Sin, what do you think?

[christy]

I just want to start a discussion on sin from different perspectives, different beliefs etc. I don't want this to turn into a debate as whose religion is best please. But this sparks from another discussion we are having in the Christianity forum and I wanted to hear other perspectives as well.

Sin, to me it is defined as something that is against what God has given us. So, for example, coveting or desiring more than what you are given (in an unhealthy fashion) is pretty wrong. If you desire something more than what you have, lets say you find someone very attractive, more emotionally attractive than your partner... coveting him/her you could lead yourself into another sin (adultery). Does that makes sense?

[alioops]

The laws of Australia are based on what is commonly known as the 10 commandments. But further on in the Bible, Jesus stated that we should obey the laws of the land, as long as they don't contradict the laws of God. So basically I believe that doing something illegal that is not supported by the bible is a sin.

[Eugenia]

From a Christian perspective:

I agree with what Ali said about doing something illegal but also believe that the Bible gives a long list of things that God considers to be sin and we can't just ignore them because it's not convenient or modern society considers it acceptable behaviour. I know many people think that if a particular behaviour is now accepted as normal by society then the "church", whether it be their particular church or Christianity in general, should then change their rules to suit modern perception but the Bible is very clear as to what is a sin or not and we can't change what it says to suit us.

I also think there are other things that are not as clear cut. For example the Catholic church considers contraception a sin but most protestant churches don't, and the Bible doesn't really say anything concrete about it, so then it's the individual's decision whether they go with their church's position or not.

To counter that I also believe that the Bible says God is a God of mercy and grace so not only will He forgive our sins He will also help us not to sin again.

[Ca Plane Pour Moi]

I think sin is something which lowers our very worth. Not that we can ever gain enough points to be considered perfect by some sort of innate virtue, but I do think sin is a degrading thing.

We can desire to have more than we do. To this end, we could work hard and concientiously, we would gain reward from that. OR we could steal, covet, over-work (and thus ignore other parts of our life for material reward we don't really get to enjoy) - that would be sin.

We speak to other people. If we speak respectfully and politely, we are listened to and our company is appreciated, even desired. Or we can be rude, intolerant and loutish, which would be sin and its own punishment as fewer people wanted to be with us and our friends were not people we generally like, but will just put up with us.

Yes, doing illegal things and going against the laws of God are sins. But I think there are things that aren't covered explicitly here that are sins too, they are about our conduct and appearence (appearence of character). On contraception, I feel that if we have more children than we can support - we cannot afford to feed or clothe them properly, we resent them because we have to have them - then no contracption would be a sin. If, on the other hand, we mourn the loss of children to the extent that we become jealous or unable to cope because we use contraception then using it would be sinning. How can we properly praise God for our children if we dislike being with them?

[paradise lost]

From a non-formal perspective...to me "sin" is a Christian term.

I believe more in Right and Wrong. I suppose my own individual conscience dictates which is which, though i believe it is Right to obey the law unless it directly hurts another person if i don't (for instance i would commit assault in self-defence or defence of a third party). It is Wrong to act in such a way that you hurt, inconvenience or upset another person unless it is unavoidable or for the greater good.

Morality is flexible though and most people will behave in different ways in the same situation depending on varying factors.

Bx

[Phteven]

From a Muslim perspective we believe that the greatest sin, the one that Alah chooses not to forgive is disbelief. I'm a bit shaky on Christian and Jewish theology but I'm pretty sure that the first commandments are also about the importance of worshiping G-d and not worshipping other Godsor idols. This doesn't mean than we believe that anyone who isn't Muslim will go to hell. On the contrary the Quran specifically makes the point that non-Muslims can attain parradise.

Those who believe and those who are Jews and Christians, and Sabians, whoever believes in God and the Last Day and do righteous good deeds shall have their reward with their Lord, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve

In Islam we also believe that if you have not had the opportunity to hear Allah's message then you won't be punished for your lack of faith.

Ali, the Islamic position is the same as the one you mentioned. If the laws of the land do not contradict Islam then we should obey them but if they did contradict Islam (ie we were fobidden from prayer or forced into murder) then we would have a moral obligation to break that law.

When it comes to forgiveness, as I said above, we believe that Allah may choose to forgive any sin except disbelief. A sheik once told me that the mercy that Allah placed on earth is equal to less than 1% of the mercy of Allah. So all the love of all the mothers ever is nothing compared to the love of Allah.This doesn't mean that we can just take mercy for granted and just do whatever we want it just means that if we ask for it, it's there.

[Phteven]

Ryn, I agree that by sinning we degrade ourselves. When we do something that is hurtful and disrespectful we're also hurting and disrespecting ourselves by the same token when we do something that is genourous or kind we're enobling ourselves and improving our self worth (this is the reason that my brother thinks that there is no such thing as a truly selfless act lol).

[Ca Plane Pour Moi]

Dach, the first commandment is Thou shalt have no other God but me, which I would think is the same in Islam. Jesus also said this is the first and the greatest commandment, also that we should treat others as we would treat ourselves. Of course, we can argue how should someone with low self-worth treat others but that’s just semantics. The only unforgivable sin in Christianity is “sins against the Holy Spirit” – to whit, denying God once you know Him (not too dissimilar to Islam, as you have just stated). You cannot deny someone you don’t know.

[Phteven]

for example, coveting or desiring more than what you are given (in an unhealthy fashion) is pretty wrong. If you desire something more than what you have, lets say you find someone very attractive, more emotionally attractive than your partner... coveting him/her you could lead yourself into another sin (adultery). Does that makes sense?

In Islam we believe that there are 2 types of envy.
The first is negative envy where we covet the material stuff that others have. This kind of envy can't really lead us anywhere positive. Even if it leads us to work harder to get these things it won't make us happy because once we have them w'll just envy other things so we can work ourselves to the bone and gain nothing but a world full of objects that don't give us joy.
The second form of envy is positive envy where we envy other people's spiritual wealth and knowledge and strive to emulate them. So if we see someone who is pious or kind and tranquil and we try to be like them then we can become better people through our jealousy.

[christy]

Yeah, I can see that Chloe. Healthy ... often we say "Pride" is a sin, but pride in our God isn't? Its like we don't have enough words to cover the emotions the right way.

[Inanna]

I follow a Buddhist path...

In Buddhism sin is not really focussed on - is it more a Christian thing? I remember growing up in a Methodist family sin was pretty much the focus.

In Buddhism I would suggest that what we aim for is "mindfulness" - being aware. Totally aware and behaving always from the angle of loving kindness. So perhaps they would be the "sins" of this philosophy?