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Mmmmmmm.....nothing quite as bitter and obscure as a fallen Catholic. What a misguided thing to say. This may very well be your experience with the people you know, but I also speak from the outside looking in. And you're wrong about Catholics as a whole. You're dead wrong.:
I don't agree with everything that encompasses the catholic faith - that's why I'm not one. But don't get nasty about it and think it's acceptable to throw in a cheap shot just because you used to be one.
:backtotopic:
LOL at the swimsuits! My DD wears a full-body swimsuit because when she's in the pool i want herto stay warm long enough to have a good time swimming and not have to get out shivering after 10 minutes! We are in Scotland though...
One man's modesty is another's shame, that's just perception. DD is very modestly dressed in the pool i suppose but although i hate seeing breastless girls in bikinis i don't actually choose her suit on THAT basis, only on the practical basis of warmth. She does own suits others have bought her which are more bathing suit shaped than wetsuit shaped and i don't veto them, she just likes to be warm too i guess. I mean, i don't like her in pink but she is loving the pink right now and is happy to say so so i don't think i've crushed her inner sense of style...
There is a lot to be said for women covering up. As Brontide points out, rates of self-harm and eating disorders are MUCH lower in countries where most women are covered. Having said that the rates are way higher (though still lower than non-muslim population) among muslims living in western countries, whether they wear hijab/abaya etc. or not. This seems to be because in muslim countries where most women are covered it is well understood that how you look is not who you are, whereas in western countries this is not how society thinks and it is much harder for girls to grow up believing it when they are surrounded by western culture. In all honesty, even though i live in a western country the muslim women i know definitely have some of the healthiest attitudes to their bodies. I can remember complaining about my thighs once to a friend who laughed and said "Who thinks about their THIGHS!?". It's refreshing to be around that sort of indifference to the physical state when i'm otherwise bombarded by the usual rubbish from the media in this country.
Different attitudes, perceptions and beliefs widen the world and it's views. Imagine how dangerous it would be, how narrow and closed, if we all believed or were required to believe the same thing...
Bx
WOAH what a generalisation... Off topic, but the Catholics I know (a total of 4 couples, so by no means a decent sample size lol) are gorgeous and accepting. Just because the Pope believes something, doesn't mean all Catholics follow like sheep.:
especially in my experiences, catholics, are quite biggoted against people of other religions
Not sure if this off topic but I have a question... so a 13yo girl should be allowed to walk out of the house in anything? Like a mini-skirt, g-string, and mid-drift showing top, because she wants to? I personally don't think thats acceptable, I do think she should be more modest, and as a parent I *would* impose my views there. But in your opinion, would I, as a parent, be wrong?:
a child should be given that option to display thier bodies to thier level of comfort - not told that they have to be covered up because of what their church/parents deem is morally acceptable.
But if I believe that my faith is the only way then I'd be doing my children a disservice if I didn't teach them that. I was brought up Christian, of the more conservative kind (Baptist), but I was also taught to respect other people and their beliefs. I intend to teach my children the same way. I went to Catholic school and my best friend there was an agnostic, I went to university with people who were Catholic, Anglican, JW, atheist, pagan and I don't know what else and I got on well with all of them because their particular faith did not make a difference how I saw them as a person. Tthat's not to say I've only ever gotten on well with everyone I've ever met but religion has never been the reason why I've not made friends with someone. I have also met people of many religions who have been close minded and intolerant, and atheists who have been as bad too.:
As for the whole swimsuit comment, well I find there an example of the intolerance the poster claims religious people have. So what if they're taught to cover up? You believe that someone's body should be celebrated but that is only your belief. I don't have a problem with body image but I don't want to share my body with all and sundry. I am not ashamed or embarrased by my body but I feel more comfortable when dressed modestly and that is something else I will be sharing with my daughter. I think the whole "celebrate you body" thing is part of modern Western society. There's plenty of people in other cultures who walk around half naked not because they see it as somehow more worthy but because it's their cultural norm.
I probably have more to say (rant, LOL) but I have to put the baby to bed.
Celebrating your body doesn't to mean showing it off to people (who generally don't matter). In this household we celebrate our bodies by being kind to them and being thankful that all our bits and pieces work well.
