speak to themselves or treat themselves the way I have myself. I need to let go the self-loathing and accept that losing our boys is not my fault and doesnt make me a bad person. Not meeting other people's expectations does not make me a bad person. I dont want to use grief as an "excuse" but the basic fact is I do not function like I used to and that takes adjusting to. Grief is hard enough without all this other stuff to deal with.

We've heard the inital results from DS2's DNA testing and they didnt find anything. We have a meeting with the geneticists on Monday and will take the information from that to think about. We'll then be away for 3 weeks and I might suspend my BB account then too, just to have some time off.

If I dont pop in before I leave, please take care.

Hi lovelies,
Not much to say just popping in.
L&B - have the most fabulous trip away. I hope it does wonders for you & at least provides a nice distraction.
Scotland is lovely & yes it will be cold(ish) in March.This will be my 11th trip & I have been at all different times of the year - I like proper cold!!
How do you feel about the DNA tests? I struggle with things like this - would you prefer they find something that explains why something so horrrible has happened or do you be happy they found nothing? Hope the geneticist can give you something to work with. Good luck with it all sweety & hope you find your way out of the dark place. I really do x
Gigi - hey sweets - where are you at at the mo? Did you find something new for your after dark wardrobe? Sex for the sake of sex - now that's something I'm looking forward to once this ordeal is over :) Hope your good anyway sweety....
EMJ - congrats on you BFP lovey. Hope it is smooth sailing for you......Yes WW is a really great program. I lost another 1.1kg this week so next week I will have lost over a stone in 6 weeks. Loving it & hoping weight loss + some magic = sticky bubba:)
A big hello to all you gorgeous girls. You are all in my thoughts xxxx

LAB- oh hun...wise words you have. So so true, we often treat ourselves pretty badly and would never accept a friend doing the same. Boy we can be hard on ourselves. Good on you for stepping one step at a time out of that space. Hard to do but sometimes it can be like a penny drops. Thinking of you.

BAL- Thinking of you love and sending you much strength.

M2T- Sex for sex's sake...such a wonderful thought i know. Going ok love. Congrats on WW hun....tremendous effort. xoxoxoxoxo

AFM- EWM atm and CD14....so wink wink! Doing ok love, good and bad but doing ok. Just had a weekend break at folks place for a wedding. Wonderful wedding and lots of laughs, got some lovely sun, a swim and a cuddle with my nephews.

Hugs to all. xoxo

My sweeties, it seems so long since I have dropped in. I miss you....

LionsnBears - I am just so sad that things are so hard for you... but when you said about letting go of the self loathing, it was almost as if everything made sense, about how you're feeling, and about how I have felt in the past. I didn't realise the depth of those feelings for you. I think you're a beautiful woman, just heartbroken and grieving. I know in the very core of my being that you did nothing to contribute to Leo and Jude being so sick. How is it that you feel you don't meet others expectations? Because you're not "better" yet? I hope you can let some of it go and start to feel less burdened. I am sorry that Jude's DNA results didn't provide a clearer picture for why he got so sick. That poor 24 yrs mother in the cemetry. To think that infant mortality was much more a reaility for families in days gone by, is heartbreaking and not at the same time? Maybe if it were more common we wouldn't get treated like such pariah's?

EJ - oh sweetie, if I had been keeping up in here I would have gotten your splendiferous news much sooner. Congratulations. Ahh, I wish that was all I felt. Blregh ( all day nausea and bloating) and very tired. Last week I was cranky fr days in a row, and that's out of character for me. It's a very hard journey, being pregnant after loss. But for me so far, this journey is very different. I have much less time to indulge in my fears and anxieties as someone else seems to demand and rightly so, get a lot of my attention. And oddly, I am almost not investing emotionally until after 14 weeks? I keep making plans for doing things and somehow in my mind it's ok to do that until I have the cervical stitch as the risk of m/c is higher til then anyway. it's a bit startling to realise that, when with HB every moment even this early was so precious and so agonising. it must be someone else you're thinking of. No BFP's here until this one.

