TTC after Recurrent Miscarriage/Stillbirth or Loss after 1st trimester ~ December 07

so i have just got home from my ob after calling into work and saying i am not coming in as i just don't think i could have got through the rest of the day. I was the 2nd appointment of the morning so the lady before me got her babys heartbeat checked and i could hear everything so it already got my emotions going. I saw him and it turns out my blood tests have not shown the cause to be CMV. (finally asked the name) I really thought this morning having something to confirm the reason jack died would actually be ok for me and it seemed the results would shift that way but as it turns out my ob said there was still no definete reasons why he died. He said i am in good health that i have had 2 really healthy previous pregnancies and said he really hoped to see me this year again if i was ready as he had no reason to believe that i would'nt have a healthy preg and baby next time. He said he was confident i could wait another 3 years if i wanted to and i would still be ok. i said we would'nt wait that long and i would hope that we would try very soon. But that the idea of me being preg again was really scary as i would always now be waiting for something to happen. I asked him about my bleeding and he said to wait at least for another AF to come and then i could start ttc as my uterus etc was soft and all back to normal.(:cry: ) He was a little worried about my sleeping habits and told me to see my GP if i continued to stay up really late (i have been up till around 1am most mornings and even tho i am exhausted find it hard to go to bed) as i needed to be in good health and it could start to turn into a mild depression so he is still on the lookout for all of that. He acknowledged that i have been through a shocking experience and he was at a loss of what he could say to help me feel better or to explain. So no answers, feel really ****ty (sorry) and feel like i am not moving forward.

Jo - I am sorry you did not get the answers you were looking for. Like you I also have not gotten any answers as to why I lost my son. When the first round of test results came back (I am still waiting on some blood work) I was so deflated to not have any answers. A very wise woman here at BB told me that even for women who get answers, none of them are really any good. Either way it is still tragic. I am sorry again for your loss and I pray you have the strength to try again.

Barbara

jo - i'm sorry you didn't get the answers you were after, but barbara is right even with an answer you still begin to question. did they do any other blood tests to check for anything else or just the cmv?. i know a few of the ladies here have waited until after 6 weeks to have another lot of bloods taken to check for clotting disorders as these will not show up whilst you are pg or in the 6 weeks after a loss. it might be something to think about.
Have you thought about doing accupuncture or something to help with your sleeping, I was very sceptical about it after my loss but i initially went for stress and found that it helped immensely, in both calming the mind and relaxing the body and also in making me healthy and strong again to think about and even conceive again. Just take all the time you need before trying again, only you will know when and if you will be ready. thinking of you hon, i'm so sorry again for your loss and I'm so sorry you have no answers.

Hi Jo. I am so sorry that you did not get any answers to your questions. I think this is very common unfortunately. I also got the chromosomal results and they were negative. Whilst I never believed there was anything to find, it still upset me to know that I will never find out what really happened to my baby. I think either way, it would be upsetting. Glad to hear you took the day off work.

I am also not sleeping well, and stay up too late and then have trouble falling asleep. Maybe you could look at a relaxation CD, acupuncture (like Klee mentioned) or yoga. I have always had trouble relaxing, so I think I really need to learn some good techniques.

Take good care of yourself and rest up today. I hope tomorrow is a better day for you. Big hugs.

jo76: Sorry you didn?t get the answers you hoped for from your OB and sorry you?re going through all these awful emotions. Even though you know it?s perfectly normal with everything that?s happened these last couple months, it?s still painful.

klee: Thanks for passing on the info about the clotting disorders. I was wondering when i should get tested and I won?t see the FS until next month. But I?m way after the 6 weeks and not preg (having AF right now.)

Thank-you so much everyone for your thoughts. i really don't know what i would do if i had'nt found this site, it has become an invaluable part of my healing throughout this.
i ended up speaking to one of my friends for an 11/2 hrs, who has battled with IVF for the best part of 4-5 years now and felt much calmer. I changed my mood to inspired as i feel a little like that for now as if she can get through her pregnancy (the first long term one after more losses than we can remember) with the strength she has been and the positive energy she radiates, i can def look forward to gaining some myself.
Katie-girl - i agree, we sound as though our experiences have been similiar and i hope your new OB next tues is able to help answer any of your questions and concerns too. He sounds really wonderful!
Klee- i have always preferred to look at more natural ways of dealing with things and the accupunture sounds good (or yoga katiegirl). Sleeping tablets were talked about today just to give me a couple of nights to catch up on sleep but i really want to shy away from that as i don't feel comfortable with it. So will look into some different options. And i have never really heard anything about clotting disorders at all??? So have to admit i am a little naive on that topic.
anthonysmum - it really sucks not to have answers but 2008 i hope brings us both some good news!:pray:
tempus moriendi - i have always been the "things happen for a reason" person but now that they literally have i too have to convince myself to think this way at the moment. i have always been a very positive person i think that is where i am hitting the wall right now.