I'm a bit puzzled still, that covering your body is seen as something forced upon us...
misguided? the fact that i used to be a catholic means that i can comment on some of the people that i came across, and i didn't say catholics as a whole, because honey, i havn't met catholics 'as a whole'.:
and it wasn't a cheap shot, i said IN MY EXPERIENCE, therefore, as it is my experience i am entitled to say it.
i laugh that the majority of you have attacked me for my opinions, and said that i am misguided and biggoted, but i have clearly stated that i do not judge people on their religion - and yet most of you have judged me.
I don't think it is acceptable either. I think all of our religious beliefs taint the way that we act, behave, including raising our children. Infact I am beginning to think that it is nearly impossible to act independent of these beliefs. Beliefs will guide the way you dress, and that in itself sends a message to your child. I think it is irresponsible to be not guide your children (especially in areas of modesty) for fear of imparting your religious beliefs on them.:
Okay... I will attempt a reply....but it is after a 10 hour day of work, so if you need clarification, please ask.
Our experiences are that we are Christians, but not born to Christian families. My family went to church growing up, but BUT did not practice Christian beliefs within the household. I don't consider affairs and infidelity to be a part of Christian beliefs, so I don't say I grew up in a Christian household. DH's family were anti-Christianity. So we have our beliefs on our own accord rather than a tradition built from our family.:
Is it right / fair / meritious to raise your child in a particular religion as the one true religion? For example, to raise your child as a christian / catholic / buddhist ONLY, and not introduce or teach other religions. To clarify, the opposite of this would be to attempt to educate your child about all religions, and allow them to choose for themselves when they are older.
In saying all that, we bring our kids to church when we can make it. We pray at night with the girls before bed.... we pray positive affirmations over our girls every night. We don't ask our girls to pray with us, if they want too they can, but we don't ask them too. We have decided that they will do this with us as a family, until they are old enough to take care of themselves at home and decide they don't want to come.
Matilda actually asked about a lady she say wearing a head covering the other day why she was, and I said that some people believe that is something that God wants them to do. She asked me if it was something that God wanted me to do, and I told her He hadn't told me that yet, but if he did I would. I told her other people believe different things about God and that some people don't believe in God at all. She didn't ask anymore, and I didn't offer anymore. I'm happy to answer questions, and relate things as what I believe... so if she asks me questions about God I will say "I believe..." rather than say "The truth is..." because although I believe it to be the truth, I want her in her maturity to make her own decisions.
*breath* Now.... my top belief of all time is that God has called us all to Love. So in my role as a parent to her, my job in the religious stakes is to show her how to love EVERYBODY. People from other religions, people of other races, people of other social status, people of other sexual persuations ;) etc etc etc. Its what I believe the most strongly. That is something I will urge onto Matilda from now. I will show her in my actions and I will urge her to do in her life as well. Love everybody. I don't want to hear her talking negatively about another person unnecesarily, not on.
Now this brings us onto the other topic going at the moment which is about the swimsuit. :rolleyes: sorry.... To me and what I believe (again because this is all about me :p) I think if its what the Dugger's do... its what they do. Its not how I would handle it, but *meh* it doesn't hurt them does it? I believe we should love out bodies and respect them enough to not have to reveal too much. I love my body, I don't need to show it off in order to feel this way. I do like to cover up at the beach, mainly because I feel more comfortable and it really isn't about how much skin to show... its about enjoying myself at the beach. I wear a one piece in the pool because to me its about exercise... not about what I look like. With my girls... I will encourage them to appreciate the body they were given and to wear what they want within reason. If they want to wear mini-skirts, than I will offer leggings.... I want them to think high enough about their body's that they don't need to flaunt them.
You are right Boobooloo some of your comments are really offensive.
Attacks, negativity about any religion are just not on. Regardless of what you say you have attacked using your words, another faith. I too am speaking on behalf of myself not as a moderator.
My daughter is converting to Islam. One of the things I love is the modesty she has adopted. She has a beautiful body - she's not ashamed but I am glad she's not flaunting it!
