10 Reasons that might not be good enough for parents to stop vaccinating

[delphmoon]

Who cares article/post/thread- whatever

Its a Great post and about time I say!

Thankyou- it was very informative

[Trillian]

Who cares article/post/thread- whatever

Its a Great post and about time I say!

Thankyou- it was very informative

The eye rolling is such a nice touch.

I don't have a problem with anyone posting anything, but usually most people aren't so over confident as to write something that comes across as being an authority on a subject, especially when the OP has written it in direct rebuttal of the other article. If you're going to do something like that, back it up with solid evidence, not just what you think as a parent, because that just treats everyone else like idiots because how do you know that it is even true? It's not referenced at all, so why should it be treated as anything other than someone's opinion?

[~mamaspice~]

The eye rolling is such a nice touch.

I don't have a problem with anyone posting anything, but usually most people aren't so over confident as to write something that comes across as being an authority on a subject, especially when the OP has written it in direct rebuttal of the other article. If you're going to do something like that, back it up with solid evidence, not just what you think as a parent, because that just treats everyone else like idiots because how do you know that it is even true? It's not referenced at all, so why should it be treated as anything other than someone's opinion?

I do not usually partake in debate on this forum but when I first read this thread there was only a few replies including PZ's first unedited one which didn't have her second line saying she'd be back to read it. (no disrespect to you PZ I'm just describing what thr thread looked like at the time) And to be honest I thought to myself, here we freaking go again. The OP obviously used the wrong choice of words by calling it an "article" And I'm sure we're all intelligent enough to realise that it was just a wrong choice of words. it just seems we're so quick to jump down peoples throats sometimes.

[briggsy's girl]

ahhhh if only people only wrote what they were authorities on - no one would reply on forums, the news papers would be much smaller and only contain news...

[Jellyfish]

Aren't a number of the articles on this site written by parents based on their research and experience? Shrug... thought that was sort of the whole idea around the forums! If somebody wants to describe it as an article it doesn't really affect our ability to read it and take from it as we would any other source of information does it?

I thought it was a good and well balanced post, thanks for taking the time to respond to the original.

[PumpkinZulu]

the news papers would be much smaller and only contain news...

I can't imagine such a world!!! Crazy talk

Mamaspice, no offence taken...I sounded like a bit of a b!tch at first, I realised I should probably give it a go...which I did, and I'm glad

[mel_cur]

Mamaspice, no offence taken...I sounded like a bit of a b!tch at first, I realised I should probably give it a go...which I did, and I'm glad

[MummaBee]

i personally would like to see the rebuttal. I dont agree with your point of view, but thanks for sharing your opinion

[Roryrory]

I am a vaxer, I'll be upfront about that. But what I would like to add is a little tidbit I saw on a program called The Vaccine War . When a group of parents were interviewed about vaccinating, they overwhelmingly saw it as a personal/parenting choice, not as a societal responsibility. That is, most parents don't want the government or doctors or society telling them what is or is not good for their child. So it's a personal/parenting call, akin to bedtimes, or whether you give your kids red food colouring, or send them to a public vs private school. From what I can gather, most public health officials would prefer we saw it as a "societal responsibility" - that we vaccinated our kids for the sake of the "greater good" in order to create herd immunity.

Startlingly, I found that I am therefore in the minority of parents - I vaccinate for societal "greater good" reasons. Every time I take my kids to be vaccinated, there is part of me that fears they will not be "normal" after it. I fear they will be the one in a zillion kid that has an adverse reaction. That they will succumb to something in a poorly tested vaccine. But I take them anyway, because on balance I support the reasons listed in RSAHD's article/post. I vaccinate my kids because I feel that it is important to contribute to herd immunity. (Plus my DH is a maths-head who now and then reminds me about statistical risks and what they mean in the context of day-to-day life - I therefore probably have more "faith" in science than many).

I am not posting this to inflame matters or take sides (though obviously I have one) but rather to add the "greater good" consideration to the mix...

[*Sparklez*]

I vaccinate my children and I might add I am one of those parents whom has 2 children who have the adverse reaction on their 4 month needles, I'm not yet sure on dd as we are taking our time on the vaccinations and when I say we I mean my family GP and I, I am pro vaccine and even though I respect anyone who doesn't, t the end of the day it's our own personal choices and we all have to respect one another for those choices..
As for RSAHD I say goo on him for having the balls to post this knowing the backlash that comes with it.. His putting his views and opinions out there like we do everyday.. No matter why topic no matter who it is someone asks for help, vents or shares their amazing views with us we all, everyone of us put our own opinions out there, to the like or dislike of others. It's part of life to be different.
In saying that I think this was a great, well thread, for just opening up people's minds to the opinions of a man that stays home and looks after his children and obviously takes the time to research anything and everything that will effect his children.. And I say thank you..
Let's just try and keep this from blowing up and put our objective out there maturely and respectfully without insulting someone else's intelligence or right as a parent in making such choices.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk xoxox

