Religion

[Ca Plane Pour Moi]

Some things I do find interesting:

God created animals in this order: fish, reptiles, birds, mammals, humans.
Evolution states animals evolved first as fish, then reptiles, then birds, then mammals, finally man. It does not explain why monkeys didn't die out as an evolutionary dead-end.
I do think that God could have used evolution, but it would have to be God-driven as mutations these days just seem to cause illnesses, not cool X-Men powers.

Marrying within a family (incest) was not prohibited until the time of Moses. This was because of recessive genetic illnesses. As Adam and Eve were created perfect, therefore with no genetic mutations, their children could intermarry without negative effects (other than a certain ewww factor nowadays!). By the time of Moses, enough mutations had crept in to mean this was a bad idea.

God told the Isrealites not to eat meat that would go off quickly and poison them. He also gave rules to kill animals so they would be safe to eat and not kill His people - they didn't know about bacteria, but they were still looked after.

God also told His people how to kill mildew (knock down the house and do not live there for seven years). Yes, a bit extreme, but I still think that's better for you than using Cillit Bang.

In fact, most of the laws are completely explainable by science nowadays, but would be inexplicable back when they were written.

[Heaven]

Amazing hey Ryn. That's enough evidence for me! All of these things could only have been known by God back then, science didn't discover them until 1000s of years later. Enough for me to believe that God is real.
I also find it more believable that God created the universe rather than 'nothing' exploded resulting in everything that we see around us.

[paradise lost]

SaraJane i'm about to leave for a wedding so i can't talk long but i wanted to tell you that spontaneous generation HAS been observed now, in lab conditions, at the atomic level. This isn't proof of how the universe was formed, it just shows that COULD be what occurred.

I am not convinced by evolution because i don't see enough evidence for it, but i do not believe what genesis says is factually true (though i imagine it has figurative and/or idealistic truth) and i reject intelligent design as a theory outwith Christianity because any theory which says "the proof of the theory is the theory itself" is NOT science.

We can see in our DNA that we are far closer in type to apes than we are to, say, ivy plants, and i think the answer to our genesis lies in our genetics somewhere.

As far as global warming is concerned...my father works in the energy business (generation engineer) and i'm afraid that as far as i can see, global warming is a direct result of our abuses of this plant, whoever made it for us.

I'm a bit of a geek, can you all tell?

Bec

[Lulu]

An endangered butterfly (somewhere!) has just been discovered to have mutated to avoid a certain bacteria that was killing all the males of the species. This mutation has come about within 5 years (amazing), rather than the hundreds like first thought.

another nerd in da house!

Sorry - back to religion. I put down the bible in school when it was apparent there was so much baby killing.

[Heaven]

Lulu- just found what you were talking about. This has happened before.
Something I found about it, don't know if it's the same, but it seems that way from what I've read about it. More like natural selection than evolution.

Variation within a species is common, as we see in the many breeds of dogs, cats, cows, etc. A frequent example of "evolution" used in text books is the variation of the peppered moth. Prior to the industrial revolution in England, dark peppered moths were rare, the light colored ones were common. During the industrial revolution, factory soot covered tree trunks where moths landed. The light colored moths were now more visible to predators, thus their population decreased greatly, while the dark moths were now less visible to predators and multiplied.
Textbooks say the light colored moth evolved into the dark colored moth during this time. Is this evolution? No new species resulted, just a variation within the species because of natural selection, or survival of the fittest.

I tend to agree with what others have said in that there's just not enough evidence of evolution for me and it's still just a theory. Personally I find creationism more plausible.

[cruemum]

I am wiccan. Was baptised catholic but became wiccan at 19.
My boys will not be baptised any religion as my husband and i dont want to force religion upon them.
i respect everyone's choice of religion.
Just dont like people forcing it down my throat.
Blessed Be

[paradise lost]

Cruemum i'd love to hear more about your faith.

What Wiccans believe about to where we all came from, evolution, etc? You worship nature, is that correct? I dabbled in white magic as a teen (which i was led to believe was related to wiccan faith, is that correct?) but i stopped when it got a bit to effective for comfort!

What are the tenets of your faith?

