Atheism/agnosticism?

[C~Q]

I like the water analogy too, when I think of a God I always think of him/her/it (!) like the force of nature.

My views are very confused and complicated! I am Jewish but not religious. I was born Jewish so will always be a Jew. I think of myself as a Jew, as part of a race of people and not part of a religion IYKWIM? I would love to believe in God giving commandments to Moses etc but I just find that I can't. It seems that people watch magicians on TV and say "wow, how do they do it" believing it to be a trick and yet they believe unequivocally in water turning into wine and people walking on and parting the sea. I don't get it but as I said, I wish I could.

I believe there is something guiding us and helping us occasionally but we control ourselves and our destiny.

[The[cookie]Doctor]

I believe there is something guiding us and helping us occasionally but we control ourselves and our destiny.

I agree with Rachel, whilst DF and i have both been brought up catholic, neither of us have any particular belief in it. There i things i would like to believe, but when you see hurt, pain, suffering it's difficult to, and then yet, when you see it, it's like hoping that it really is for some greater purpose, so to speak.

DF and I are going to baptise 'jellybean' catholic, whilst we both believe that it is fair for the child to have it's own opinions, once it is old enough, the both of us were both brought up to do the rituals, and also feel that it may as well have a knowledge/belief base in something as well... It's a very conflicting thought for us though.

I know this is mostly irrelevant, but even though Dan Brown is an atrocious writer, i quite enjoyed his two books surrounding religion. No matter how fact, fiction, true or controversial they may have been, it was something that i could say gave me a different perspective. And when i was skeptical of believing in anything, it was enlightening to look at it in a different light. I do want to believe that science, darwin, evolution etc & a god, or many gods, or a 'divine power' that is a central bond to the universe, can both exist, i've just seen no proof of the latter and therefore it is a biased opinion.

DF and i have discussed with friends, the conclusion was...
"It can be presumed (seeing as there is continuing advancements in scientific discoveries), that there is an infinite number of galaxies, and an infinite number of universes, and an infinite number of bodies that survive and live there, so it is fair to assume that there is an infinite possibility that a god, or many gods, or something exists, it's just a matter of personal belief of whether it exists here..." IYKWIM

I'm hoping this made sense!

[Roryrory]

i do not think morality is tied to organised religion. I know many, many moral athiests. The rejection of or questioning of God need not mean the departure from morality.

Hoobley, like I said I haven't read the book yet but when I discussed this thread with DH and mentioned Bath's comment about Christian values, he reminded me about a part of the book he told me about where Dawkins has apparently looked into the morality of non-Christian peoples (pygmies in the Amazon for example, with no connection to western culture at all). He (or someone else, probably an anthropologist) has hypothesised that morality is in fact an evolutionary by product - we wouldn't survive as a species if we coupld work harmoniously in groups, etc.

Ryn I think the reason why "hard" science doesn't marry well with "creationism" is that creationism still presupposes that there was an intelligent god who in some way directed or put into place the elements necessary for creation to unfold. I can see how from a Christian POV evolution could be part of God's plan, just as a scientist could see God or a god in creation. But I think from a strictly atheist POV (taking atheism to be as much a matter of "faith" in there being nothing as anything else) you could not see creationism as akin to evolution.

From a personal perspective I was raised a Christian and when my dad was diagnosed with lung cancer when I was 8 I started getting right into Sunday school and church. Problem is my religious education teacher didn't take the opportunity to discuss with me anything other than what I call the "child's view" of Christianity - Jesus loves little children, pray and He will listen, good things happen when you are good. My dad died when I was nine so I was totally disillusioned and have been a non-believer since (obviously now due to slightly more complicated reasons LOL!) But I find it a shame on her part that my teacher wasn't a bit "smarter" in how she handled the situation.

DH and I will raise our children to know about all religions, more so that they can understand other people's motivations and beliefs and function well and tolerantly in society than so they can choose their own beliefs. I am right into reading about Islam ATM because as an Aussie kid growing up in the 21st century I think that is one social force my children will definately need to understand and appreciate.