Judgements on rituals, beliefs and worship are not okay.
sorry, I posted twice. I'll probably come back and fill this in later.
i have just reread all of my posts on this topic, and other than my swimwear comment, i don't believe i have made a comment that is in any way insulting. as i have stated, many times, my intent has never been to offend. as i said in my first post in this thread, i want my children to learn and appreciate all types of religions, and make an educated choice on what suits them in their own hearts. i am not going to intentionally offend a religion if i want my child to be able to experience what it has to offer if they choose to partake.
and sunflower, other than my swimsuit comment, i haven't attacked any rituals, beliefs etc of any particular religion. yes, i did comment that in my experience catholics are the first to judge, once again, i grew up catholic, i went to catholic primary and secondary schools, i did all the communions etc, and yes, i believe i am entitled to the opinion that i came across alot of biggoted catholics. this was not a generalisation on catholics as a whole, it was of people that i encountered.
on the body topic, i am not a body flaunter either, and no i don't want to have my daughter flaunting her nude self around when she's older, i just think that i bodies aren't something that we should feel we have to keep hidden for fear of retribution. and no, you're right, i haven't researched muslim religion in great detail, and as i stated earlier, more power to adults who make the decision, i applaud your decision, especially in a western society, i just like to think that kids have a bit more choice.
once again, i have not meant to intentionally cause offense, and if you can point out to me exactly where i have then i'm happy to hear your opinion. however i have probably copped more personal atttacks than i have dished.
There is no retribution in Islam for dressing immodestly. As i understood it women are not expected to be eye candy fo men, or to compete amongst themselves for status based on their beauty or the appearance of their clothes. Freedom From and Freedom To can both have wonderful benefits. Would you rather be free to flaunt your body or free from being judged on your physical appearance? Free to dress in a way that advertises your personal wealth, or free from being judged based on your financial situation? Does that make sense?
From the perspective of the Muslim women i know Islam doesn't demand modesty of them, it offers it as sanctuary. I would guess it's probably the same amongst many groups who dress modestly - it's not about forbidding anything, but rather about allowing a person to exist beyond their physical appearance.
boobaloo i think people react personally when they feel personally offended. I understand you have met many catholics as you have descibed, but those people are not these people. It's like if i said i'd met a lot of black people who were bigots or asian people who were theives. The fact that you know bigots who are catholic doesn't mean catholicism causes bigotry, it's just that bigotry knows no boundaries and exists in all groups, all walks of life. I think people are just reacting strongly because they feel you are selecting their faith, such a personal thing, to attack them through. FWIW i was not offended by the swimsuit thing either particularly. I know why i dress DD the way i do, misconceptions of those looking at her aren't really on my radar.
Bx
1. Let me apologise - not all fallen Catho's are 'bitter' and 'obscure'.
2. Lols about the 'as a whole' wording. But we all know what I'm driving at.
4. I'm sorry Boobaloo, but trying to prove that you used to have lots of Roman Catholic brownie points does not justify your offensive comments. I was offended for my husband, my in-laws, and my extended family. They do not fit into the mould of your observation, or 'experience' as you put it.
5. The ladies with no religion are probably looking at all this thinking thank goodness they have nothing to do with it! Totally! I suppose it's a lesson in how quickly things turn sour when you're talking religion!
Moving right along.....!
There is no need to respond to perceived offense with offense.
I agree. Whilst I tried to point out that I thought some comments were offensive, name calling is not necessary. I can see why topics like this rile people up, but really we don't need to be nasty to each other. State your claim fine but leave it there.
Just my 2c.
Boobaloo, I really don't think this thread should be turned into a thread about arguing over opinion (and I'm not one for quoting and pulling apart posts), but if you feel the need I'm happy to discuss it further with you privately :)
Maybe we should try to get back on topic.
And if anyone feels that something specifically in this thread is offensive or a personal attack please remember the little red and white icon to the top right of every post is the report function and everyone is entitled to use it. And if a moderator feels it is inappropriate it shall be edited.
niliac, i stated my opinion in my first post, and i complied within what the thread was about. i have recieved comments made about my opinions and have since defended them, as is my right to do so - i have not tried to make this thread a battle of opinions, i've simply defended my own.
Okay - modified to accommodate all audiences.
I'm off to make some milk ;)
Just wondering if there are any of us, who as a CHILD, practiced a different religion to their parents? Or while living with their parent, practiced a different religion to their parent, and whether any issued arised???
Interesting thread!
I have a question which relates to a point that BW made - that in some faiths the prospect of salvation is intrinsically linked to the following of one's faith (I hope my understanding of this is right, but my understanding is that in Christian faiths one cannot attain salvation without knowing Jesus - is that correct?).
My question is, having raised your child according to your faith - what happens if they, of their own choice, decide to follow a different path, one without faith? A path that still follows the principles and morality that your faith teaches, the only difference being that they do not have faith. How do you reconcile this? Is it possible to reconcile your child's choice and be supportive of it whilst remaining true to one's own faith?