Hi Jo. I am glad you have a friend that understands what you are going through. You will probably find that you bring each other strength over the next few months. I think it is hard to find positives when you lose a baby, and that is a hard thing to deal with. I was very negative the first weeks, and was angry that we lost out first and have no way of knowing if we will have another etc. I struggle to stay positive, but I find doing things that help me (counsellor from SIDS, naturopath etc) it gives me a lift. I have always tended to be a bit negative, but somehow I have turned that around a bit of late. I hope you manage to find some ways to help you sleep without the sleeping tablets.

My ob is lovely, but I am going to change to a new one in Feb. The new one is Mark Umstad who specialises in high risk pregnancies etc. I think my current ob will be far too laidback for me. Plus he has said that he doesn't think it is necessary to do any blood tests for clotting etc, and I really am not happy with that. Mark Umstad will do all the tests when I see him, so have decided not to push it with current ob.

I hope everyone is doing okay. This time of year really is tough.

Hi girls,

Jo - I am sorry you didnt get the answers you were hoping for :hug: I too thought answers would make it a little easier but the fact of the matter is its hard either way. Before I had answers I thought well if noone knows what is wrong then how can they be sure it wont happen again. Then I got some answers and found I had a blood clotting condition which caused my son to die and then I started worrying because I thought well there is something wrong so there is a chance it will happen again. I dont know if any of that makes sense but either way, answers or no answers, the journey ahead is terrifying and no matter what the next pregnancy will be extremely difficult. For me in the end the fear of not having a child outweighed the fear of losing another iykwim. I am glad your ob seemed so sensitive to what you are going through, believe it or not alot arent - they are in the business of babies and alot of them treat is just like that, a business!

KG - Good choice! He is brilliant!! The ob who saw me through my pg with Nicholas was also not willing to do any testing for me, he told me it was "bad luck" and "just one of those things". I then saw Mark for a second opinion and he found that I have ACa and he will be with me every step of the way this time. Best of luck with it all :hugs:

Sorry to intrude - just wanted to say that, hope you dont mind :)

Hi Mel. You are not intruding at all. And trust me...I love hear good things about Mark. It makes me feel so much better to know that I am booked in to see an ob who does not wait around for MC 2 or 3 before doing tests.

just popping in to say hi.
Jo- i am also sorry you didn't get the answers you were hoping for. like the others said, answers are a bit of an obsession, but don't really help so very much for the psychological part of our grief. we will all always worry that it will happen again. or that something new will happen. the sleepless thing, i think, is so very common for grief. you are so fresh to it, and sleep is one of those things that gets messed up. i couldn't sleep for the first month after Yeti died because of the nightmares i had, but then for the next two months i slept so much that everyone was worried about that. it was my own way of avoiding everything by just not being. big hugs to you on your quest to find a sensible way around the issue.
Katiegirl- it is heartwarming to hear that you've been able to find a "better" spot for now. hang on to those coping methods, they will continue to help you when you need them. bb has helped me feel not so alone and isolated. so glad you have found an ob you can trust. that will be a great help to you to have that decided already. took me until 10 weeks to find someone, and even now i wonder . . .
lots of luck to everyone.

jo - there is a link in one of the loss forums which can help you with which tests to ask for in relation to the clotting disorders. the link also describes other forms of losses which may give you something to think about. i'll find it for you. Not sure where abouts you are in Melbourne but my accupuncturist is inner western suburbs, but I know Naomi one of the other ladies here goes to one in the eastern suburbs so if your either these ways we could give you the details. i too was offered the sleeping pills, i took one at the hospital and i vowed that was the last one i was going to take, because all that something like that is going to do is supress your emotions, and you'll have to deal with it eventually anyway, best to deal with it with some kind of clear head. also have you spoken to sids & kids regarding your loss, they not only deal with sids but prenatal losses, i know katiegirl has spoken to them recently, they have monthly group meetings where you can go to discuss your loss if thats something you feel you need to do. I'm so glad that you have spoken to a friend, its amazing where we can find the comfort and support isn't it, your ivf friend is going trhough something different but ultimately the feelings and emotions are the same. look after yousrelf and we're hear for you if you need us.
katie - i too am comforted to hear you have found a better place, hang on to it for as long as you can, you know you've found it, so if it all becomes a bit much let everything out, you now know you can get back to that better mind set. if you need to feel free to pm me, same goes for any of you girls.
tempus moriendi - mel might be able to tell you what tests to get done too, but as i said there is athread here somewhere. they can still do the tests whilst pg but the results are more difficult to interpret, so its best to have the hormones out of the system approx 6 weeks after i think.
anthonysmum - how you going hon?
look after yourselves

Jo - I am so happy that you are feeling inspired.SOmetimes talking to the right person makes all the difference. I have learned that this is a long journey and we will have our ups and downs. just nice to know you are in an up.

