Climbing on/jumping off couch and kid furniture... do you let you let your kids?

[meow]

Oh sheesh.

[~Hestia~]

I can't speak for anyone else, but I guess we say jumping on furniture is disrespectful because the furniture is important to us. We take care of things that are important to other people. Whether that is a cheap couch or a fragile ornament, if someone says they don't want it played with in a way that will damage it, then we have to respect that. And by 'we' I mean our family. As they get older there has been and will be more opportunities to teach respect, but furniture is a start

[Phteven]

My sofas cost a lot of money (to us - I know it's relative). They are paid for by my DH's work and by our staff working ungodly hours being polite to people who in many instances are total idiots. Someone worked designing them, other people worked to make them, they are leather - cows died so we could sit on them, the metal in them was mined from the Earth that we live on, their delivery resulted in greenhouse gas emissions. I could go on but in short, they are the product of people's work and the Earth's resources. They are not disposable and I intend to sit on them until I am old and grey. To treat them as a trampoline/soft play area and thus shorten their life is IMO disrespectful of everything that went into them.
I want my children to tread lightly on the Earth. In our home that includes not treating things roughly that were not designed to be treated roughly.

Even if our sofas had been free the same things would apply.

[Phteven]

But by the same token, I find being relentlessly limiting and telling them off pretty disrespectful, or at least restrictive and idea-quashing, for my kids.

I'm not sure how instilling respect or telling children what is and isn't socially acceptable is relentlessly limiting.
IMO failure to do those things is disrespectful. I respect my children's intelligence and understanding enough to believe that they can grasp these concepts. I think that by giving them the tools to negotiate social situations and understand societal norms I am in fact doing the opposite of limiting them, that what is truly limiting is being unable to fit in socially.

[Arimeh]

Wow in the nearly 6 years I've been a member I think this is the first time I have agreed with Zazou on a topic!

That's a miracle I reckon!!!! PMSL

[Santosha]

Wow. Feeling kind of jumped on myself for challenging an assumption, even though I tried to express it as such... curiosity. Questioning. Not criticism.

But I also have über-sensitive preggo brain and DD giving me a filthy look is enough to make me cry, so I'm not sure I'm able to read the tone accurately at all.

Will come back later.

[Teeki]

Lol Arimeh!

I'm with Arimeh, Hestia and Zazou on this one. We have one "good" couch and one not so good, but either one I don't want DD jumping on. It's because the purpose of the furniture is to be comfortable to sit on, I want it to last and don't want it dirtied.

By jumping/standing/climbing on our furniture, she'll ruin the cushions, put pressure where it shouldn't be, generally shorten it's lifespan and make it less useful for its pepper purpose. So I feel like that needs to be respected, just because you can climb on something doesn't mean you should - if you want to do that we have plenty of stuff just for that purpose, you don't need the furniture for it.

And because DH and I have said to DD we don't want her to do that, not doing it respects us as well as the furniture. She certainly has no issues telling me when I'm not doing something to her standards! (Apparently I have no clue how to put a nappy on her doll lol.)

[Jellyfish]

I kind of see a difference between accidentally breaking something in the process of expected childhood exploration and intentionally breaking something to break it or just because you don't care enough not to take steps you know you need to in order not to. The second is obviously disrespectful, the first only is if there was a high risk of that happening and they were aware of the consequences.

So I wouldn't say no on principle of these things, it is a case by case basis. If a child could jump on our couch a billion times without breaking or ruining it then I see no reason to limit that. If breaking or ruining it is a likely outcome then boundaries become important. Most things are not built to last through rough housing though.

DD2 likes to sit on our art and play tables, we are okay with it because we know they are sturdy enough to hold her weight, she knows she can't stand on them though. She also sits in our exploration cabinet but she knows she can't swing on its frame or tap things roughly on the mirror. So the boundaries are where it becomes harmful to them or the property. Mine don't seem to struggle with those "contradictions" so we don't need a blanket "no monkeying around on furniture" to respect and preserve it.

[wysiwyg]

Do I stop my two year old everytime he is doing something other than sitting on the sofa - no. Do I think he is being disrespectful - no he is two he doesn't get the concept of respect plus it is a sofa me plonking my behind on it is more damaging then anything he can do to it. Do I let him use like a trampoline - no because is dangerous - more so than play equipment because the floor is hard the sofa is narrow. Am I as lenient with DD no because she is old enough to understand more. Do they jump on stuff at other peoples houses - no. I don't believe you have to have the same rules at home as elsewhere - we all behave differently at home to elsewhere. Have they jumped on the beds yes on occasion, as I remember doing when I was a child and remember doing headstands forward rolls making boats etc. on and with the sofa. The sofa lasted fine for 30 years it wasn't the most beautiful looking thing but it was full of memories.