FWIW - I ask this question genuinely out of curiosity, it is not intended to challenge anyone's beliefs. The reason I ask is because I am atheist, whereas my family, particularly my grandparents, are staunch practising Christians. Despite their own strong personal faith and their adherence to the teachings of the Bible, they accept and respect my atheism without challenge, and I have often wondered how they are able to do this within the context of their teachings.
Ladies, particularly in areas as potentially emotive as this, we need to post respectfully, without aggression. Let's lift the tone, and continue to move on with a productive discussion. xo
oscar - I practiced a different religion to my parents...but as I said earlier, neither of them were overly religious to begin with, dad certainly wasn't.
Mum was quite Catholic, and had very little understanding of/for or interest in learning about anything else...so I chose not to talk about it too much. I didnt need her understanding or approval, and I actually quite liked the thought that nobody knew much about what I believed :)
Will be back alter to address other things :)
I can't say that I knew anyone who had a different religion to their parents. I have to say, this was never an option for me. I actually didn't even think about other religions/belief systems until I left home. One of my parents was (and still is) quite anti-Islam/Muslim. It irks me so much how intolerant she can be and still preach to be a good Catholic.:
Suse, you are correct in that Christianity does teach that the only way to be saved is to accept Jesus as saviour and follow him.
I can't speak for your family, but if Sam were to grow up and reject Christianity... while I may be able to show outward acceptance, there would be a great deal of inward grief and I would not stop praying for him to change his mind. Christians have this sneaky habit of praying behind your back, you see, and I'm sure that's the reason I ended up becoming a Christian myself.
BW
Okay. Now I believe that salvation comes through Jesus yes. I also believe that if one of my children, chooses on their own to believe something else, or do not have faith I will probably be a bit sad in their choice (being TOTALLY honest and raw here everyone) but it is possible to reconcile their choice and be supportive. Because, as I said in my earlier post that got totally ignored (again see my point, it is all about me!) my truth in my beliefs is that God has called us to love, above all else. To me and not to be trying to bible beat etc etc, but Jesus said "They will know who you are for your love for each other" didn't just mean other Christians, but other people. Jesus loved others from other walks in life, he demonstrated that pretty clearly... so if we don't do that, we aren't truely following him. So I may be sad to not be sharing this with them would be just that, it will not mean I don't express love to them, the way they need it.:
My question is, having raised your child according to your faith - what happens if they, of their own choice, decide to follow a different path, one without faith? A path that still follows the principles and morality that your faith teaches, the only difference being that they do not have faith. How do you reconcile this? Is it possible to reconcile your child's choice and be supportive of it whilst remaining true to one's own faith?
ETA: oscaroscar, DH was faced with a huge amount of opposition from his father for following Christianity.... and continued to face that opposition until his father passed away last year.
For me, yes that is true - I believe that my salvation can ONLY be secured my putting faith in Jesus' ransom sacrifice, and following the Bible to the end.:
My question is, having raised your child according to your faith - what happens if they, of their own choice, decide to follow a different path, one without faith? A path that still follows the principles and morality that your faith teaches, the only difference being that they do not have faith. How do you reconcile this? Is it possible to reconcile your child's choice and be supportive of it whilst remaining true to one's own faith? [/QUOTE]
While I don't have a child, I do have 2 sisters that have chosen a different path - one of which is on BB and may or may not make an appearance in this thread :) But I have had to come to terms with the fact that according to my religion, there will come a time when she is no longer here. While I desperately wish she would come back to our religion, I respect her as a person, and respect that she has made her own choice. Believe me, if she ever decided to come back I would one of the first to help her, right behind my parents I think! But forcing someone to believe defeats the purpose, and proves nothing.
The only problem I have with reconciling her choice is that I don't understand how we could've been brought up in the same household, and have gotten such different ideas, or understandings on the Bible - but I guess it comes down to personal perspectives :)
I hope I've helped answer your question Suse, and if I've caused anyone offence, please PM me :)
Suse, my personal take on this question would be that I would not want to drive my child or grandchild away from me and if discussing religion would do that then I would leave the topic alone. That does not mean that I would be happy with their choice, I would probably be devastated that they have chosen to reject what I believe to be the only way to salvation and have therefore chosen eternal death (OK people, just stating what I believe, no judgement intended). Nevertheless I would continue to love them. Oh yeah, and also pray very hard that their eyes might open and they would return to the faith they were brought up in.
