I'm so sick of doing this every day NEED HELP!.. video attached

[lestyrox]

Most of you would know from my other posts here http://https://www.bellybelly.com.au/forums/baby-toddler-general-discussion/93579-help-4-5month-old-wrapping-rolling-dummy-dramas.html
that i'm having major trouble trying to get DS2 to sleep... as i write this i'm in tears because i'm just so frustrated, i've been trying to get him to sleep for the last hour AGAIN!
Its the same every day, every nap time it takes over an hour to get him to sleep and its wearing me down more and more every day and getting me really down.
I've added a link here http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fu...deoid=54039906of a video i took today of me trying to get him to sleep..i figured its easier to just watch it than try and explain what he's doing. yes he looks ver cute but don't be fooled, he's the devil in disguise just kidding but seriously He's been doing this since he was born..all the tired signs are there..cranky,jerky etc so i'll feed him, wrap him and put the dummy in and then as soon as i put him in his cot (or bassinette when he was newborn) he'll jerk and toss around like he's wide awak. So after trying and trying and countless trips back into his room to re-wrap and put the dummy back in i finally give in and get him up but then he's just grizzly and fussy because he's tired so we start the whole thing again! I know babies have a fussy time each day but this is happening pretty much every nap time and its driving me nuts! He does eventually go to sleep when he's completely miserable and screeming because he's overtired
I'm in tears nearly every day these days becuase i'm just so frustrated and tired and sick of doing the same thing day in day out. On top of this i'm having major problems with his older brothers (2yrs) temper/behaviour and he's fighting his sleeps too so i'm just not getting a break. (yes thats him you can hear screeching in the background of the video)I'm sick of being screamed at every day..how much screaming and stress can one person take?
I'm going to talk to the MCHN when i see her on Monday but she was really rude to me when i made the appointment on the phone and i don't hold out much hope that she'll be able to help. I want to talk to her about PND as well because i feel as though its creeping in on me. I love being a mum and we do have nice times but its the stress thats doing my head in. Dh trys to help but since i'm breastfeeding he can't do much there..he helps a lot with DS1 when he gets home from work which is so great but i find that when we do finally have 'us' time when the boys are asleep i'm so stressed from the day that i cant relax or shut off
I know i wont get a miracle cure/advice but i'd like to hear any suggestions...what am i doing wrong?
I dim his room, make sure its nice and quite, wrap him, feed him and he shows all the signs that he's ready but he just wont settle! I've been told its a stage but he's been doing this since he was born WHEN DOES IT GET BETTER!?

[~Trish~]

Aww, you poor thing . Unfortunately I can't see your video, MySpace says it's private.

Have you tried rocking/jiggling your bub in your arms so that he is almost asleep and then putting him down? I used to do this with DS2, I'd wrap him and get him almost asleep in my arms and then put him down. Over time I put him down a little less sleepy at a time and eventually I could put him down with no fuss.

It will pass, I can't tell you when, it's different for every bub. It took DS1 6 months to go down for naps with no help and it took DS2 until 7 months.

[littlelara]

Hi Lestyrox,
I'm sorry you're going through all this; have you thought of trying sleep school?
Maybe you could try a sleeping bag instead of wrapping (I know you're worried that he'll never keep a dummy in without being wrapped, but if it's not helping him get to sleep I'd say it's not worth the bother (and you'd be surprised what babies get used to eventually)
Good luck, it sounds like you're doing it hard x

[Oorki Galoorki]

i cant see the movie it just tells me that its a private movie..

would he go to sleep eventually if he was left (i dont mean left to cry) but left to decide when to sleep? like will he just go to sleep in a rocker or a pram or in a sling?

my dd has always been really hard to get to sleep.. for her day sleeps i lay down on our bed and feed her to sleep then sneak out... while this is happening i have my DS playing in his room quietly (i usually set him up with a quiet NON messy game first)
and for her night sleep i was also feeding her to sleep and then putting her in her cot (for a long long time we co slept) but now she starts in her bed
my dd is 20 months now and is still fed to sleep when im home during the day(4 days a week)
i know it might be hard but it will get better(espesially when you deside to stop fighting eachother over the sleep)
can you wrap him first before the feed? or feed wrapfeed dummy bed?
can you/will you let him sleep in your bed?
HTH

[Willow]

I think Trish's suggestion is good, maybe try to get him to a really sleepy state first rather than just putting him down wide awake and expecting him to nod off. Some babies don't master this for a long time.

Secondly, I'd say loose the dummy. It sounds like it's more of a hindrance than a help. If it's not helping to soothe him off to sleep then what's the point of it? I ditched the dummy pretty early on with DS for that reason. It made no difference to him settling and I'm so glad I did it now cause I don't have to worry about him weaning off it like I did with DD.

Also, it might be worth looking into a sleep school that doesn't do CC - yes, they do exist. They would be able to see first hand the issues you're having and give you some suggestions and settling techniques. Was a godsend for us.

