REALLY NEED ADVICE - sorry a bit long

[JordieC]

Okay - I've posted a few times about my DD's sleeping. She's nearly 6 months old. First let me say that it's not TERRIBLE. I'm not competely exhausted and she gets a good amount of hours each day/night. My prob is her lack of consistency and routine.

Now I'm in 2 minds about this so this is where I need the advice. This is what I am doing currently:
- Usually play/feed/play then down for sleep
- I put her down usually after being awake for approx 2 hours. As soon as it's 2 hours or she's showing tired signs, she goes down
- during the day she gets about 3 sleeps ranging from 45 mins to 1 1/2 hrs.
- she usually goes down between 6 & 8pm. She is waking between 2 and 6 times each night.

I thought it was okay to watch her cues and go with the flow but every day is sooo different so I find it hard to set a routine. When I put her down I have NO IDEA how long she will sleep for. I have lots of friends who's babies do have routines and I feel a bit inadequate for not putting her in one.

QUESTIONS: Should she be in a routine? If she's not will it affect her when's she's a toddler? How do I change her patterns?

The sleep school is ringing me on Tues so I will see what they suggest but I would love your opinions. Thankyou in advance!!!

[Spring Angel]

JordieC my DS sounds just like your DD. I try so hard to 'get him into' a routine but he is very unpredictable.

I do the same and follow his tired signs. If I try to put him to sleep before he is ready he will scream. His naps are either one sleep cycle (so 45 mins) or perhaps up to 2 sleep cycles during the day. Bedtime is between 6.30pm and 7.00pm (I try to stick to that) and he will wake for a feed twice between then and 7.00am and I also need to get up and resettle him a few times.

I guess what all my ramble is getting at is that I think your DD is within the range of normal just like my DS. Some kids just don't like/need as much sleep and trying to enforce a routine may just end up frustrating you more.

I'd love to know what the sleep school suggests on Tues.

Here's to a good night sleep for both of us.

Spring xx

[KatieRabbit]

My pattern/routine with 3mnth DD goes like this:
feeds every three hours (I often wake her) for about 20 mins
then 'play' time usually until an hour is up from her waking (say 40 mins)
then nap (usually 1.5 to 2 hrs)

I keep this up all the time until midnight when I last wake her.So whenever she wakes up herself after 12am is the next feed. THis is between 4and 5 am and I am trying to get it to 6am.
Since I have been doing this routine:
she goes to sleep much easier
she stays asleep at naptime
crying has eased- I now know why she cries
she settles to sleep herself (but not out of a cycle!!)
I can get sorted and some rest in knowing she is asleep and will stay so. I wished I had done it much earlier.
You don't HAVE to have a routine but I have found it of immense value.
Soon, hopefully once the 6am is her first waking, she will then drop the midnight feed herself. She never cries in hunger and I don't do control crying. If she cries, I work out what it is ( 9 times out of 10 it is her winding down to sleep cry) then work out what to do. If winding down I pat her till she stops and she falls asleep.Otherwise I pick her up for a cuddle which is usually enough.
In a nutshell, a routine works well for ME but is still flexible with outings, interruptions etc
Good luck

[Arimeh]

Jordie,

I think (from memory) my DS was basically on the same routine back then as he is now. Naps at 9.30 and 2.30 - then bed time at night was 7.30. I always persisted in trying to get him to go to sleep at those times, just because it seemed to be the times I was most successful at getting him to sleep. even now at nearly 14 months old, he went to sleep at 9.30 this morning till about 11.30 and then down again at 2.30ish. He slept till just after 4. Some days are better than others. Maybe just try to write down which days seem to flow better, and what times she goes down easiest? I found that even putting him down at 9.35 made a difference to how long he would sleep for (if we put him down earlier or later than 9.30, he wouldn't sleep as long).
Its a very thin line they travel sleepwise I think!!!!! Good luck at the sleep school.

[~Saram~]

You need to find what works for you. Don't feel pressure to do what everyone else is doing if it doesn't work for you. The nocry sleep solution by Elizabeth Pantly is a great read to help you establish what works for you whether it be a routine or just revising your settling techniques.

Ari is not a good sleeper - hasn't been since about 3 mth. We called the sleep school here but their techniques and I don't fit very well. We had a lot of success with chiropractic treatment and reorganising her eating/sleeping schedule. We realised that she was hungry just before she got tired but she was too tired to eat so she work early and then was too tired to eat. By moving meal times aroun d a bt it mde a big difference.