This is where I hoped the thread would go. I am a christian. If my child did not follow christian beliefs, then according to the bible, I would have to conclude that s/he is not saved. This would break my heart and cause much anguish! However, I am aware that I cannot force or cause my child's salvation, I can only share my faith with them and pray. Given this inability, I would love and cherish my child, and do whatever I could to keep them in my life, having them know they were loved, and hope that my life would eventually show them the truth and convert them. What else could I do? Failing to accept them and love them would probably push them further away from the religion I believe to be true, because I have been a bad witness. However, I would have to love and accept them, without accepting their beliefs.:
I understand that this is different to the approach that Deb (FC) outlined she has for her children. (No judgement on you Deb, I just have a different opinion here :)). I guess this means that at times, the house rules that I set down, and the behaviour that I accept, would clash with my daughters free will (if she chose not to follow my beliefs).
crying baby brb...
I grew up with atheist parents, and I followed up christianity on my own. I went to church, they did not. At one point the minister and his family would pick me up on the way to church. I am no longer christian but even though they weren't they never stopped me. They never made me feel my faith at the time was wrong. And I am very grateful because they taught me to appreciate all religions, and never ever made me feel as though atheism was the only way.
It never even occured to me that DD1 wouldn't share her faith with me. Doh! How young were you when you decided to follow and practice a religion other than your parents?:
Thank you everyone for such honest and heartfelt answers. :hug:
One thing that my grandma said (we have discussed this in some depth), that has always resonated with me, is that 'that's why they call it faith - it's either something you feel inside or you don't.' She is very comfortable with her own faith, it guides her and strengthens her, but she has never expressed any sadness (either outwardly or by allusion) that I do not share her faith, only gladness that I have my own sources of comfort to see me through difficult times. So I have often wondered how she manages to reconcile this - perhaps she too does struggle with it internally but is very good at not showing it :(
Christy, the passage that you have quoted perhaps is something that also resonates strongly with my grandma - she is very good at loving without barriers.
I did, my mother (and grandmother) had turned their backs on their pagan heritage (even though my mother was one of the most spiritual people I knew and had some amazing power), so I grew up with Mum & Granny being CoE, dragging me along to church (youth group was the *bomb* - the best time, hot boys, drinking, smoking, great friends), heck I was even an altar girl - it gave me an understanding of the christian path, my SIL was also catholic so I used to get dragged to church with her family when I used to visit on holidays - I love the totally pagan rituals in the catholic church (also in the high anglican churches) - which has probably lead to my current pull towards ceremonial/high magic. I've always followed my path, it has seemed totally "right" to me, as I've gotten older more things have been opened to me, more of my power becoming available, teachers arriving when I need them (like my GD group and I'm also about to start doing some sex magic):
My Dad's Mum is a mormon. Dad was excommunicated years ago after he married Mum (he was asked to go to a meeting if he wanted to continue in the church and didn't turn up). However, Nan has said that in the mormon church they can baptise you by proxy, even after you are dead, which then 'saves' you and lets you enjoy the good life. So, although she would like Dad to follow the church now, even if he doesn't she will try to get him to the good side eventually.:
This thread has shown that some people try out different religions over their lifetime and sometimes return to their childhood one at some point or incorporate some of their early beliefs with new ones. As a parent, you never say never and although it might hurt if your kids are trying out new religions/beliefs over time they might work out their faith beliefs, and they may be stronger with a deeper understanding than if they had never investigated.
I don't want my kids to believe what i believe because i tell them to, but because they have worked through it themselves and come up with their own conclusions.
Just to run off on yet another tangent here...lol *how unusual for me*
Just pondering kids having different faiths to their parents and Deb's situation with her daughter taking up an Islamic path...
I understand that you are happy with that and will support her whatever she chooses, which I think is wonderful.
With reference to the question of how do parents reconcile their children's faith if it goes in direct opposition to beliefs held by the parents. We have focused a lot on the Christian/Salvation aspect of this, but I have been musing about how I would feel if Charlotte took up path that led her to people that perhaps would have been brought up with such a singular and intolerant view of religion, or had some beliefs (be it culturally or religiously) that affected how they perceive the roles of men and women, health, children, life basically.