Katie - I am also happy that you found an OB you are confifent in. It sounds like he has a great reputation. I don't understand why some doctors feel like a woman needs to go thru 2 or 3 m/cs before performing tests. It is just insane to me to make someone go thru all this pain multiple times before helping her do something about it. i am lucky that my OB told me that she was running all the tests. i am waiting 2 weeks for the results. also she said on my next pregnancy I will be labeled high risk and will be able to go in weekly for u/s if I need to feel comfortable. it was quite a relief.

Well right now it is nearing 11pm. i am exhausted but can't sleep. it is strange, right after I lost anthony I slept really well. I almost felt guilty about it b/c everyone expected me not to be able to sleep. I think it was becasue I had such a hard time sleeping while I was pregnant (i hate talking about being pregnant in the past tense). between going to the bathroom, feeling uncomfortable, and DHs snoring i was up half the night. Now that some time has passed I can never sleep. SOmetimes I am up to 3 am on a work night, and I have to get up at 5:30!!My mind constantly races with "what ifs" and how the future will go. around the holidays I had to take medicine to sleep, but don't want to do it anymore because I am afraid of becoming dependent on them to sleep. arghhh!! hope others are havign a better day

Barbara

Hi Everyone. Thanks for all your messages. I am definitely holding on dealing to anything that helps me feel even slightly in control. I have my 6 week follow up next week on Tuesday. I know I won't really get any answers, and I know he won't suggest any tests, so I am not really sure what I will get out of it. I am more looking forward to my appointment in Feb with the new Ob. It will feel like I am turning over a new leaf. I am also glad to be changing as it means I won't have to go back to the same ultrasound place - I still have always flashes of the moment we realised Nathaniel was gone. I think that memory will haunt me forever. I feel quite emotional even now thinking about it. So I will gladly never step foot inside that room again!

I think sleeping is a big issue. I have gotten into a bad habit of going to be past midnight and then struggling to wake in the morning. The last few weeks it would take me ages to fall asleep which was agony - as it meant I spent a lot of time thinking things over (and not in a good way). The last couple of nights I have been falling to sleep a lot faster. Now I just need to get into a better pattern again - but I am sure I will have many more restless nights ahead. Maybe you could ask about herbal remedies to help with sleep. I agree that sleeping tablets are best avoided.

We have dinner with some friends tonight. We saw them for the first time on Sunday and they looked so sad and kept asking me how I am. Whilst it was sweet and well-meaning, I had to do everything in my power not to start crying. I told my mother and she got angry - she hates when people get all emotional in front of me. She thinks people need to help me and be strong for me - not make me more upset! I think I agree with her as it really made it even harder for me to stay composed. I hope they don't make those faces at me tonight, as I don't think I can handle it a second time! Oh well, I know they feel our pain which is comforting and I need to focus on that.

Enough of my rant...I hope you are all having an okay day.

i said to one of my other friends today that i jumped on this forum after my Ob visit yesterday and was so touched that people who i had never met had stopped by this link to wish me well etc and she thought that was really wonderful and was happy that i had people that would relate to all of this as she can't. She can be sad as she cares for me but can't directly relate. So first, a huge thank-you to all of you for being so selfless in being on the other end for me with all you are all going through also.:hug:
klee -thanks for telling me about the links in the forum, i am still making my way around so will try and find!I am in the eastern suburbs but i have a specialist for my wrist in the western suburbs so it is much of a muchness really. I'll just jump on the freeway if need be! (although that can be worse!)
katiegirl - it is funny (in a non funny way) that you bought up the ultrasound thing as i have been thinking about that also and wether i would go back to the same place as where i found out Jack had died when i have another baby. For me, the answer is i think i would, as they were so gentle and amazingly supportive after they had told me jack had no heartbeat and i have the greatest memories of the lady doing the 12 wk ultrasound weeks beforehand calling Jack my "beautiful baby" the whole way through and really making it an amazingly personal and bonding experience (i have had a bad experience at a hospital which is private a few years ago and they were terrible, told me nothing during it and it may have well been somebody elses baby they were telling me about they lacked such warmth). So i think because even the midst of a horrible memory there and my race to get out once they had told me, because of the positives i would go back because i do have a degree of trust there now. Does that make sense? Good luck with your sleeping also, i hope it continues to get better for you 1 am is very easy for me to stay up to at the moment but i think a better sleeping pattern would result in a healthier mind and body also.
Anthonysmum - that goes for you too! My OB said it would help me stay healthy esp if i am looking to ttc which really does the perfect sense. (in the midst of no sense right now!)Sleeping tablets are'nt an option for me as i can get a head spin off a panadol so a sleeping tablet would'nt just help in one nights sleep but sleep for a week!Is'nt it strange that as exhausted as our bodies can get, sleep still does'nt come when i feel as though it should be more natural like you said for you at the start.
take care everyone!!!! I AM STILL INSPIRED! YAY!

