Religion

[Heaven]

Don't know where to put this. No threads on religion that I can see.
As I said in another forum, I am reading the Bible at the moment. Decided that it's something I wanted to do at least once in my life. Turns out it's really interesting. I have always considered myself Christian but never really read the bible or anything much, thought it was all old language and boring and I couldn't understand it. Until someone gave us a wedding present of the new international version of the bible. The language is so much easier to understand than the King James Version I read at school.

Anyway, I have discovered a lot of things I didn't know already (and I'm not very far into it). It seems like a lot of the traditions we have today are not really based on the bible. Which is kind of annoying as this is what I've been doing all my life.

Christmas, Easter, etc are not found anywhere in the bible. There are actually other holy days that God told people to celebrate. Many people think that these are old and not meant to be done today. But through my research I have come to the conclusion (for myself, personally) that I should be acknowledging these holy days. Not saying I'm not going to celebrate Christmas or anything, as that's what my family does and I quite like it. Anyway, also the food laws I never knew about!! Read a lot of research about this too, lets just say no more bacon for me.

Anyway I was just wondering if there is any one else out there that has these same views?? Follows the same laws of the old testament, etc. There doesn't seem to be many people. Not wanting to offend anyone either, of course this is my own personal view of things and what I understand from the research I've done.

Any comments or anything would be much appreciated as I find this very interesting. I love hearing about our history and other religions, and what other people celebrate and believe.

[Lulu]

Most of the traditions upheld by Christians date back far, far before Christianity and have been worked to suit. Easter for example. The introduction of Christianity was really a political move.
If you are interested in where the tradtitions come from look further back. I treat this as a historical thing, so you can't offend me!

I celebrate the changes of the seasons in small ways but my main celebration is Christmas not for religious purposes but I get to see my entire family under one roof for 2 days!

I like to hear about others traditions too.

[Heaven]

Yeah, it seems like from what I've read Easter and Christmas were pagan celebrations and then some dude made them into Christian celebrations hoping to convert pagans???? That's just what I've read. I'm treating it as history too bc it actually is and is very interesting.
Seems like there are other days we should be celebrating instead but these got changed to christmas, easter, etc in order to convert more ppl????

[Yael]

We are orthodox Jews, so we celebrate all the holidays mentioned in our bible (the first testament.. we don't really refer to it as old, as we obviously don't feel there was need for a new one - in a non offensive way)

Anyway, there are 2 extra holidays we follow, that are found in the prophets/writing section (the festival of Purim ('lots' in english, found in the book of Esther, and the festival of Channukah ('lights' in english, not sure where this is found, but i'll look it up)

Anyway, so in order of our year this is what we follow:

1. Rosh HaShanah (New Year), around September/Oct time
2. Yom Kippur (Day of atonement), 10 days after the new year
3. Sukkos (festival of Tabernacles or Booths or something like that?), 5 days after Day of Atonement
4. Channukah (Lights), December/Jan time
5. Purim (Lots), around March
6. Pesach (Passover, exdus from Egypt), around April
7. Shavout (Pentecost), around May
8. Not really a fesitval but we have a period called the 3 weeks (which are around June/July), which start and end by 2 fast days (17th of Tammuz and the 9th of Av), it is the period of mourning for the destruction of the Temple

There are a few little things also thrown in, i.e. we have 7 fast days (5 are for 12 hours approx, and the other 2 are for 25 hours - Day of Atonement and the 9th of Av)

Hope this explains what some of the festivals mentioned in the bible are.

I only know a little about Christian tradition, but as Lulu said, historically Christmas is basically an amalgamation of all pagan festivals that were put at that time... Google it for more info.

[Bathsheba]

C.S Lewis, author of The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe helped me make sense of the bible and Christianity... before I discovered his theologial (religious) writings i didn't really know how best to interpret the bible. It's still a good read though. Good thread

[Heaven]

Thanks, Caro, it really is interesting. And I hope this thread doesn't get out of hand, I was a bit wary of posting it, but curiosity got the better of me and I want to know what people think. Hopefully we can discuss it in a sesible way like all other threads, I am confident that we can, I wouldn't post it on any other forum than belly belly.

Thanks for the info Yael. It seems from what I've read the festivals that christians were told to celebrate were:

Passover
Days of Unleavened Bread
Pentecost
Feast of Trumpets
Day of Atonement
Feast of Tabernacles
Last Great Day

And the Sabbath of course (Saturday)

Not surprising the same as Jewish ppl (although u have extra specific to you) as we are from the same origin and same god (as I understand).
I'm not sure why many ppl don't celebrate them. From a Christian point of view, Jesus celebrated them during his time and we are told to live by his example but are not following them? That's got me confused, lol.

[Lulu]

Constantine is the culprit.
Henry 8th introduced the Church of England so he could get married again.

[Loula]

Just wanted to add that i won the top 100 and the bible was number 27!!!(Yes now i have 100 books at home)so it must be an interesting read. have thought about reading it as i am very interested in all religions and am open to them all.(but not a 'good' reader!)

i have very close jewish friend that i bombard with Q all the time and hindu and buddiest ladies at work, i find it all really interesting.

I feel People can learn many things from these readings.

Just to add religion is a very hard subject for all i remember when i was about 13 on holiday with a friends fanily and we meet two Northan ireland brother who after finding out my religon didnt talk to me, i was so upset, you can guess what i am ???

