TTC after Recurrent Miscarriage/Stillbirth or Loss after the 1st trimester SEPT/OCT07

[Mel1977]

SB - Anything to report?

Klee - Hmmm I have to admit that I sort of agree with you on the MIL sitch. I dont think it is anyones place to come into someones home (family or not) and rearrange things. Fine, suggest something might look good here or there but you dont just do it. I wouldnt worry about DF, men tend to stick up for their mummy's a fair bit - you know the whole she was only trying to help thing - but its still your home. The only thing I would say is dont argue it with her cause then you and DF will just argue and you will get stressed out, just put everything back where it was and say that you set up your home the way you did cause you like it that way. But no, you are not being unreasonable, grrrrrrr! Sorry again about your cousin, I hope she is ok And CeCe is right, why shouldnt you post here? You will have a lynch mob after your @rse if you disappear

Ellie - Good luck with everything, hope it all goes well and you can get back to your "plans"

CeCe - I havent heard of the sperm meets egg plan either, so no havent tried it. Spotting can apparently occur approximately 8-12 days after O when you have conceived, so dont give up hope yet. Good luck

SJ - Even 3 hour drives with a toddler is an experience LOL, your brave

to everyone else.

[~StarBright~]

Hello Lovely ladies!!!

Well, AF arrived this morning. But i am ok- I have a plan!! Next month is my month!! (Still need to change ticker)
I am thinking that my cycle might be longer than first thought, around 32 days, not 28 like when i was on the pill. So i have my thermometer and my opk's so i have something to keep me occupied!!
Plus i have a big week at work this week - all the bosses are away, so i have plenty to keep me busy!!

Just wanted to share something with everyone- A very good friend of mine just celebrated her Angel Son Ben's 21st Birthday last week. She was the lady who gave me the Baby Castle Poem i posted a month or so ago. Ben died a few days after he was born- they dont know exactly what happened, but he got very sick and he died. After loosing him, she made a pact with herself that she was going to have 5 kids, - well she did!! (Including him) She had a daughter about a year later, then two more girls then her youngest son. She is one of the best mums i know and in 21 years her family have never forgotten Ben or what he means to her and her husband. Her children all know about him and they all celebrated his 21st Birthday together. She still gets upset some days, and i know she will always wonder what he would be doing now.... but she is gratefull that he is not forgotten. So Happy 21st Ben!!

I will be abck to do personals later!!
StarBright
xox

[shereejoy]

So sorry about AF starbright. We can be belly buddies next month together.

Oh and happy 21st Birthday Ben, what a lovely story......

[Mel1977]

SB - I am sorry that AF arrived, BUT its all in the plan. As Deb once said to me, think about it like its only 2 weeks until you can try again (O time) and I will be having my OPU and ET in about 1 and 1/2 weeks which means we are almost in line... maybe thats a sign?

~ Happy 21st Birthday Ben ~

[Inanna]

I so hope it's a sign Mel.... We need some more graduations from in here pronto! I am stalking you and watching closely - not to mention many prayers and positive thoughts... It's gonna happen my love and wow we will be celebrating!

[Mel1977]

Thanks Deb - I am starting to feel really nervous LOL, dunno why. Just feel a little like its a neverending journey and could I possibly be nearing the end... shouldnt think that way, will jinx myself but its better than being negative I guess.

And look at you - Col will be here in no time (well it wont feel like that to you but...) and snuggling in. Nothing better than baby snuggles

[CeCeSays]

cliff notes are these little cheat books that cover the theme and outcome of great literary works... kids here use them in order to get out of reading an assigned book.

sperm meets egg plan... we used it after our very early m/c and got the bfp 1st cycle. That of course ended in us losing Eli. But we are trying it again. Its a ton of ridgid scheduling but it gives my mind something to obcess about. I will paste it for ya.