[peanutter]

As far as my 3yo is concerned, the entire world is his jumping castle / parkour training space.

It's a constant battle in terms of what is ok for him to jump on and off, and what isn't ok, and trying to teach him how to know which is which.

I know that back in our day Kris Kross could make you jump, but these days, the only impetus required is being awake.

[Muppity]

Tom Cruise aside I don't know any adults who think its OK for them to jump on couches so it's the same for kids in my house. That said, DD thinks that the lounge room is an adventure playground to be climbed, jumped and crawled around/through/over so at the moment I'm loosing the battle.

[TickToc]

I never allowed DD to jump on the couch or bed, sit on the bench or table & I taught her to not touch items on display - I may be old fashioned but those items are not toys, they have been worked for & regardless of financial value they mean something to my family. I moved sentimental breakables away when she was in the "touch & explore" stage but less important items were left as is & she learnt to not touch. This gave me reassurance whenever I visited someone that she would behalf appropriately & I wouldn't have to constantly chase her around to make sure she wasn't touching anything.

I actually get offended when friends & family visit & their kids feel it's acceptable to jump on the couch and touch momentos. If they allow their children to act like this in their home it's their choice but I wish the behaviour was monitored when visiting.

Yes, I'm old school - toys are toys, furniture are not toys. Although I find using chairs, pillows, sheets & pegs are a great way to build forts The difference is the chairs are not being climbed over, they're only used to hold the sheets up

[Phteven]

When my boys were 4 and 5 we lived in a 1 bedroom flat with no TV for about 6 months. It rained/snowed regularly. Funnily enough the bad weather and tiny house made me more strict with the no outside behaviour indoors rules.
I took them out every single day regardless of the weather. We jumped on a neighbour's trampoline and went to the park. We also hiked a lot. I think my 4 year old was possibly one of the only 4 year olds I have ever met who could knock over a 5km hike in the morning and be ready for another one after lunch lol.

[Arcadia]

Naturally there is huge variation in the amount of monitoring or policing we are willing to do about certain behaviours. I think if you're willing to police jumping on the couch and you place value on that item of furniture then you will be strict. I have chosen to fight different battles with my kids due to different priorities.

My kids still understand how to respect my belongings and their own when we place high value on them. They also understand house rules at other people's homes. I don't think we can make blanket statements about whether or not jumping on the couch indicates a lack of respect. Your kids respect what you respect and teach them too. I hate our couches. I kept them knowing the kids would trash them because I can't be bothered policing couch activities. Each to their own.

But the OP was asking if they should relax their rules, so it really depends on whether the rules are helping you or hindering you. Can you let it go or is it a priority for you? We are all different and it's ok to just pick your battles based on your own family experience.

[Artechim]

My kids haven't really been couch jumpers but when they do go though a stage of jumping off, I usually pull all the cushions off and build a tower for them to climb. DD2 is quite fond of being a cat on the back of the couch lately. I don't mind them climbing on it. Our couch has wood support and foam cushions so there isn't really that much that can go wrong in regards to breaking it. I have never had a problem with them jumping on furniture when we visit anyone. Just as they don't raid the cupboard at someone else's house. They know the difference.

I personally am a big fan of picking battles. If your couch isn't overly important to you then let him go for it. Make it a bit safer by designating a particular bit to jump from and clear away coffee tables etc, maybe stick a beanbag there for landing.

[Santosha]

Ok, so I think I know where I stand on this one now and I do thank you all for the input as it has helped me turn it over in my head. For the most part, I know I should therefore probably just leave it. But there's a bit of me that's a bit miffed at being misconstrued that wants to respond... so if you can be bothered indulging Santosha's pedantry, proceed...

Nah mate, don't feel jumped on - we just see it differently to you, doesn't mean anyone is particularly right - its just how we feel about the situation. I don't think anyone is jumping on anyone else's way of parenting here, just explaining the reasons why ours is different to yours.

But that's exactly why I felt jumped on. Because I never said I see it a particular way. I've always applied much the same rules as the majority have stated here. It's just that I've been calling myself on my 'just coz' parenting. I want to make rules consciously. I want to understand the reasoning behind the rles and boundaries I put in place so they're meaningful and value-based to my children. And I'm not just the arbitrary arbiter! Yet I felt I was being argued with, and that 'we just feel different to you'.

My mum was pretty old school - so that makes me pretty old school with how I want to raise my kids. I read a lot on here about respectful parenting and all that kind of stuff, and I sometimes feel like the odd one out, because most of the time it just doesn't stick in my brain, seems a bit all politically correct for me and the way that I was raised, so its really bizarre (to me!) that people let their kids do stuff that I don't let my kids do because I was never raised that way - ITMS?

