Thoughts, responses, critiques... (free academic chatter please!)

[Just Me]

I do agree that many of our holidays originated from dates of pagan celebrations and many of the traditions also originated from there. However, I also believe that God created every day. So why not use these days to celebrate and remember Him? I don't think God is the great kill joy that He is so often represented as. We celebrate our own birthdays, why not celebrate his as well? Any reason to remember God and the things He has done for us is a good enough reason to celebrate no matter what the day was orginally used for.

I have heard other Christians refer to having a Christmas tree as idol worship. My husband sings this song every year as we put up our Christmas tree in response to that:

O Christmas tree
O Christmas tree
We worship you, idolically

Cracks me up every time!

I guess I come from the line of thinking that the ACTUAL date of Jesus' birthday or of his death and resurrection are not really all that important. What is important is that we remember them.

I love Christmas and love Easter. We don't do Santa or the Easter Bunny in our house (well in the real sense) - we still talk about them with our kids and still leave cookies out for Santa, but don't pretend they are real. We use them as make believe characters in our house but still enjoy the fun of them. My parents did this with us as kids.

I think it is a bit sad to throw the good the comes from remembering Christmas and Easter out the window just because the date originated from a pagan celebration. The important thing really is remembering and celebrating God and all the things He has done for us. Anytime is a good time for that!

[angelaartsstudent]

Could also be Hindu (Diwali) or Muslim (Ramadan)....all happen around the xmas/new year period.

Personally I don't celebrate xmas in any religious way. For hubby and I it is just a time to be happy and grateful for what we have in life and enjoy time together. Nothing more than that. I believe more closely in the Pagan origins as I am not Christian but we don't put any religious significance on it, no xmas tree, no santa, no commercialism. Just us.

[AnyDream]

Oh so sorry but I'm not buying the line that the Devil is tricking Christians into accidentally worshipping false gods by celebrating these holidays (which appears to be the main thrust of the article).

For one, any act - whether sinful or holy - is made so by the intent of the person who performs it. So if one person is celebrating the birth of Christ at Christmas - and they put their tree up along with their advent wreath - then that is what they are doing. Worshipping the Divine as they encounter it in their life.

By the same token, a pagan who celebrates the turning of the year at the same time, and does it by bringing in greenery and lighting candles and feasting, is also worshipping the Divine as they encounter it in their life. As defined by their intent.

The Divine is an awesomely huge mystery...who are we to think that any of us might have a monopoly on that truth?

By the way, the season of commercialism and false-seeking-of-happiness-though-material-goods is no more pagan than it is christian. It's a non-spiritual behaviour and should not be falsely ascribed to any spiritual tradition.

[AngelPunks]

As a card carrying pagan the imagery of both yule & ostara is very much been "borrowed" by the christians for their celebrations.

The yule log, the colour schemes etc are all pagan based. It is the celebration rebirth of the Sun, which is the promise of spring and life even on this the darkest day. It is also sometimes celebrated as the rebirth of the Great God (the sun).

Also known as: Yuletide, Alban Arthuan, Winter Solstice marks the longest night of the year. It is from this point that the days begin slowly to become longer and longer. The sun is at its most southeastern point over the Tropic of Capricorn in the northern hemisphere and has no apparent northward or southward motion. In the time of the ancient tribes this was a time of celebration, for it meant the turning point of winter and the eventual return of spring. Yule is the time when we honor the Goddess for giving birth to the sun once more. It is the time when the Oak King is victorious over the Holly King. The Holly King represents death and darkness that has ruled since Samhain, and the Oak King represents rebirth and life. The waning (diminishing) sun is overtaken by the waxing (increasing) sun, thus the days become longer after the victory of the Oak King.

The rebirth theme is very much ostara, as well as the symbolism of eggs, chicks, rabbits etc. It is a time for planting and celebrating the first signs of fertility and rebirth.

Vernal or Spring Equinox, the Rites of Spring, Lady Day, Alban Eiber and Bacchanalia.The Spring Equinox occurs between March 19th and 21st. Ostara marks the day when night and day are equal and balanced. The Sun God's strength increases. The Maiden celebrates her fertility. Ostara, her symbol the egg and her animal the rabbit, is the Norse Goddess of fertility, and it is Ostara that is honored this day. Life begins anew at this time. This is a time to plant the seeds of our flower, herb and vegetable gardens.

Also the Devil/Satan is a Christian "creation", (most) Pagans believe in a system of duality, of male/female, good/evil - balance.

[Maruschke]

Alexis, nice to have an academic discussion .

I think it is interesting that many christians are not aware of the pagan imagery in some of their celebrations. However, I think agree that their intent is much much more important, and obviously their intent in celebrating Christmas and Easter is not pagan at all. Make sense?

The dates of easter and christmas mean very very little to me. I see the christmas tree, the easter egg, the holly, all those things... as a commercial thing now even more than a pagan ritual.

[Eugenia]

I think most Chrirtians, even those who celebrate with abandon, are aware of the pagan roots of a lot of Christian celebrations and traditions. The article was right in that at the time of emperor Constantine there were a lot of forced "conversions" of people from all the many religions of the empire to Christianity. Most of those people didn't willingly give up their beliefs, they simply got incorporated into the new religion they were forced to follow.

It has been so long now since that happened though, that Christmas and Easter celebrations as we know them now can be said to be Christian. There are a lot of Christians though who will quietly celebrate both those without using the pagan symbols in their celebrations, for example we don't have a Christmas tree or give/eat chocolate eggs.

But I think what tends to bother most Christians nowadays is not the pagan roots of the celebration but the huge commecialisation that has happened around these holidays. For a lot of the western world Christmas is not a time to celebrate Jesus' birth but a time to be greedy, eat and drink till you're sick and get into huge debt. That is neither pagan nor Christian but simply wrong.

[Rouge]

I think its both.

Yes the origins in most of the holidays are Pagan, but they are now reworked and recognised by Christians and they symbolise and celebrate their faith. Even the celts have parts of their faith that was passed down from other areas such as Nordic Pagan faiths. Its not the first time in history its happened so I don't think there's need for crucifying (no pun intended) Christians due to some similarities. I think its important to appreciate the history of your faith, but not necessary to be compared in some elitist way.

Whilst I'm not Christian myself, I love Father Bob's take on all this he has some great (and funny) interpretations.

Christianity is a modern religion when you really think about it. Given Judaism and Islam were the faiths of god prior to the life of Jesus.

[Maruschke]

But I think what tends to bother most Christians nowadays is not the pagan roots of the celebration but the huge commecialisation that has happened around these holidays. For a lot of the western world Christmas is not a time to celebrate Jesus' birth but a time to be greedy, eat and drink till you're sick and get into huge debt. That is neither pagan nor Christian but simply wrong.

Couldn't agree more .