SMEP-- sperm meets egg plan

Whether you are trying again after a miscarriage, or frustrated that you can't seem to get pregnant again after a successful pregnancy, this plan is for women who have gotten pregnant in the past, and therefore do not have significant infertility problems that need to be tested and treated. It is also a good plan to try for a first pregnancy if you want to do something serious to increase your chances before finally going in for a doctor visit about fertility.

Even if you have had an easy time getting pregnant in the past, pregnancy tends to change your hormonal makeup, so sometimes timing is not the same as it was before. This plan will ensure that sperm gets to your egg. Whether or not a viable pregnancy results (the odds are about 1 in 4 even if you time it right), is up to nature.

Be prepared for a month of serious loving!

The Plan

Short Version:

"Try" every other night starting Day 8
Buy 10 ovulation predictor kit sticks
Begin ovulation testing on Day 10
When test is positive, "try" that night, plus two additional nights in a row
Skip one night, then do one last "try"
Take a home pregnancy test 15 days after your ovulation test was positive, if your period has not begun
If your ovulation test never goes positive, continue "trying" every other night until Day 35, then do a pregnancy test if your period has not begun.
Statistics coming in from women who write me show that about 40% of post-miscarriage women will get pregnant on the first try if they are faithful to the plan, about double the number of the normal population who are not on the plan. This assumes, of course, that you waited for a normal cycle to begin after your loss, and did not begin trying before having a period after a miscarriage. Many women do not ovulate in that first cycle.
Detailed Version:

On day 8 of your cycle, counting from the first day you bled, begin "trying" every other night. Begin taking Ovulation Predictor Kits (or continue with your Ovulation computer) on Day 10. Buy two five-packs so as not to scrimp on taking them and stop too early. To make sure your OPK is working well, take your test in the afternoon or after work and do not drink any liquids or go to the bathroom for at least four hours prior to testing. (Morning is not a good time for OPKs, which look for the LH surge, which usually happens during the day.) Read your OPK instructions carefully, as usually a faint line does not indicate a positive, you need a line that is darker than the test line. LH is produced throughout your cycle and will only predict ovulation when it has a big surge.

When your OPK turns positive, begin trying every night for three consecutive nights, skip the fourth night, and then once more. Then stop! The waiting begins.

Take a home pregnancy test 15 or 16 days after your OPK was positive if your period has not begun. Do not buy internet pregnancy tests or tests that claim to work before your period is expected. They are not well manufactured and are not reliable. They will only cause you more anxiety than you already feel in wanting to know. Please resist the urge to do a blood test at your doctor's office just to find out sooner unless you have a medical reason to know early. Fertilized eggs that do not grow are actually a terrible but normal occurrence as much as 75% of the time, and seeing a very low put positive blood test in the first 14 days can place you on a terrible emotional roller coaster. By the time a home pregnancy test is positive, your baby has safely implanted and your odds of miscarriage are down to a normal 10%.

Should your OPK never become positive, keep the every other day trying going until day 35. I recommend at that point taking a home pregnancy test, but even if it is negative, you might want to take a quantitative hCG blood test at your doctor's office. Remember that not every women will ovulate every month. I personally did not ovulate for two months following my first miscarriage.

As you are trying, make sure to "release" the sperm in your partner at least once during the gap between ovulation and new cycle Day 8 so that no more than 10 days elapse without new sperm production. Sperm is also a cause of genetic damage, not just eggs, so keep it fresh! If you are not successful the first month, it is not because your sperm did not get to your egg. 75% of eggs are lost within the first 14 days due to normal genetic damage or failure to fertilize. Just keep trying!