p/s katie - hope you had a great dinner and it went the way you hoped!!!! It'll be a nice break for you!

katiegirl- ikwym about visitors looks and comments. i call it the "head tilt" because it seems no one can ever ask how i am doing without adding a slight tilt to the head and concerned brow. sometimes i feel like smacking them upside the head to make it go straight again. but then, other times i bring up Yeti or my feelings if i think folks are being too forgetful. they just can't win with me, i guess. if they make you cry, though, i'm sure they'll get the point and be different next time. i've done that too. there are worse things than crying in front of people, although i didn't think so before Yeti died.
barbara- sorry you are having a down day(s). it is no fair, no fair at all to get the sleepless nights anyway.
jo-ikwym about the ultrasound fear - i avoided where we found out Yeti had died, but i still had a panic attack for the first few ultrasounds and damn dopplers this go around. i'm not sure it mattered where they happened, just that i don't trust doctors any more because they never seem to have any good news and can't do anything about it anyway. whatever choice you make is the right one.

Hi girls
katie - IKWYM about the ultrasound. I had an u/s about three weeks after I lost Anthony to check for cysts. It was at the same place as the 12 week NT. I remembered how excited i was back then and how hard it was to look at an empty uterus now. I just made an appointment to see a genetic counselor with my husband. It happens to be at the same place that I had the 20 week u/s and where we heard those awful words "i'm sorry, at this time I can not find a heartbeat." I am sooo dreading going back to the same place. With that said I did love the care I got. My doctor and hospital were great so I am going back.

Auntie M - You are right on about the head tilt with the "how are you?" First of all how the heck do you think I am!! cr@ppy!! but thats not what most people want to hear. they want you to say that everything is grand. anyway maybe i will try the slap up side the head to fix that head tilt.

Jo - I wanted to see how you are feeling. hopefully still inspired.

hope all is well is BB land

Barbara

Hi all. Quick message. Dinner was great and there was no need to give anyone slaps to correct the tilt! Thank goodness.

I also appreciated the care I was given at the ultrasound place, they were lovely and I could not have asked for more caring people. I just hate the idea of going back. I believe the new Ob Mark has an machine in his rooms (others who see Mark - correct me if I am wrong here). I do remember how wonderful the 12 week scan was. We have a DVD of it and you can hear us talking in the background making oohing and aaghing sounds. I asked DH if he thought he would want to watch it again one day (we have put it in the memorial box and have not watched it since before Nathaniel died) and he said we wasn't sure as we sounded so happy in the DVD and he didn't think he could handle hearing it. Sad.... Nice to know though that we have it and will one day if we wish be able to see our baby with a heartbeat and moving around.

Okay have to go - have a meeting. I got to bed at midnight again and struggled to wake. Have to break this habit. It is going to start to take its toll. I am going back to visit my family this weekend (they are in Brisbane) so maybe that will help with the sleeping.

I hope you are all doing well. Jo- I am glad your friend was so understanding about the support go get from this site - and that she understood what it means to you.

Take care everyone.

I can kinda understand why docs wait until after 2 or 3 MC's. Because most women go on to have healthy babies after one MC. Of course, the downside to waiting is that you just don't know what category you fall into--the first one always seems like a fluke and most of the time it is...

Speaking of Ultrasounds - I just got a bill in the mail for the 20 week scan. They never charged us on the day, and as we were there for only a short time we assumed they would not charge (we also thought that due to it being bad news maybe that is what they did). Well we guessed wrong - $210! I hate paying these bills - the hospital etc. It feels awful to have to pay for something that you never wanted to happen.

On an plus point, I had my first kinesiology appointment today and I feel it went well. I had no idea what to expect and it was certainly unusual. I really like the lady and I think it will help me a lot with my health and letting go of past emotional hurts etc.

How is everyone else doing today?

Katie - Sorry about the u/s bill. It doesn't seem fair right. You get the worst news of your life followed by a bill. thanks!! i was lucky that insurance paid for most of my hospital bill with anthony but am still out a few hundred dollars. glad your kinesiology went well.

