thread: Self-determination/free-will V's predestination/fate

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  1. #1
    Registered User

    Nov 2005
    Ontario, Canada
    1,624

    My view sounds pretty similar to yours Chloe - I believe, though I cannot fully comprehend, in God's 100% sovereignty and man's 100% responsibility. God has EVERYTHING completely in His control and works it all according to His plan. And yet, people are completely responsible for the choices they make, and we believe that God responds to our prayers.

  2. #2
    BellyBelly Life Subscriber

    Feb 2006
    South Eastern Suburbs, Vic
    6,054

    (just to preface, as usual, I'm coming from my Christian perspective)
    To be honest, it's not something I try to think about too much - because firstly, I suspect it's one of those things that only God understands for sure, and also because I've seen people who are supposed to be united become divided because of issues like predestination.

    Some people think (as far as I understand, in regards to salvation through Jesus) that God chooses who is saved. My thoughts are more that God knows who is saved, because he's outside of time, he knows who will choose him and who won't, and every other decision we make. Already he has knowledge of every single person who will know him, and who won't. I don't believe that God chooses some and not others, because the bible says (don't know where off the top of my head) that he isn't willing that any are lost.

    I believe that anyone can make their own choices, that God gave us free will, and that we can choose to follow him and make other choices. I base that on verses that talk about salvation being available to all. (I'm talking about salvation, because that's what most Christian 'predestination' debate seems to centre around.)

    Having said that, there are parts of the bible, like in the story of Moses where the bible says God hardens Pharoah's heart, and similar situations, that I find difficult to grasp, in light of aforementioned beliefs.

    Which brings me back to my first statement. :P I'll never understand it fully, and understanding predestination is not critical to my relationship with God, and I've seen people go round and round in circles about this kind of issue, and lose sight of the important thing - the good news of Jesus, and loving God and others.

    (Is that kind of what you were after?)

  3. #3
    paradise lost Guest

    Both.

    I don't belong to any Faith group.

    I believe the map is there and my route across it exists, but only to a certain extent. Like, if you think of a map of Aus and you on your feet - there's only so many places you can walk in a day. So i believe my potentials are mapped out already, but the path i take through them is mine to choose.

    Bx

  4. #4
    Registered User

    Mar 2007
    6,900

    This is a hard question and a hard thing to understand, I agree with Nelle, I think it's something we can't understand fully.

    I am Christian and I think I basically agree with Chloe's view (although talking about the Christian God)

  5. #5
    2013 BellyBelly RAK Recipient.

    May 2007
    Brisbane
    5,310

    This is interesting, good topic!

    I believe that we've all got predetermined lessons to be learnt, which are based on our past existence/s. I don't think there are specific events planned in our life (but thats the scientific side of me thinking about all the variables and my mind boggles at the thought of every variable or 'random event' being predetermed).

    Anyway, I think we're all got lessons that we need to learn, and that our self-determination and choices are the factors with influence how we are given/learn these lessons. I also think that theres no planned outcome. If we don't learn a 'lesson' from on event we have another go (either in this life or the next).

    Which, in the end, leads to the learning of all lifes lessons, and holding all knowledge (which is Buddhism is enlightenment) which leads to existence in Nirvana (the end of Samsara - moving from one life to the next). (Of course, with karma influences as well, but thats another topic altogether).


  6. #6

    Oct 2005
    A Nestle Free Zone... What about YOU?
    5,374

    Great topic Chloe!

    I believe that we I have lessons to learn in this lifetime. I believe that the Universe sets scene for those lessons to be learned. Weather I chose to step up to the plate is my free will.

    I think much like Leasha as my belief system follows Buddhist philosophy. I have karmic lessons and debt...

  7. #7
    Registered User

    Jul 2006
    In The Land Of Wonderful...
    1,751

    I believe along similar lines to Bec, Leasha and Deb...

    I don't belong to a 'group' as such either, but I do believe that we do have a fate... I also believe that whilst it may be 'set out' for us, there are routes we can choose to take, and routes we can choose to leave.
    Consequently, we end up 'where we should be' at this point in time.. If that makes sense?

    I believe that you can make of life what you like - and so I put a lot of belief into free will - I also believe along the Buddist lines of self determination and free will in terms of lifes lessons.

    I would like to think that we are faced with challenges because of lessons we are yet to learn.. and master - whether I learn it in this lifetime or another, who knows... hopefully I'll 'get it' in this one so I have greater challenges ahead of me later on...

    I'm a little contradictory in my beliefs - I take a little from this and a little from that and form in my own mind what I think is important to live by.

    I'm a big believer in making of life what you choose, learning lessons along the way - and then enjoying the benefits once the lesson have been learned.