Lady Tess - I reckon 1 meltie in 30 weeks is tops. Chuck in a few more, it helps get all those emotions and anxieties out. I had one today in fact. But still not one of my finer moments. Hugs.

Gi - oh my such wise words. I wish I could have such a way with words. I second everything you said. I hope that DH enjoyed the surprise silky number, and that it helped you both connect with each other as beautiful soulful people, not just as a couple trying to conceive. I hope your world rocked and you both went back for more. Good to hear that you spent some time with the superheros. They are always so much fun. Well not that I have met them, but from how you write about them. I agree about sometimes feeling really connected with grief and welcoming the thing that prompted the tears as a way to keep in touch and feel close to your baby. But that's me now too. I remember being like LionsnBears too where it seemed like an all encompassing conspiracy to bring me down and remind me of my loss. I had a real knack for inadvertently exposing myself to really confronting stuff. In one of my bereavements I hired the movie Marlie and Me, expecting a tear jerker but of the canine variety. Oh no, SPOILER ALERT for those who haven't seen that movie - not long into it and it involved pregnancy and u/s and loss. It happened all the time to me, that was just one of the more memorable. Then I always seemed to turn on that show the Practice just at the time there was some pregnancy/infant loss issue. Took me a while to work out there was always going to be something like that on that show. I don't seem to have done that lately. I don't get a lot of spare time, and my world is pretty small at the mo, so I can't say whether it's just my perspective has changed or whether I am just not as exposed to those things anymore.

Not much to say here really, that I haven't said already about me. I see the Obs on Friday. Today I didn't feel as sick or as tired. So of course my mind is easily led into the spiral of, well if those symptoms are going away then it must mean m/c. Such a dangerous mental precipice. I also haven/t told my mum and feel miserable about it. But my Mum is convinced that i will die during this pregnancy and Hannah will be without a mother as a result of the HELLP syndrome I developed late in HB's pregancy. What a lot to load me up with. But she's also been in hospital quite ill for 10 days, so I haven't told her as I know she would just worry and make herself more sick. We can't choose our relatives huh? I love my Mum dearly, but she has been saying Hannah will be my only child ever since she was born. Don't get annoyed at her for appearing to forget about Amelia, Nicholas and Sophie. I'll tell you why in a mo. But that's over a year of me hearing the doom and gloom version. I know it's just her projecting her worries on to me. That's why I haven't told her yet. I am hatching a plan though to ask the Obs to call her and speak with her about the risks etc. She will listen to a Dr. She won't listen to me about it.

Anyway, don't get angry at my Mum for not acknowledging my angel babies. A little while ago we had a "to do" and I was actually hysterical, completely hysterical. It was justified, but I was just so distraught and angry, and hurt. It was about the time of Sophie's anniversary and things came to a head for me that "no one", I suppose meaning my family, even acknowledged their births, or deaths, or their prengnacies or even says their names. Anyway, my Mum told me that "she can't talk about them because she just keeps imagining what each of them should be doing now, and they're not, and it just makes her so upset that she gets sick, and then she feels guilty because if that's how she feels, then how must I feel? And then she feels guilty that she can't be there for me". Wow, and I just assumed she didn't care about them. It was really heartening to know she thinks about them. Now I just have to help her be brave enough to face her grief.

Once I had some photos I was showing Mum, and included a photo of DH, Sophie and I after she was born. I was cradling her, DH was at my shoulder and we were both gazing down at her and smiling, really smiling. Mum asked me how I could be smiling...... she must have just seen the death and sadness, but all I saw then and still see is our beautiful baby girl. I replied because she is beautiful, and she is our daughter. But it gives an insight into where she's coming from. Maybe I am expecting too much from a 70yr old, but I am going to try my best.

Anyway, thanks for listening. I didn't mean to waffle on so much. Take care my friends. Sorry I missed some of you, I got a little caught up in my own musings.