DH and I are renovating our apartment. new kitchen and bathroom. why is everything so expensive!! arghh! it will be worth it in the end though.
hope everyone is doing well

Barbara

you guys talk of the head tilt thing when you run into people....i get the " ...but you look great though" ummmmmmmm...seriously when i am grieving the loss of my baby looking good (eventho i should as i work in fashion) is not the top of my list. I undeestand it is a thing they are saying to make me feel good but i had a friend come into work who did'nt recieve my email re: loosing Jack and when she put her foot in her mouth accidently she began to cry. it is probably one of the most honest emotions i have had from anyone so far eventhough i went a had a cry in our backroom afterwards because i really felt bad for her! She bought me in flowers yesterday to apologise for crying and all i could do was hug her.
At the moment i am having an uplifted few days. I really think it is still to do with the phone call to my friend so am a little nervous as to when it will suddenly wear off. As that is how it seems to work is'nt it. Even a bit of spotting (yes, it continues!!) is'nt bringing me down right now.
Katiegirl -guess what? A bill for $190! yep, my ultrasound bill reminder, better late than never apparantly. Even my husband questioned it!Hope your trip is good for you!
Anthonysmum - good luck with the renos! We considered it with our current house but decided it would be too much work as it would have been alot. It may be a good thing for you as we have sold ours recently and have to be out on FEB 8 and are actually moving 15 mins away so we are calling it our new beginning. Not that we are looking to forget Jack or anything that has happened but it may be a fresh start for us to help move on. Does that make sense and i really hope it reads as i want it to!so anyway -good luck!

howdy everyone.
Barbara- lol- let me know if you do "manually adjust" someone's head- i'd like to hear about it in action! i have finally given in to saying "fine" when folks ask how i am - until now (almost 10 moths after Yeti died) i've always said "hanging in there." scr#w 'em if they want a better answer.
Katie- glad the dinner went well and good luck at the sleeping thing. ikwym a/b the bills- not the reminder we need.
Jo- take the good days when you can. the bad ones will always come back too, so take those good ones too.

Katiegirl: good luck with your kinesiologist. Is that like a chiropractor?

Anthonysmom: That sounds exciting--renovating. Sometimes it helps lift your mood to have some new surroundings to look around at.

jo76: I'm glad you're still finding comfort from your friend. You learn to take comfort where you can get it, sometimes.

AuntieM: it really does feel like some people don't get it, that it takes a long time to adjust to loss. You don't have to be "fine" with us if you don't feel like it.

its a bit quiet in here. hope everyone is having a nice weekend

Hi everyone. I am having a really difficult time this weekend. It started on Friday night, when I started thinking about how far in the future everything seems (conceiving again etc). Then yesterday, I started spotting again. This means that since the D&C on 5 Dec, I have not had more than 11 days without any bleeding. This week, I had what I thought might be AF but now that I am spotting again, it makes me doubt it was. I just feel so stuck in time. It will be 6 weeks this Wednesday and yet I don't feel that I am any further along in healing pysically. It got me so down and I have pretty much spiralled from there.

Does anyone else ever find it hard to accept that instead of having a baby they have to 'return' to their old lives? I am definitely struggling with that - going back to work and continuing with things that I thought I wouldn't have to do anymore.

Sorry for the depressing post. I am seeing my Ob on Tuesday so will be grilling him about the bleeding I have had.

I hope everyone else is having a better weekend than I am. It is a shame to, as I am visiting my family this weekend. So instead of having a lovely relaxing time, I feel like I have to keep pulling myself together in order to see people.

Katie - I am so sorry you are having such a hard time. I am hoping this latest spotting is AF for you. I bled on and off for 3 weeks. and then spotted a bit in the fourth if I was too active. Have you been really active lately? I was told that could cause prolonged spotting.

Going back to my old life stinks. I constantly think about how far pregnant I should be right now and all the things I would be doing. I get angry when I go have a few drinks with frends b/c I feel I shouldn't be able to. Accepting that this nightmare is real has been so hard for me as well. The healing process is a long one.
When I think about it I can't decide if it was a long time ago or just yesterday that everything went wrong. Today is exactly 2 months since I found out I lost my son. Jan 14 will be his 2 month angelversary.

I went out with friends on Friday night. I have some really good friends who understand that I am still grieving and it is easy for me to be around them. I feel if I talk about Anthony it is ok, I can be myself and won't be judged. (Then I have other friends who don't understand why i am not over it and constantly talk about women we know who are pregnant) Anyway it was a great night. Then Saturday DH and I went out for lunch and I stared to tear up when I saw a woman that had the same stroller that we were going to get for Anthony. My day was shot. I spent most of it curled up in my bed with the lights off. I just want my life to be even again and not so topsy turvy.

Even though I wish none of us had to be here I think it is so good to feel that I am not alone. Every time I think I am the only one and no one could ever understand how I am feeling I just come to BB.
Katie - You are not alone, if you need to vent or "talk" you don't have to apologize. I hope you have a good time with your family.