I'm not sure how instilling respect or telling children what is and isn't socially acceptable is relentlessly limiting.
IMO failure to do those things is disrespectful. I respect my children's intelligence and understanding enough to believe that they can grasp these concepts. I think that by giving them the tools to negotiate social situations and understand societal norms I am in fact doing the opposite of limiting them, that what is truly limiting is being unable to fit in socially.

That's exactly it though. Apart from safety (which is a consideration in many things that I do let them do), I just had these rules in place because of the way I was raised. And many others I apply because of societal norms. But to my mind, that's not enough. We are thinking parents here - I've seen enough of your other posts to know you two are. And that's what I love about the general culture of this forum - that parenting is a conscious process, not a set of assumptions and rules. That we can challenge and change our views given new information and valid argument and question why it is that we make the parenting choices that we do, especially when they might conflict with our values... which is the process that triggered my initial question. I don't know about you, but for all they've gotten right, my parents and society more broadly have done plenty that I do not want to blindly follow.
In terms of your comment Zazou, yes, if ultimately my children are unable to differentiate between the rules in my home and the rules in others... if they extend boisterousness into destructiveness and they do not respect other's wishes in terms of their home and property... then yes, setting this precedent is doing them a disservice in terms of teaching them how to fit in in a social world. But, like I said earlier, so far my experience with them and with other children is that children are generally able to understand that different rules apply in different situations. That ultimately, in time, they will know the subtle difference between playful and 'too much' just as I allow them to throw foam balls at eachother but still need to intervene when the vinyl basketball is brought into the game!

Well I can't speak for anyone else, but for me its disrespectful because its not what its purpose is.

Yes, I'm old school - toys are toys, furniture are not toys.

But a bed-sheet can be used for a cubby and a laundry bucket can be used for a bath... I don't really understand how using something for an activity other than it's specified purpose is 'disrespectful'. We encourage this flexibility and creativity in so many other circumstances. Tic toc, you do go on to say that you use bed sheets etc for other things. Do you think your DD understands why this rule is ok for, say, sheets but not for furniture?

Plus, its DH's and my property that they are effectively destroying when they jump on it - and I don't want them to go somewhere else and jump on someone else's couch. Which is what they would do if we let them jump on ours.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I guess we say jumping on furniture is disrespectful because the furniture is important to us. We take care of things that are important to other people. Whether that is a cheap couch or a fragile ornament, if someone says they don't want it played with in a way that will damage it, then we have to respect that. And by 'we' I mean our family. As they get older there has been and will be more opportunities to teach respect, but furniture is a start

My sofas cost a lot of money (to us - I know it's relative). They are paid for by my DH's work and by our staff working ungodly hours being polite to people who in many instances are total idiots. Someone worked designing them, other people worked to make them, they are leather - cows died so we could sit on them, the metal in them was mined from the Earth that we live on, their delivery resulted in greenhouse gas emissions. I could go on but in short, they are the product of people's work and the Earth's resources. They are not disposable and I intend to sit on them until I am old and grey. To treat them as a trampoline/soft play area and thus shorten their life is IMO disrespectful of everything that went into them.
I want my children to tread lightly on the Earth. In our home that includes not treating things roughly that were not designed to be treated roughly.

Now this I do get. I get that if it is doing significant damage to something you value, that is disrespectful to the property and the person who values it. And I agree with the principle about 'treading lightly' but am not sure it applies if they are not consciously doing damage as such. I guess I said that this wasn't a key concern for me as the kind of stuff my two little people are up to is, at this stage, not doing observable damage. No more than the wear and tear they do to my carpet, their clothes, their toys, from being playful little people. if it involved taking to my couches with textas or really hoeing into the fabric with shoes on, then woah Nelly that'd be a whole different level of unacceptable to me. But they're being wriggly puppies not kickboxers. Food for thought when they're only getting bigger and there's soon to be three though... sure they'll be able to inflict far more damage.

I kind of see a difference between accidentally breaking something in the process of expected childhood exploration and intentionally breaking something to break it or just because you don't care enough not to take steps you know you need to in order not to. The second is obviously disrespectful, the first only is if there was a high risk of that happening and they were aware of the consequences.
So I wouldn't say no on principle of these things, it is a case by case basis. If a child could jump on our couch a billion times without breaking or ruining it then I see no reason to limit that. If breaking or ruining it is a likely outcome then boundaries become important. Most things are not built to last through rough housing though.
DD2 likes to sit on our art and play tables, we are okay with it because we know they are sturdy enough to hold her weight, she knows she can't stand on them though. She also sits in our exploration cabinet but she knows she can't swing on its frame or tap things roughly on the mirror. So the boundaries are where it becomes harmful to them or the property. Mine don't seem to struggle with those "contradictions" so we don't need a blanket "no monkeying around on furniture" to respect and preserve it.