She still varies her routine - sometimes she has a nap at 9am for 2hrs othertimes she won't go down until midday and only had 1hr but she is happy so it's working for us. All the best

[jmmum]

JordieC,
Not a great fan of the set rountine. My DD one on 8/3. Has a long morning sleep usually about 10.30 to 12.30. Tend to put her in cot anytime from 10.30. She will get grouchy in afternoon but rarely will she sleep usaully give her a bit of cot time she often won't sleep but just enjoys being in her room and chats away to herself. At night she is off to bed anytime between 630 and 800. I just wait til she peeters out. She wakes up at 7am and you could set the clock by her morning wake-up. She has been like this from about 10 weeks. I never try to make DD sleep if she doesn't settle to sleep we have some cuddle time (Yah!!!) I wonder if you are trying to get your baby to sleep to often. Even at daycare (DD started at 6mth) she only sleeps once in am and then about 20 mins in arvo. Don't know if any of this helps. Good luck at the sleep clinic I have heard they are very good.
Deb

[JordieC]

Thanks for the suggestions guys. A couple of things:

When DD was around 3 months she was sleeping about 10-12 hrs in a row so she does have the ability to do it!!

I thought maybe she was having too many sleeps during day and could stay awake longer but to be honest, if she's awake for much longer than 2 hrs (sometimes 2 1/2) then she gets cranky. If I miss putting her down, even by 15 mins then she becomes overtired. She rarely cries or gets cranky if I get her down in time IYKWIM.

Can babies who don't have a routine when babies have one when they are toddlers successfully?

[~Kim~]

Yes Jordi, they can.

THe first 7 months of Darcy's life were really quite horrendous for me (please don't be horrified). I had sever PND and a baby that never ever slept - well not like I thought she should sleep. Somewhere in the middle of that 7th month I had an epiphany.
So what if she didn't sleep like other babies? So what if she had no set routine? She was happy doing her own thing (for a mum with OCD that's VERY hard to deal with). I stopped monitoring her sleeps for time. I put her down when she was tired. If she woke and still appeared tired I helped her back to sleep. I fed when she wanted to. I listened to her and I.
Once I realised that if I was happy and comfortable with how things were going, then she would be too. All of a sudden that weight of mother guilt and competition (not really the right word but can't think of one better) was gone. It got easy and bright.

Now she will be 2 in May every day she has her own routine which she has gotten into. Every day she wants food and plays and wants to go to sleep around the same time. She knows what's next. She's happy and I'm happier.

HTH.

It is hard and you are doing all the right things.

[megsgr]

I am having sleep issues too. I have just started reading a really good book it is called Sleeping Like a Baby by Pinky Mckay. It has some really great advice. I really feel at peace with what I am doing from reading it. It is very child orientated. I really recommend it for you as it will show that you are doing the best for what works for your child and not to worry about what works for other babies as every baby is different. Good luck.

[Spring Angel]

Shocking night here last night JordieC. Basically DS was unsettled from 3.30am and only had naps until 7.00am ARGH. I think ~Kim~ has some really good advice about just following bubs lead.

Mesgr: Where did you get the book from? Can I ask how much it cost because I have heard good things about it and what to get it also.

ETA: Nevermind, I just found it for sale in the online store. Thanks anyway.

Spring

[JordieC]

Grrrr terrible night again!! She was sooo good yesterday - having 3 sleeps and going down without a problem. The night was crap - She woke at 10.30, 12, 3, 4.45 and 6 - each time really upset and feed the only way to comfort her. DH got up at 6.30 and took her for walk - thank god!!!!! I know there are lots of books out there so I will try but... I don't know - it's hard when they aren't seeing your child. See how things go I guess

[Kitt3n]

jordie, have you considered going to your local Karitane - like support network?

They really helped my aunt, who had similar probs with her son - it depends which state you are in as to who you can contact.

[megsgr]

Spring I just borrowed that book from the local library.

[Campari]

Hi JordieC,
I have a 6 month old too, and have struggled with the routine question as well. We have little mini-routines here which I know DD loves - like we always bath her, dry and dress her in the loungeroom, have cuddles, have a feed, and then bed at 7pm on the dot.

I have tried to do feed/play/feed sleep, and I've tried a couple of strict routines set out in books (not control crying though - would never do that just to form a routine!) I've just found that its not possible, because, like you said, babies don't always sleep for the same amount of time! Some days Milla wakes after 25 minutes, some times she will sleep for over 2 hours!

What I have done is try to stick to a 7am out-of-bed-routine... this is working well and our mornings are pretty reliable, I know she is going to be ready for a nap at 9am, and give or take 10 minutes, she will give me the tired signs and I put her straight to bed. This has meant though that I have had to wake her at 7am some mornings (rare... usually she wakes at 6:30 or so) which is a killer on weekends when all I want to do is sleep in! If Milla wakes up at 6:30, she comes in to our bed for cuddles, and I try to keep her calm til 7am, and I give her her first feed then.

So, our mornings are sort of in a routine, but after that, my afternoons are usually all over the place. Im happy enough with that, and she's happy most of the time.

Try reading Pinky McKay, and also the No-Cry Sleep Solution. I've also read Tizzie Hall and Gina Ford, but not found they fit well with us...

Don't stress though, you sound like you're doing just fine, and your DD is happy, and that's what matters.