Hang in there I know how much these sleep issues can get you down.

[lestyrox]

oops sorry the video should work now... i had it on private so no one on myspace could see it but of course that ment no one on here could see it either i'll change it to private again in the next day or so because i don't want it circulating around the net iykwim

I feel a bit funny posting a video of my son but i really need people to see it for themselves and perhaps can see what i'm doing wrong? Normally i wouldn't have a camera in his face of course so that threw him off a bit but he's pretty much like that normally.
As you can see he's trying to roll onto his tummy and getting stuck...i don't know what to do about that..it'd be ok if he wanted to sleep on his tummy but as soon as he's on his tummy he thinks its play time. Plus he keep knocking the dummy out. I've tried not putting it back in but he gets pretty upset and wont sleep without it.
I usually just put the dummy in and walk out of the room because i find that if i stay there he just looks at me and doesn't sleep

would he go to sleep eventually if he was left (i dont mean left to cry) but left to decide when to sleep? like will he just go to sleep in a rocker or a pram or in a sling?

thanks doudou..i do try this sometimes but he just slowly works himself up until he's screaming

Have you tried rocking/jiggling your bub in your arms so that he is almost asleep and then putting him down?

tried that Trish..it used to be the ONLY way he would sleep for the first 8weeks of his life but now its like he's suddenly become aware of his surrounding and will just squirm in my arms..plus his brother pulling me every which way doesn't help

I guess its not just this getting me down, its everything really..his brothers screaming, lack of sleep, stress etc etc but if i can just get DS2 to settle better i feel like i can stay on top of things..

[LimeSlice]

I would suggest unwrapping him.. He is getting more distressed by not being able to move his arms freely I think.
Why does he have to keep a dummy in? Excuse my ignorance, Charlotte never had one, so I dont understand these things! lol
Also are the curtains closed the room seemed quite bright.
During the day sleeps at that age Charlotte used to sleep if I fed her on my bed. I didnt have other kids to worry about though, but perhaps you could try that? Does he feed to sleep at all? I found that so effective and Charlotte doesnt have to fall asleep feeding anymore, so it doesnt last forever!

Hope you find something that works for you hun! It can be so hard when they wont nap properly, it ends up affecting them all day, so hang in there, you are doing a n ace job

[lestyrox]

maybe try to get him to a really sleepy state first rather than just putting him down wide awake and expecting him to nod off. Some babies don't master this for a long time.

- thats the thing, i wrap him, then feed then put the dummy in and he's nice and sleepy- eyes closed and all and then as soon as i put him in his cot he start being unsettled..
I

would suggest unwrapping him.. He is getting more distressed by not being able to move his arms freely I think.
Why does he have to keep a dummy in? Excuse my ignorance, Charlotte never had one, so I dont understand these things! lol
Also are the curtains closed the room seemed quite bright.

Thanks limeslice- i've tried not wrapping him but then he pulls the dummy out..i've tried not using the dummy but then he doesn't settle...its a vicious circle lol
It seems to me also that he doesn't want to be wrapped anymore because as you can see from the video he fights to get his arms up but then i've tried just putting him unwrapped and he thinks its play time and will play (which is fine with me) but that lasts all of 5minutes and he's back to crying.... maybe i just need to go cold turky with the wrap?? I'm reluctant to stop wrapping AND get rid of the dummy because he associates them both with sleep iykwim

[Ozziehoffy]

Firstly, to you. It's very frustrating to go through things like this that's for sure. I'm going to ask.... how comfortable are you with letting him sleep on his tummy? It almost seems as though he wants to do that, maybe he's more comfy? I would say that he looks as though he'd be fine with it as he lifts his head well. He might want to play himself to sleep? Oskar is older but does have times where he'll play/talk to himself for a bit then nod off. It looks too as though he really wants his arms and legs free....have you tried not wrapping? (I haven't read your other thread sorry)... if you have then I'd definitely try a sleeping bag (eg grobag without arms). I BF Oskar pretty much to sleep for a long time, in fact until he was probably around 17ish months?? I didn't know how else to do it with him until I HAD to. Let us know how you go. Hope something works for you.

Re: the curtains, we got the closest to full blockout as you can get without the expense of full blockout so that the room was quite dark during the day and I think that it helped a lot.