This isnt making sense! lol I am trying not to offend anyone. So I will just say it - please dont be offended anyone, I hope what I am asking will be clear, I am taking the thought to the enth degree here...lol
Deb, how would you feel/handle a situation where your DD continued her path as a Muslim woman, and that led her to marriage with a very strict Muslim, with views about women and their roles in family and life that were in direct opposition to yours and how you had raised her as an empowered female?
Obviously her choice in the matter is paramount and if she chooses such a path then that is wonderful for her and her happiness. But how would YOU deal with her marrying a man who believed that she should be subservient to him? Or married a man who was raised in Saudi Arabia and they returned there and its very strict laws? How would you cope if she were in a situation that she chose and accepted as how things should be if her daughters were circumcised?
Like I said, these are obvious extreme examples I am using to illustrate the point. I am by no means suggesting that Muslim men are all abusive or that the faith itself dictates some of the more sensationalised aspects of many Islamic cultures. Just trying to see the extent to which ones endurance in such a delicate personal situation could stretch.
I am not sure if I could be fully supportive of Charlotte if she put herself in a position of disempowerment to any man or faith, if that makes sense. So I suppose this is the dilema of how religion can impact cultural practice. Where it is not the faith itself that sets up a situation, but rather how that faith is interpreted and effected by those who follow it?
I went through a phase when I was about 13/14 where I decided I would try and immerse myself in God's Word. I wanted to be Christian, I wanted to belong to that, I wanted the hope and love it offered. I tried very hard, began attending a Pre Vat II Catholic Church. That lasted for about 12 months.:
I then began to realise that i was pretending? That something was amiss. That I was not getting a clear picture and that I was finding I was seeking not the Word, but the Faith.
I so deperately wanted something to believe in. I had a pretty heavy time in my teens and really wanted to believe in SOMETHING I wanted that devotion I saw in so many people of different religions...I wanted to believe like the Benny Hin followers on TV lol
So I started going to a revival church? They had a band and a big love in sort of place. Lots of arms inthe air and tears and amens - very gospel I suppose. It was great! I loved it. I felt something and it was wonderful
I think this is where I lost my mum lol She is not into all that stuff, was raised and schooled by nuns,etc and very catholic, although she didnt attend church or anything anymore.
But yeah she would roll her eyes at me - which thinking now sounds really horrible, but I understood her and never felt disencouraged. She knew I was going through a phase and knew it woud pass and it did very quickly! I didnt feel the substance.
So then I all of a sudden appeared to be with new people with new ideas whne I was about 16 - and immediately it felt right.
But you cant tell your very straight mother about the Tree of Life and Skyclad rituals in the moonlight...or about the Tuatha De Danann and Faerie...lol So I didnt.
Mum knew I held different beliefs, but it wasnt until she was diagnosed last August that we had a talk about how and what I believed, and she could understand how I was dealing and reacting to her dying through the faith I had Druidry.
I hope your DD will share her spiritual journey with you if you want that, but trust me when I say that it was not a negative experience for me. I felt the freedom to try new ideas on and see how they fit, without anyone knowing my every move, or feeling I would be judged as fickle...It was freedom and that is the essence of how I came upon the path I am one- through embracing and seeking true freedom of my mind from others.
**sorry for the epic response! Felt the explanation was necessary**
If my DD grows up to be very religious (given i am not, but the same would be true if she grew up to not be religious when i was) i would not question her so long as she was happy. The same as if she grew up to be homosexual (which i'm not) or very attached to material wealth (which i'm not) or incredibly interested in her appearance (guess what, i'm not! lol!).
To me the relationship a person has between themself and their Faith/God/Allah/Source/Love - whatever they know It to be - is incredibly personal. More personal even than their relationship with their partner. It is NONE of my business what my DD believes unless it is causing her pain and making her deeply unhappy (i.e. if she was in an abusive relationship, which God tends not to go in for). Every person, IMO, has a right to their beliefs. It is easy for me, because i do not believe my way is the only or right way (and i understand why those who do believe that DO believe it - i.e. the quran, bible and torah all state it to be the case, i'm not implying the belief is baseless) so there is a lot of wiggle-room for me. DD could believe a lot of things without it overtly challenging me. I don't have the answers, i don't know the truth, part of the gift i give her by having her at all is the opportunity to go out into the world and see if SHE can make sense of it.