Barbara

Katiegirl: first of all, you don't have to apologize HERE for feeling depressed. We all understand what you're going through. And how some days you feel strong and other days you just want to crawl into a hole to lick your wounds.

It sounds like your body is trying so hard to get back to normal. It's only been a little over a month, after all. But I know--you want to be your old self again and that's not unreasonable. And yeah, it $ux to have to go back to your old life when you thought you were moving forward.

Just last week when AF started, I went through the emotions from hell--everybody got on my last nerve, even though I knew in my head it wasn't anybody else's fault, just my own hormones making me perceive everybody else as annoying.

The mood swings are very painful. Come here to vent because we understand.

damn it all. i wish i could give you all big hugs. tm is right, it just isn't fair, is sucks and it is such a nasty rollercoaster with no way to get off.

Katie, go ahead and be depressed. it isn't right that you have to go back to picking up your life. you aren't the same now, and why should it be. all of these steps eventually might help get you back to where things aren't completely a gaping wound, but they hurt so damn bad. i cried at least once a week at work when i first got back -- and that was just for the being back at work reason and not all the thoughts going round in my head. big hugs to you my dear. i hope your ob has some answers too. it seemed to take for ever for my bleeding to stop too - it makes it so much harder because we are so obsessed by it.
Barbara- ikwym about "little" things setting one off. i remember seeing a lady in the store with the same pregnancy top i loved the most, and she was buying all sorts of baby things. i couldn't stop the tears, and it took all my energy just to get home and crawl into bed. they aren't so little when they are the only things we have. big hugs.

Hi Barbara, Tempus and Auntie M. Thank you so much for your messages. It helps to know I am not alone. The hard thing for me is when I get down, I tend to then become extremely negative and that causes me to spiral even further. I have always been like that and so now that I really am feeling terrible, it can become quite severe. It also means that DH and my mother find it difficult to help me because I don't want to hear positive things. I think I will speak with the counsellor from SIDS again. I don't want my whole like to become solely about waiting for another baby to come along. I just feel like I am trapped in time and I am not moving forward. I spoke to my sister on the Sunday night (she has had 2 late mcs) and she told me that I need to relax and not get up caught in the technical aspects. Her advise was to just get back trying again. After her first MC (she already had 3 children prior) she fell pregnant again 2-3 months after, and went full term and has a healthy girl. I know she is right, but I find it hard to relax. I always need to know things. She said that it is important that I believe that I can carry a baby full term.

Barbara - so sorry to hear you had a hard day on the weekend as well. I hope you are feeling a little better at the moment.

I was at a lovely shop on Sunday and they had beautiful baby things and the nappy bag that I had intended to buy. It got me down (I was already down but you know what I mean). I kept thinking that I should have been excited and buying something, but instead I could hardly bring myself to even look at them. It is so strange to go from actively looking at baby things and making purchases, to not even wanting to be near them.

I am feeling a little better today. We have our 6 week follow up appointment this afternoon. I am nervous but keeping myself busy working over the questions I have. I am going to ask for a couple of blood tests to be done, and if he doesn't think they are necessary I will get my GP to do them. The naturopath is interested in me getting some tests done, so no matter what I will be having them.

Hope you are all having an okay day. Take care. And thank you all so much, you have been a constant source of comfort and support.