[lestyrox]

forgot to add that yes the curtains are closed..he has his blind down plus light blocking curtains drawn and its still fairly light! the sun sets on the side of the house that his room is on so it sops a lot of light.. we're moving soon so hopefull his new room will be darker.
I feel like the wrapping/dummy coming out/rolling issue is just the current problem but the main problem is that seems to fight every sleep..when he was younger and couldn't roll he'd stay wrapped and keep the dummy in but still fuss and carry on for ages every nap time...he used to do it from 4am onwards which was horrible thankfully he's not too bad during the night now

[LimeSlice]

It is so hard when they fight the sleepiness!! lol
Charlotte hated being wrapped from day dot. She also slept better on her tummy. To begin with though, although she was younger than your bub, I wrapped her bottom half only. Perhaps if you start by only wrapping him from the chest down, so his arms are free. Also have you got 2 dummies? One for his mouth and one for his hand? It may keep him from pulling the other one out...?
also have you got a teddy or a tag blanket or something else you start giving him only when it is sleep time, so that he associates that item with sleep, allowing you to eventually stop wrapping or removing he dummy without distressing him. I found that helped Charlotte a lot too.

[lestyrox]

Thanks so much for the replies ladies..thank God for Belly Belly you guys help me through so much
Ozziehoffy- i;m happy for him to sleep on his tummy, he's fairly strong so i think he'd be able to roll back onto his back if he needed too. I think you might be right about him wanting to play himself to sleep..maybe i should just put him in a sleeping bag, offer him the dummy and let him wind down himself??? His brother hated being wrapped so he was in a grow bag from the start.. i think i might take your advice and give that a go.. after all he can't be more unsettled lol

I feel bad now..maybe he's just trying to tell me he doesn't want to be wrapped?

[christy]

I can say quite honestly that 90% of babies go through an incredibly unsettled sleeping phase when they start rolling. Its like the developmental milestone freaks them out & they are all out of sorts. Its exhausting.

With DD1, it was horrific but with DD2 I sort of expected it. I would keep her awake until she was tired and then do a massage, wrap her and then breastfeed to sleep and gently place her in the hammock. Some nights she was besides herself so I would pop her in the hammock and bounce her up and down until she settled. Generally that was when she was overtired though.

Sometimes the massage calmed her and sometimes it upset her. I just did some gentle strokes at first to figure out what way we were going for that night.

it can be hard to figure out what is going on.

[Arimeh]

Hey honey

I was going to suggest the same thing as Cass - no wrap, sleeping on tummy.

My kids wont' sleep on their backs. They will sleep on their belly. So I have a breathing monitor for my sanity.

And FWIW - most of the time Miss M plays herself to sleep - or talks (dunno where she gets that from - probably her father ) but if she doesn't, then I make her giggle, and she drops off a lot easier. So I take her on a "cat hunt" around the house - and search every room - walk in and out - with a jagged motion - and she giggles as I talk to her.. and then a few rooms later I look down.. and she's asleep. I've been doing that for months now - so it should work at the age yours is.

Its so hard with a toddler too - I always put a good dvd on or something like that - or I come out into the loungeroom so I can talk to DS whilst trying to put her to sleep - if I do that - then I put the fan on so she just watches the fan go round and round above her and she sorta gets hypnotised by it and falls asleep. Or I dance with DS to the wiggles or something and she will fall asleep. Most times she will stay asleep too when I leave her.

Dunno if any of this helps - but I'm here with lots of sympathy cos its hard with those.. challenging.. toddlers we seem to have

[~Trish~]

It does look a bit like he wants to sleep on his tummy? Or it could just be involuntary while he's learning to roll. Would you consider trying him on his tummy and seeing if that works? You could always by a sound and movement monitor for peace of mind.

He is soooo cute

[lestyrox]

Arimeh we so need to get together for a play date our kids seem so alike hehe thanks so much for the advice you've got some great ideas. I dunno maybe i have to just try and breath and relax and just go with it...so easier said than done though right?

He is soooo cute

hehe thanks Trish..yeah he is a really cutie sometimes when i'm fighting to get him to sleep he just looks up and me and giggles...i'm like dam it Tobie it isn't funny! and he just giggles some more and i can't help smiling..its the good times that make motherhood all worth while...

[boobaloo]

hey darl, i watched your vid, i don't think he likes being wrapped! maybe try to get him off without the warpping, and maybe on his tummy too, as it looks like that's where he wants to be. if you put him on his belly, put the palm of your hand on his back and gently rock from side to side, or pat him on his bum. good luck! and he is soooo cute!

[Inertia]

OMG! So cute!

Ok. In all seriousness. This is going to sound weird and random - but what always helped my babies at this point in time is something that smells like mummy. Like lying on one of my jackets spread out or in winter, draped over them until they were sound asleep - then remove it. Since knowing that I made a habit of feeding and sleeping on a bunny rug so that I always had one that smelt like mum to lay over them.

Its kinda the same way I get them into their own beds. Let them fall asleep next to me then move them into their own bed where they wake up in the morning. Eventually they just go there to go to sleep - although Harry has gotten wise at the moment and wakes up at about 2am and climbs back into bed with me - little smart alec.

They may hate it too, but when them rolling over in bed becomes a problem I go back to full swaddle. I got a nice big toddler blanket just to do that when they are a little older. Its probably twice the size of a regular bunny rug. Might be worth looking into.