Do I stop my two year old everytime he is doing something other than sitting on the sofa - no. Do I think he is being disrespectful - no he is two he doesn't get the concept of respect plus it is a sofa me plonking my behind on it is more damaging then anything he can do to it. Do I let him use like a trampoline - no because is dangerous - more so than play equipment because the floor is hard the sofa is narrow. Am I as lenient with DD no because she is old enough to understand more. Do they jump on stuff at other peoples houses - no. I don't believe you have to have the same rules at home as elsewhere - we all behave differently at home to elsewhere. Have they jumped on the beds yes on occasion, as I remember doing when I was a child and remember doing headstands forward rolls making boats etc. on and with the sofa. The sofa lasted fine for 30 years it wasn't the most beautiful looking thing but it was full of memories.

Our couches are old, as in the same ones we had when I was a kid, and they can't get more wrecked because we trashed them as kids. I let the kids take all the cushions off them and jump onto them, the only rule is no shoes.
We allow some jumping on the bed, but not towards the wall/window and not unsupervised.
I have a thing about crafting at the table without a plastic mat because the table is the only thing DH and I have bought together and it is a really nice table.
So, yeah a lot has to do with the value you place in the furniture, as well as your general ideas about appropriate indoor play. If we had a big backyard and a trampoline etc I might change my ideas, but I live in a tiny house, with minimal yard and if I said no balls inside and no jumping on furniture my kids would rarely get a chance to do it.
I think as they get older I will limit it, but at 2 and 4 they are just looking for something to do, and I don't like being a policeman allllllll day. Its hard enough keeping them out of the fridge and off the kitchen benches looking in cupboards.
I think negativity, like telling a child off constantly wears down both you and the child and if it were me, I might relax the rules, or at least find a better outlet for them so you can redirect them to the appropriate jumping space/lounge etc.

This is more of the flexibility in rule making that I'm wondering about.

Tom Cruise aside I don't know any adults who think its OK for them to jump on couches so it's the same for kids in my house.

Yes, but I also don't know any adults who pretend their toast is a bus and drive it to their mouth in the morning! Who want extended pouring, splashing squirting playtime to be incorporated with their bathing and balance along fence-tops when going for a walk. Kids do stuff differently... and then they grow out of it. I'd be very surprised if I'm trying to tell my 16 year old not to jump on the couch, regardless of which way I go with this particular decision.


Phew. Sorry to go all ranty-pants. It's one of those days and this thread bore the brunt. I've tried to be very careful with tone... I honestly mean no judgement or criticism of anyone, just felt the need to defend the position that I didn't even know that I had!

ETA: thanks to Artechim, Heaven and Nutter. You all seemed to get my intent... and yes, will be thinking carefully as to whether this is a battle I want to "pick". Given what lies ahead in the next 12 months or so, I think keeping Mummy's frustration to a minimum, and little Mr Bounce's thrill-seeking needs met whilst I am attempting to supervise + breastfeed + keep my eyes open + be a semi kind person.... it might be one I'm willing to (within reason), let go.

[LuluHB]

I don't let my kids jump on anything in the house. Couches, dining chairs, arm chairs are for sitting on or slabbing out on (without shoes). Dining chairs and kitchen stools are for sitting on. Beds are for sleeping in.

One of the things you said at one point Santosha was that they were always your rules too, but you wondered why "just because". For me, and only speaking for me, I take the view that as older children and then adults you are expected to behave in a particular way. You go to a restaurant or café and you sit quietly on a chair. You are in your accountant's reception area and you sit quietly on the couch. I go with the concept that I am better teaching my kids right from the start what is, in my opinion, the appropriate way to behave in public - otherwise I believe there is room for confusion when the rules all change on them. Obviously I am age appropropriate - DDs1 and 2 have a whole lot less leeway than DD3 does because at her age its such a wonderful game and gets a really great response from Mummy! At this point in time, teaching her not to run and jump on the couch is about preserving her skull

I will also concede that as well as being an old school, strict parent, I am also pretty severely introverted. My worst fear would be to draw attention in public, and so I will be the one sitting quietly, not speaking loudly etc. My kids behave as a general rule extremely well in public because it is something that is very important to me. That's not to say we never have fun, go crazy etc. We just do it in what I consider to be more appropriate settings.

My final thing is a comment on some of the ladies' posts that refer to behaving differently at home than elsewhere. I tend to take the opposite view. This is their home. This is where the people they love the most in the world live. This is the place that deserves the most, for want of a better word, respect.

[nickle730]

Yes, but I also don't know any adults who pretend their toast is a bus and drive it to their mouth in the morning! Who want extended pouring, splashing squirting playtime to be incorporated with their bathing and balance along fence-tops when going for a walk.

Seriously, I do all of these things... even the toast. Although it's usually a train or a plane. Really.