Bec

[Mumma2three]

I definitely like to believe there is a higher power, but I don't believe the bible. To me it is like any story. Im sure some of the characters are based on real people, but I say based on.
I am catholic, non practising, and was brought up in a private catholic school. I really didnt mind it and I loved saying prayers before each lesson. LOVE being grateful. I also love some of the traditions, baptism especially. I do pray, and I am very spiritual, but not religious.
I do have my own beliefs, but they are not something I can explain. I am very accepting of others beliefs as long as they're not pushed on me. I think religion should be something of deep value to a person and if you believe, there should be no need to "convince" others. (I say this because my inlaws are born again christians and I have NEVER come across such a pushy religion. I find it astounding).
Each to their own, it all comes down to faith. Faith is an amazing thing, but I think you can have faith in anything you choose and shouldn't be made to feel like you'll suffer if your faith isn't in God.
xoxo

[Bathsheba]

What I find fascinating is that nearly all religions and faith have a set of rules (which I guess simply map out "common decency") very similar to the 10 commandments:

1. You shall have no other Gods but me.
2. You shall not make for yourself any idol, nor bow down to it or worship it.
3. You shall not misuse the name of the Lord your God.
4. You shall remember and keep the Sabbath day holy.
5. Respect your father and mother.
6. You must not kill.
7. You must not commit adultery.
8. You must not steal.
9. You must not give false evidence against your neighbour.
10. You must not be envious of your neighbour's goods. You shall not be envious of his house nor his wife, nor anything that belongs to your neighbour.


Does anyone really struggle with any of these?

One of the reasons why I kinda reluctantly conceded that there must be a higher power is that no man could have come up with a set of rules like this... or could we?

[Lulu]

Politics is a power.....

[cruemum]

Hoobley, yes wiccans believe in the power of mother earth and are governed by nature.
if you watch "charmed" half of it isnt true.
Lots of people think that ther is black and white magic, that isnt true. there is only magic and it is the witch who decides it's direction.
Most people who dont understand or know what it is about assume wiccan has links to Satan, which it doesnt.
If you have any other questions contact me privately.
have no problems with questions.
Blessed be!

[Bathsheba]

Can I just ask Catherine... does the Wiccan faith have a set of guidelines like the 10 commandments that kinda helps people get along?

[Lulu]

I think the commandments were definitley written by man, because its all about man iykwim? There is no reference to the earth, nature, protecting all beings within it and following the guidance of the seasons and celebrating all it gives us.
I don't think you can have one without the other.

Cruemum - would you mind answering questions on the board at all? We have had such terrific information and clarification of our own understanding of various religions discussed here, and that certainly applies to your faith and ideas too. If you wouldn't mind ?

[Tracey]

We are Balinese Hindu, slightly different to Indian Hindu...

Basically we live by Karma....
Other than that it's lots of music, dancing & like a pantomime!!!

[Bathsheba]

Lulu: I know, I was wanting a bit of clarification regarding Christianity's stance on the environment too... why is there so little about respecting our planet? I did read somewhere (can't remember where) that Earth is only meant to be a temporary home for our souls... that it is finate... kinda like a placenta in the womb... and that when God deems that humanity has reached a certain level we will all be "born" and that it (Earth) won't be necessary anymore. It sounds so brutal hey? But at least it also kinda answers all those people who criticise couples who choose to have large families... you know... all those people who say that population growth is bad for the planet etc. God said "go forth and multiply" *shrug* oh I don't know... I think it's right to respect the earth for future generations and to celebrate the seasons etc... I think it can be done in harmony with being a Christian.

[Heaven]

One of the reasons why I kinda reluctantly conceded that there must be a higher power is that no man could have come up with a set of rules like this... or could we?

No I don't think they could have, especially so long ago when these commandments were given.

[Bathsheba]

C.S Lewis says in his book "Mere Christianity" that the rules God has given us are like mathematical rules. They might have been documented by humans but were not really created by humans. He gave the example of how we all know our multiplication tables....We were taught them at school but people growing up on an isolated island would also eventually work them out for themselves and apply them to their lives too... it's not something that you can change like deciding to drive on the left or right hand side of the road.

So... because so many cultures and religions share what is essentially just rules of common decency... could they perhaps be universal/divine? Are some things Right regardless of what anyone says? eg not stealing?

[Heaven]

Hmm...I hadn't thought about the environment.

Genesis 1:27-31
27So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

28And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
29And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
30And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so. 31And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

I reckon this means God gave us the earth to rule over, control, whatever, but not to destroy it, so we should be looking after it.

The bible also does say that all of these bad things are going to happen before the return of christ, so maybe it is inevitable and we can't do anything about it???? I really don't know what to think.