Here are a few facts that may surprise you:

Many books tell you that sperm can last for 5 days and the egg for 24 hours. While this is technically true on the very long end (and something to follow if you trying to NOT get pregnant), most sperm will only last about two hours if you do not have fertile-quality cervical mucus for it to swim in. The sperm will struggle to swim up to your uterus, use all its reserves, and not make it. The egg typically lives only about 12 hours, so it cannot wait for long. You can now see how important that cervical mucus is! You will never get pregnant with sperm living two hours and an egg only twelve. This information is really just to make you feel better if you've been trying a long time and all your infertility testing came back normal. If the Deanna-plan does not work and you are faithful to it for three months, take a dose of plain Robitussin cough syrup (or any cough medicine that says "expectorant" and NOT "antihistamine") each day (preferably a few hours prior to "trying") starting around Day 10 until the day after your ovulation predictor goes off. It should help make all the mucus in your body runnier, including that produced by your cervix. (Oh the gruesome details required in baby-making!) The sperm in the runnier mucus will live about two days, and will be up there and ready for the 12-hour life of the egg. A NOTE ABOUT CLOMID: Clomid causes cervical mucus to dry up in 25% of the women who take it. If you notice your mucus is not plentiful as it was before taking this drug, take the Robitussin and call your doctor to make sure your really need the Clomid. If you are ovulating on your own and do not have a documented luteal phase defect, you most likely do not need it.
"Trying" too often can actually do more harm than good. Do not try every night! You will get exhausted and sore, and your mucus--both for fertility and for lubrication--will dry up, and you will stop trying too early in the month or miss an important day. Every other day is absolutely sufficient, with three nights in a row during peak time sealing the deal.

[shereejoy]

Gosh how technical, have just printed a copy to read thanx.

[Inanna]

It is technical and I think it can get a bit stressful. I personally believe that using opk's and then getting jiggy with it when there is a positive (or an almost positive) is the best way of ttc. If youbegin at cd8 and you don't ovulate until cd21 (like me sometimes!) you would walk like a western cowboy by the end of the month and may never want to look at your partner again!

I like that she points out that sperm will only last if they have fertile mucous. Many women believe that sperm will fertilise an egg from intercourse days and days prior - whilst this could be true it is unlikely...

It is a hard road - sending my love and positive thoughts to all ttc on this journey. YOU WILL GET THERE - keep believing...

[~StarBright~]

Hello!!

Well i thought i would have it easy at work today with the boss away- i thought i'd have plenty of time to play- but i have been running up and down stairs all day!! Not to worry- its all good exercise!!!

Thanks heaps for that info CecE- i printed it out too!! Just in time!! I am a bit eager to start this opk test stuff!! Its something i have never done in any of my previous pregnancies, so its something different- lets hope its not the only thing that goes differently for me!! I am no help to about your spotting after o'ing.... i am a beginer there- but my cycle has been up and down and all over the place!! But its constant- its always messed up!! I understood your bit about cliff notes!! And i wish i had a set for life too!!! Maybe in my next life i will remember to bring them!!! I am living in australia now- but i was born in the us- in LA of all places!! My parents are aussies, they just travelled over there alot in the 80's and me and my little brother and were born there. I like it here tho- im not sure if i would ever go back, i think its a little too crazy there for me. I like the layed back aussie life style way too much!!

Sheerjoy Thanks!! I will pass on that my belly belly friends say Happy birthday to Ben! My friend will love that! I told her that i was going to let everyone know. Where are you in your cycle? I'm glad your trip went well. i bet you had a few "Are we there yet??" LOL

I'm hopeless, i keep forgetting what i am going to say to people and i need to check the posts- but i cant do that while posting. GGGRRRR why is my brain so slow??? I'll be back!!!

[shereejoy]

Flowerchild - Yeah well I wonder if that is why we m/c just recently as we last dtd on cd11 as I went away and I felt ovulation pains really strongly on cd16, so sperm lasted all that time, but maybe wasn't good enuf in the end (wasn't fresh)???? Do you generally ovulate at the same time every month? I think I am always a cd16, is that possible? I charted with lachlan and I was regularly at cd16, but since having a child my cycles are anywhere from cd26 - cd29, so not sure if I can count on that anymore. I haven't charted this time even for the most recent m/c, as I just don't want to stress out about it like I have previously. Just another question, what is every other day meant to mean? Is that like every 2nd day?