Oscaroscar i was raised by non-relgious parents but had 2 Christian phases, one when i was 8-9 and one when i was 19-20. I began asking "but why do they believe that?" when i was 4 though. My father is an engineer and he demanded i explain my beliefs but loved me despite his inability to understand (it was his probing which highlighted to me the fact that i was "pretending" as Limeslice put it). My mother regarded religion as a crutch, because of HER life experiences, but i know she didn't necessarily think it a worthless one because she included a psalm and a reading from the book of revelations in her otherwise Humanist funeral plan to comfort those friends she had who were Christian.
Bx
"Just wondering if there are any of us, who as a CHILD, practiced a different religion to their parents? Or while living with their parent, practiced a different religion to their parent, and whether any issued arised???"
Yep, but I think I already answered this on for you in my first post lol. No issues, but then my parents believe in re-birth/re-incarnation not heaven so I gues eternal damnation wasn't anything that played into it.
Interesting question though, I always wonder what some people would do if their children turned their back on their parents faith. I think theres this huge expectation for children to adopt the same practice/faith, and I think that when theres no room for movement or flexibility thats when you get kids hiding their faith or deliberatly turning on things they see as connected to that faith in protest IYKWIM. I'm only saying this because it's what I've seen, and I think its interesting words for thought.
Oh interesting question Lime - I am with Bec. Unless the choices Jazz makes are causing her pain (emotional or physical) then its not my place to say she is wrong. Different isn't wrong, its different. I would ask her if she is happy, and if she says yes, and i can see it, thats enough. As long as she is loved, loving, happy, respected and respectful to others, then I would be happy and proud!
LS, that is a very interesting question indeed.
Even if your child never leaves your religion they can still take paths that are, well, bizarre. I was thinking something similar the other day, I know a Christian woman whose husband fell into the hands of a Christian cult. They started off appearing helpful and nice but soon started telling them how to live their life and turned him into a controlling, verbally abusive man. The advice she got from all her Christian friends? Leave him, now! Unfortunately she didn't :( as her beliefs are very anti divorce or separation. How would I handle that if this were my daughter? I would become the interfering MIL everybody hates. I couldn't just sit back and watch even if she claimed that supporting her husband in this made her happy. I would be in there with books, tracts and Bible verses to convince her that the Christianity this group preaches is not the same as that of the Bible. I would be offering real, physical assistance (he took away her car). And, of course, praying A LOT.
This is my take on what my child or any other person in my life may choose wrt religion:
I am not God. My faith is based on my interpretation of what I read, hear and see, and my own experiences. Not being all-knowing, I am in no position to judge anyone else or their life. So how can I write someone off because I do not see their path as being the same as one I would choose? I believe God judges everyone on their merits and is able to take into account all things in this person's life. BUT if I am not true to what I believe, then I would think I am falling short of what can be expected of me. Including in the way I raise my children, regardless of the paths they choose. I agree with Christy, I believe the most important thing is love, and this is what God considers first and foremost.
To illustrate: I left the religion of my parents because when I went to those in authority with a serious problem that they could do something about, they did nothing. Instead, rumours about me were spread and clearly there was no love or Christ-like behaviour among them. It may have been specific to that congregation, or it may be indicative of the entire church, I do not know. But I left and eventually (after a period of non-faith) found a place where all of those things that I believe to be Christian exist, albeit imperfectly. According to my childhood religion, I am excommunicated and devoid of salvation. But they don't really know what God thinks, so they could be right or they could be wrong.
So if I had died while following the first faith, would I have been granted eternal salvation? What about while faith-less? Or now, with my current beliefs? See, to me, I am the same person and this has just been my journey of faith. So if I am worthy of eternal salvation, I believe God will know my heart at each stage, regardless of outward appearances or claims. And if Islam is in fact the one true religion, will Allah judge me harshly because I did not grow up in an environment where I was taught these beliefs and have not examined them for myself? What about those people living in communist China, or tribes in Africa? How are they to evaluate all religions and choose the one that is right?
I personally don't think God is as black and white as that. I think he takes into account our hearts and our spirits outside of our cultural and societal teachings and exposure. I think being true to yourself and what you feel in your heart to be right and spiritual is the best you can do, and God expects you to do your best.
(I should add that I do think there are clear boundaries inherent in humanity and all societies that preclude someone practicing extreme, inhuman behaviour, whether they think it is 'right' or not.)