katie - i hope your doc visit went as you hoped...i was a nervous wreck when i went back to mine. there must be something in the water as i to have taken a turn for the worst too. I am spotting also, don't know why as i thought after the horrific bleeding i had that nothing could be left but yet here it is showing up a little tiny bit every day. If your doc told you any reason for this i am interested to know also as it is starting to bug me as i thought my bleeding had stopped. My OB said similar things to your sister, he said there was no reason to believe that i could'nt carry a healthy baby. Just in the case of a devastating loss it is hard to believe that as you can;t see past it. I am at that point now. My IVF friend said that you do though somehow and you do have it in the back of your mind but she said you do get excited about it, so that was nice to hear laos. I guess our own experiences will tell. Aunty M - i agree, you do become obsessed by the bleeding. After a loss all we want is it to stop so we have some sense of "normal" again but then we become obsessed on the other side eventually hoping it does'nt come at all. Crazy how it can completely take over us. But i am a person who thinks she needs the answers also and will always seek them out somehow but this has proven that the answers don't really help for the first time.
I saw a baby in the shop today, as newborn as you could get and i found it really hard to look at him without imaging jacks face and seeing his tiny features in this newborns face. It made me realise how much i want that newborn baby happiness but also how much jack has impacted on me also. I could see his cute button nose right in that babys face and it was horrible. I really don't want to cry anynore but what can you do. my son said the other day that jack would never be forgotton as long as he was in our hearts and i just cried. I told my mum what he said and she said that they talk about him quite openly whne they are around there which is nice.I finally on sunday shared some "intimate" moments with my DH, the first time we have since jack died and i cried after that also. My mind just went numb and the tears just came.
I have had a stressful few days, i think i mentioned we sold our house in nov, then lost jack and then it got to the start of this month and we realised we had no where to live after feb 8th. (settlement) So i have been deserately seeking rentals to tide us over until we find a house to buy and finally found out today that we have been approved for the first one we applied for and that they will let us have our dogs there too. Some good news! So i am madly packing and then of course we have to move house on the 2nd of feb when we get our rental house handover. So hopefully my mind may become busy wih something else. I am sleeping a little better so that is good also but i almost have to force myself to sleep at a decent time. I still struggle to get up, i could find it quite easy to lie in bed for longer than go to work. I used to love work but my enthusiasm for it has gone. i would have finished up in april to rest for his duedate of may 3 and i am very conscious of all of that at the moment. At a 30th i went to on sat night a girl i knew was preg and had this huge gorgeous round belly and i could'nt take my eyes off it. Then my friends mum asked me how i was feeling yet walked away when i was in mid sentence saying it was hard. So then i just felt stumped and wondered why i had bothered to try to open up at all. Alot of people just go weird if i mention his name, yet talking about him as the baby he is to me is what i need to do. sorry for my long post, have'nt been on for a couple of days although i tried yesterday and it would'nt let me post!:wall:...take care everyone! hugs to you all...it sounds like we have all experienced some rough moments lately!

here is a poem my ivf / inspiring friend sent me...i cried but it was wonderful as it was so me at this point. sorry if you have seen already but based on all of our last few posts thought i would write out anyway!

I have just lost my baby
It is hard when you ask "how are you", the normal response to that is that i am fine.
but i am not fine, at best i am a bit fragile and a lot of the time i am far worse.

Don't expect too much of me too soon. If i had a broken leg you would'nt expect me to get back to normal for months.

you probably don't know what to say or how to say it but this is a huge part of my life at this moment and it helps me when you acknowledge that.

Please don't be scared to speak of my baby, because i still need to hear it.

there is no comfort to me when i am told that "time alone will heal" or "you can still have another" or " it was for the best"

having another baby will not replace the baby i have lost.

however weak or strong my faith or whatever your beliefs are , this is not the time for sermons.

I find it hard to believe that life in this outside world is still going on when my private world has collasped around me.

i will not become bitter but it will take time before the weight of my own feelings lightens enough to allow me to share your joys and sorrows

i will have good days and bad days, sometimes i will cope with alot and other times not at all. it may seem illogical to you but feelings often are.

a stiff upper lip mean i have got a tight rein on my feelings, not that i have come to terms with them.

you may not be comfortable with me crying or losing it but that is far healthier than numbeness, which is a sign of denial.

please keep in touch. i will always be grateful for the support you have given me but my grief won't end. An occasional phone call, note or visit will be greatly appreciated.

grief changes people.
i am not the same before i lost my baby and i will never be that person again.
if you are waiting for me to get back to my old self it maight not happen.
i am a new creature now with new thoughts, feelings, dreams and values.
please try to get to know the new me.

Hi Jo. Thank you so much for that poem. It is exactly how I have been feeling. I identified with every single line. Especially the part about the stiff upper lip meaning that I am controlling my feelings, not that I am over it. It has also helped me in that I do tell people 'I'm fine' or 'I'm okay' because it just seems easier most of the time. And I am so sorry that your friend's mother walked off on you after she asked how you were. People can be so insensitive without even realising what they are doing, or what effects their actions and words can have on a grieving person.

I am so sorry that you are having a tough few days. Reading your post, I kept saying, yes I feel that, yes that is happening to me. It is like you and I are in sync with each other. I also enjoyed my job, but now have to make myself accept that fact that I am not leaving (and at times it makes me angry). I also am sleeping better, but still staying up too late and can hardly get out of bed. In fact this morning, I had to get up at 6:30 to drop the car off for a service, and then I got stuck in traffic on the way home and now I feel like I need a nap!

Life can be challenging at the best of times, and right now is no exception. I have my DHs 30th party coming up on the long weekend, and I know I will be getting a lot of 'sad eyes' and head tilts, and then also I have to be prepared for the people who say nothing and appear to have forgotten. I will be seeing many people for the first time so it should be a bit tough. Plus, one of our friends are due 2 weeks after what would have been our EDD. We have not seen them yet, and I am nervous about it. I think it will be a reminder of what I should be looking like etc. Thankfully my best friend is coming from Sydney, so I will get her to hold my hand throughout the night! I don't want it to be a downer for my husband.