Starbright - I am up to cd5 atm, so not much longer till ovulation thank god. This part isn't too bad, it is the tww that is the killer.

[angelicdragon]

Cece it is indeed possible o get the pos OPK on the same day as you O as in you get the pos OPK in the morning and then O later that night. I do it just about al the time so I know now as soon as I see lines to 'get busy' (fat lot of good it does me anyhow coz al the timing in the world hasn't worked )

Klee (((hugs))) I am so sorry for your friend. If you can't share here then where can you. We have all been thru a loss and understand the feelings you and your firned are going thru regarelss of whether you are pg or not... there is always going to be the fear for us that if we do ever get pg again it could happen to us.. again.

Smiley I had heard of the sperm meets egg plan.. there are a few variations on it too depending on where you read it lol. If you do a search on it you get a few variations lol.. talk about confusing.

[Lynn]

SB - I am so sorry the wicked witch arrived. Having a plan is the best thing - it brings so much confidence and positive thoughts. I hope so much that next month is your month, I will have everything crossed for you babe Happy 21st birthday to Ben. Thank you for sharing that with us......it was beautiful.

Mel - I hope so much that you are at the end of your journey and about to start your next journey. I feel so positive for you for this month. You are doing everything possible and Deb is so right - we will be celebrating so hard when you get that magically bfp. How are the injections going? Doing them on your own yet Don't worry it took me ages to do it by myself - the thought!!!!!

Klee - I am so sorry to hear about your cousin, my thoughts are with her and her family. This rollercoaster ride isn't easy and it is hard when we hear devastating stories of people losing bubs......and unfortunately you know first hand about losing a bub but stay positive and believe that this little bub you are carrying now IS coming home. We are all entitled to have fears and anxieties, we have been through so much - but we will also be there for each other to support and help each other along the way

Jo - Where are you? Were you going away?...........I think you were, can't remember! Anyway how are you going babe?

Cece - that woman is so insensitive! I am sorry that you had to hear that woman carry on. You sounded very brave to sit there :hugs: I know that some people do spot and possibly you could too. I know it is hard waiting but I hope at the end of your 2ww you receive the bfp you have been waiting for.

Hi to everyone else - sending you all heaps of

[smiley10P]

Good morning everyone,

CECE - I had spotting with my last baby but from memory it was from about 2 weeks after ovulation and it lasted a week. Started off red stained mucus then turned to brown sludge. I had no bleedng for a week and then I had a subchorionic haemorrage/ The Doc's thought I had a M/C , ectopic preg or molar pregnancy. I continued to believe I was pregnant and off course I was, and went on to have a big healthy boy birthed at home. Don't despair (Doctors are not Gods they get it wrong sometimes too). They were even fasting me for a D/C the ultrasound at the hopital was broken and so they couldn't confirm the pregnancy with ultrasound until the next day. Keep praying and hang on to gods promises.

Gee the woman you gave the maternity clothes to. She sounds just like someone I know who complained to me about being pregnant with her third child (it was a whoops a baby). Just after I had the miscarrige and was so insensitive and all the rest, as if having a m/c wasn't enough having to put up with this sort of insensitive behaviour from so called friends. It was like rubbing salt into an open wound, really stings doesn't it.

[CeCeSays]

smiley oh dear LORD I can't imagine how upsetting that must have been. To prep you for a d&c and not have run an ultrasound. I would have been psycho.

I think the sludgy brown spotting may have been residual blood from ovulation. I am on Lovenox (heparin) shots so I assume that I could have produced a little blood when the follicle burst. I am not getting my hopes up for this cycle, though. On the Sperm Meets Egg Plan... we did use it and got a bfp the cycle we conceived Eli. But goodness its a bit over the top with timing. We tried to stick to it this cycle but I have to admit we didn't do the second day after the 3 days marathon. I was, for the first time in my life, sick to death of seeing my DH's little friend.