[Heaven]

Yes, that would be the 'dude' I was talking about, hahaha.

[Pandora]

I was hoping that Yael would comment in here, as the majority of tradtions in the old testament are Jewish.

As far as Christian traditions go, Easter is supposed to be somehow related to Passover, and occurs on the first Sunday after the full moon, after the Equinox

I have always been really interested in Religion (all of them), well since high school anyway. I hope this topic stays on track as its seeming quite intersting thus far.

There was one point in history where they nearly decided that anyone who wanted to become a Christian, first had to convert to Judaism (which I know discourage conversions) before they could become a Christian. I'm not sure but I am thinking Paul had something to do with this? I could be wrong though.

[Yael]

The festival of passover & days of unleavened bread are the same (it goes for 8 days, but the first 2 and last 2 days we keep with the same laws as the sabbath, but i think technically they are 2 different festivals that we now call Passover...) would have to go through all my notes to explain about the days that the exodus happened on and why the festival is the way it is

I don't know what the 'feast of trumpets' is (i think it might be Jewish new year, but do you have a reference for it and i'll look it up in Hebrew??) or the 'last great day' is (reference??)

We also keep the sabbath (Shabbos), we don't use electricity, cook, drive, um, do a lot of stuff (sounds like we are Aimish or something.. we turn on lights before hand)... That is from Friday night (before sunset.. in melb it starts around 5.00 now), until Saturday nightfall (around 6.10pm)

[Bathsheba]

I agree, nearly all religions have something postive to offer. What I like about my DDs school is that even though it is an Anglican school they teach a little about all the religions. Sometimes I get upset at friends of mine who say that religion isn't an important subject at school because like many have said here, it's such an important part of human history. If you don't know the basics of the religious development of humanity then you can't really understand history... you can't separate them... you need to know both to make sense of both.

[Liz]

I believe those of Jewish faith still live by the 'old' laws because they don't believe that Jesus was the Messiah. Jesus coming as the Messiah brought the Mosaic Law to an end, so Christians aren't bound by the weekly Sabbath etc.

And it's very true that 'Christian' holidays are steeped in pagan tradition. Jesus birthday is unlikely to have been in December, it was all just combined with other pagan festivals held in December to become Christmas.

[Heaven]

Yes, Sabbath is the same, friday sunset to saturday sunset. But less strict, don't have all the extra jewish laws iykwim. The bible just says rest and do no work so I guess its up to the individual to decide what that means for them whereas you have it all written down I think????
With the passover, christians have the passover as feast day, and last day of unleavened bread as feast day (instead of first 2 and last 2 days).
Also, christianity sees the 'old' meaning of the feasts (e.g. for passover exodus from egypt) and also the 'new' meaning (e.g. jesus was the passover lamb). So, all of the 'old' (sorry, don't know the right word) events that are celebrated by the festivals are symbols for what happened in jesus day and what is to happen in the future. Does that make sense??

Found these references on a the internet, haven't actually looked them up yet:

Feast of Trumpets: Leviticus 23: 23-25, Matthew 24: 30-31, 1 Thessalonians 4: 16-17, Revelation 11:15

Last Great day (or eigth day): Leviticus 23: 36, John 7: 37-38.

[Pandora]

Liz, thats what I thought too, WRT Jesus existing, not Messiah.

I was tracing back through my family tree recently as there was a possiblity that I was actually Jewish, but alas a pesky man got in the way, and I've not had the time to check whether his wife was Jewish yet. oh well. Given that DH was raised an atheist, I doubt he would share in my excitement.

[butterfly_warrior]

One thing I've always wondered... if the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus took place at passover, and both are based on the lunar calendar - why are they not at the same time? And again, why do orthodox christians celebrate easter at a different time to the rest of us?

BW

[Heaven]

Liz, true, the holy days are from the old testament and people believe that the old laws etc were all done away with Jesus coming.
But after reading some stuff and researching I'm now thinking that the old laws weren't actually done away with. Have you read anything about it?? Interested to hear what you think??
Here's an example of something I have read, doesn't really explain much, just an overview, but maybe can explain better what I am trying to say, not very good at explaining things, hahaha.

Those aware of these festivals generally believe they were meant
only for ancient Israel and ceased after Jesus Christ’s crucifixion. They
assume these days simply pointed toward Christ, and they think that,
since He lived on earth 2,000 years ago, their importance has long
since passed. Most people consider these biblical festivals as nothing
more than relics of history with no relevance to the modern world.
Believe it or not, the Bible itself contradicts these commonly
held views. An objective look at the biblical record reveals that both
Christmas and Easter—the two main observances on the Christian
calendar—are nowhere to be found, except where passover is mistranslated as Easter in Acts 12:$ in the King James Version. Surprising
to many, the New Testament shows Jesus Christ observing God’s
Holy Days, with Jesus Christ’s disciples following His example
many decades after His death, burial and resurrection.
The teaching of the apostles in the years of the first century after
the resurrection also differs from most people’s assumptions. The
apostles’ instructions reveal a God who intended for all christians
to observe the biblical Holy Days—for a remarkable reason.

[Heaven]

Butterfly, I think that there was some kind of pagan holiday around passover, so they changed passover to that day and called it easter, to try and get pagans to become christian?? So they had festivals on the same days?? And actually incorporated some of the pagan symbolism (easter eggs) and stuff, and got rid of some of the passover stuff.
Something like that.
There's lots of stuff on it if you google.