Anyway Jo - I hope you have a better day today. As for answers from my Ob there really weren't any. In regards to the bleeding he said it is normal and there is nothing to do but wait. As long as you don't have a fever etc. He said if after 2-3 months I am still having bleeding and a messed up cycle, then he would suggest an ultrasound. Unfortunately I think it is a waiting game. Which makes it hard if you want to start TTCing again.

Katiegirl: yeah, I know what you mean about spiraling down. I do that, too, if I"m not careful, but it's encouraging that you recognize it and have a plan--to talk to your counselor, to focus on more things than just babymaking, etc. I'm pulling for you and good luck with your appointment.

jo76: it's hard getting back to real life, with people's comments and questions and stuff. sending a cyberhug. Thanks for sharing the poem.

Katie - sorry you did not get more answers from your OB. I know you will be seeing the new one soon, so I know that will be better. IKWYM about not wanting to be near baby things. Shopping for baby stuff was the greatest feelingin the world. especially when it was supposed to be for your own baby. Christmas was so hard b/c everyone I know has kids and shopping was almost unbearable. you are also right about the waiting game. i feel that it is all i do these days. wait to be normal. hope your DH bday party is good.

Jo - sorry about the bleeding. I bled for about 2-3 weeks. it went away and then bam spotting a week later for a few days. like Katie said now we just wait. hope the moving and packing go well. don't overdue it. remember your body has been through a lot.. i too need to talk about my son but see people cringe when I mention his name. i find it theraputic. i am lucky to have a few good people who know how important it is and ask me about how I am feeling often. They also call my son by name and give him the respect he deserves. Jack is and will always be your son. and thank you for the poem.

Tomorrow I have a conference for work. i am a special education teacher. we have big assessments coming up and have had meeting in september and then again in november. In sept it was the day of my NT. it was so exciting. in nov it was the day of my 20 week scan which went so wrong. i remember being so excited at my conference as I was going to the hospital for the scan later that afternoon. now I have to go back and see these same people and think of all the would have been. I agree with you ladies work is very hard right now. I think about APril and going on maternity leave. it would have been perfect because i could have taken the rest of the school year off and then spent the summer with my son before going back to work in september. now we are starting all over. sometimes i feel like i was never pregnant at all, like it was all a dream.

hope all are doing well today

Barbara

Barbara: those little reminders and things of your life before can be so painful. Sending you a cyberhug.

:hugs:thanks TM

Hi Barbara. How did the conference go today? It is really hard having all these hurdles to jump. Just as you think you are having a good day, you then see a baby item that you had intended to buy etc, and that can cause so much heartache. I hope you got through the day and that people were kind to you. :hug:

barbara - i really hope that your conference went well also and that there were some parts of it that helped get you through the bad ones. We have a work meeting coming up next month so will be in a similar postion. we had a big meeting a week before jack died and everyone was so excited so will hard to have to "explain" again to people more so that i work with.
I had a reg customer some in today and she had been going through a bit of post natal after the really recent birth of her little boy so had'nt seen her for awhile. the last time i saw her was 2 days before she was due and i was 13 weeks preg. and she to was so excited and said she had been thinking about me / about my pregnancy and so came in today to show me her son and to see how i was. I practically stuttered over the words that i lost him and she stood there with tears down her face so then the tears that had welled up for me started too. But unlike most people she asked about him, how big was he, what was his name, did i get to hold him. She said she would say prayers for me and it was such a wonderful thing for me to finally feel as though someone really wanted to know who he was. She said she will make an effort to come in regularly again to check up on me and make sure i was ok. Truly wonderful!!!!but then of course she left and i went out back for a big sook. i was hurt but happy to have someone really acknowledge him. So it seems people will still keep coming up that i have'nt had a chance to tell yet which will keep it all in my face even more right now. And i am STILL having slight spotting...

Hi Jo - I am glad that what could have been a very difficult situation turned out not too hard for you. It is wonderful to know that some people are able to just let you know how sorry they are, and it is lovely that she asked about Jack. I also got an email today from an old friend who lives in Brisbane - I thought I had sent her an email letting her know, but she obviously did not get it, as she asked how the pregnancy was going. I am thinking we will have to get used to these instances. I have not had a face to face meeting with someone who doesn't know, and am dreading it. I am worried I won't react well.

I hope your spotting stops soon. Mine appears to have stopped (for now at least) and I think....that I may even be ovulating. Not sure what is going on...cycle is all messed up. My naturopath has me taking my temp each morning, so hopefully she will be able to explain it all to me. I have no idea what it all means. I am tempted to try TTCing over the next couple of days, but am on so many herbal meds that I am worried they could cause problems. Too much to think about.

Take care everyone