I am just hanging out in the 2ww... waiting to try again next cycle. Thats how I have to look at it or I think I will lose it.

Mel- I am so excited for you! Its an awesome thing, starting a new journey and I have a reallly good feeling about ya.

SB - next month you will be free from the wicked witch and have a new resident taking up space and remodling.

Hugs to everyone.!

CeCe

[Inanna]

ShereeJoy,
Every other day means every second day. This is often what we tell ivf couples too. It gives sperm a chance to regather! Gives the couple a rest and does not seem to impact on conception. In fact studies show it gives a better chance. Having said that we dtd every day around ovulation - but my dh does not have a sperm issue and I went with my gut. So that's a choice for each couple to make.

OPK"s are strange beings. Basically the LH surge occurs 12-48 hours before ovulation. It is this surge that triggers ovulation to occur. So, for example if you test at 2pm daily (thought to be the optimal time - though many ivf specialists will suggest a morning test) and you get a positive that test could have been positive at 10pm the previous night (it is usual for a surge to last 24hours) so you are never certain when the surge occured. This is why it'simportant to test at the same time each day. Then get jiggy with it as soon as you see a positive (or that night!). This gives you optimal chances of fresh sperm waiting for your egg. Studies show that having sperm waiting when ovulation occurs gives you the BEST chance of conception. That is why the second daily regime is a good idea around ovulation time. Many women will see a fade in pattern where there previously clear opk sticks start to get a second line. If this happens to you that's great and it would be when I would begin the second daily dtd regime.

Women's ovulation isn't static - many things can affect it so it's not a good idea to just rely on what you "usually" do if you are ttc. That is where opk's can be helpful. Remembering that many women will not get a true positive opk. Sometimes testing a few times a day is a good idea (this certainly helped me). So around 10am, 2pm and 7pm seem to be good times - around when you believe you usually ovulate (obviously just prior to when youbelieve youusually ovulate!).

I know for me I would get a darker line at 2pm and a true positive at 7pm sometimes. So, had I relied only on the 2pm I would have thought that my surge was yet to happen. But doing the extra test helped identify the surge. Remembering a line almost as dark is a very good indicator that your surge is about to happen so go for it then!

I hope that helps.

[klee]

morning ladies, sorry just a quick one from me,
mel - its all part of the plan, your next part of your journey is just around the corner, I'm feeling so positive for you too. keep positive, you are doing all you can.]
sb - sorry to hear af arrived, but good to hear you are so positive. i guess with the opks and temp checking just try and remain calm, if you can, its all going to work out, its all part of the plan. Happy 21st Birthday Ben
i will be lurking today, joey phoebus is making him/herself welcome (df came up with a second name he wanted something in memory of joeys sister), feeling a little worse for wear, but its all for the good.

[Auntie M]

howdy everyone.
Starbright- i think la is too much too. not all of the us is like that, thank goodness. nice story about Ben and your friend. happy birthday to Ben. and i'm sorry af showed up, damn her.

Mel- i'm so hoping this will be it for you!

Flowerchild - lol re the cowboy walk on the sperm meets egg plan -- i had the same thought.

Ellie- any news?

CeCe- i'd say, if there is any chance you might be o now even if the test said it was already, i'd dtd just in case. that sperm meets egg plan sounds like a lot of work! could take some fun out of it.

Klee- i think it is your mil who is unreasonable. i don't let anyone move stuff about and even only pretend to listen to dh's opinion so he'll come around to my view on the house. that said, one must pretend with dh and probably with mil as well. then move it back right away! so sorry you had a bumpy weekend. the hormones mixed with grief and terror can be an awful combo. also so sorry about your cousin's loss. try not to apply that situation to yours. if possible. otherwise, give yourself a big hug from all of us! it ain't easy, this ride.

babydust for all of you!