[Glamourcide]

Thanks for this post, RSAHD I'm a vaxxer as well, although have done my own homework and decided when and which vaccines are 'necessary' for my kids (eg, they haven't had the chickenpox vax, and I have delayed some of DD2's needles due to wanting more time to research further). I appreciate that you've taken the time to put this out there, vaxxing can be a really confusing and tough decision for a parent to make - we all want what is best for our kids and my opinion was that for my kids, vaxxing was in their best interests. Others may feel differently and that's what the world is all about, but we need all the info we can get, from both sides of the fence, in order to make the best decisions

[christy]

I do delayed vaccinations.

However, one point I have issues with personally is this:

2) Vaccines contain toxic additives and heavy metals

Vaccines do contain toxic addtives and heavy metals. This is not shied away from by the medical community and information about them and saftey testing is available on the internet also. Additives are essential to the safe and effective operation of vaccines though there is a lot of effort by the medical community to reduce these additives. Mercury for example has been either entirely or greatly reduced in all Australian vaccines due to pressure and expressions of concern from the community. Toxic additives and heavy metals are in our foods (even natural and unproccessed), hygiene products, water we drink and air we breathe. Poisoning and disease have been caused by these additives but with much much larger amounts, in the same way that many of the medicines we use every day can be deadly when used incorrectly.

My DD1 had some vaccinations prior to her reaching 12 months, none at birth but more so afterwards. She had high levels of heavy metals in her system. She's been tested a few times due to issues with Autism. I don't believe the vaccinations caused her autism (she started showing signs of issues at 10 days old), but I don't believe that any level of heavy metals is acceptable to inject into a child who would already have high levels of heavy metals (the majority of children with autism have high levels of heavy metals). It can't help things...

[delphmoon]

The eye rolling is such a nice touch.

I don't have a problem with anyone posting anything, but usually most people aren't so over confident as to write something that comes across as being an authority on a subject, especially when the OP has written it in direct rebuttal of the other article. If you're going to do something like that, back it up with solid evidence, not just what you think as a parent, because that just treats everyone else like idiots because how do you know that it is even true? It's not referenced at all, so why should it be treated as anything other than someone's opinion?

Hmm, I don't see many posts with a reference list referring to its 'solid evidence' or Scholars/academics posting on these threads...I thought most of us post according to our opinions/experiences/understanding as parents otherwise what the hell are we here for?
I for one feel that there was plenty of solid evidence and discussion on the topic in his post and if I wanted a full on essay about it I would go look the topic up in a journal or textbook.
I for one am interested in hearing the opinions and experiences of others- these are the real stories.

[Arcadia]

Thanks for the well considered points sahd...I agree with all of it!

I can see how the format/ tone is confusing though. Perhaps you could share why you felt the need to rebut the original article? Without a personal slant, it's hard not to read it as objective, in which case i too would like some references to help me understand where you're coming from.

I agree we can all post whatever we like, but it does help if the reader can frame the piece in the context of why it was written.

[Inertia]

While I disagree with the inference that Doctors are hard done by and struggling to make a living, most of the rest is okayish.

HotI, the point of a vax is to build antibodies. It gives the body a headstart on fighting the disease as it doesn't have to make the antibodies first. But unfortunately that is part of the myth of 'immunisation'. You are not immune. You are just prepared. Herd immunity is the goal, which brings me to RoryRory's post.

I do not believe that societal responsibility is a burden we should place on the shoulders of 2 month old babies. Adults yes. Absolutely. And if more adults got boosters then we would achieve herd immunity but we never will when adult booster rates are so pathetically low.

That is when it becomes a parenting choice.
Parents that choose to choose to do so to try to protect their babies.
Parents that choose not to choose not to to try to protect their babies.

And that is what we are talking about here. A baby. We can't give them food but we can inject them with god knows what?

The reason it is a parental responsibility is because I can make the decision myself for myself based on knowledge I am capable of understanding.

A non vaxed child may grow up and choose to be vaxed and I think that is entirely their right and their choice. As a baby though, that is left up to the parents and this is a hard enough gig as it is. We are left to weigh up the possibility of running into someone with whooping cough against the guarantee that our baby will be injected with strains of infectious diseases, heavy metals and toxic chemicals.

Which brings me to Christy's point and I agree totally.

I can sit in a peanut factory all day and the most I would do was sneeze because the peanut dust tickled my nose.
My best friend would go into anaphylactic shock and die in minutes.

We cannot know what level of X chemical or Y metal is safe for our babies. DD1 may be able to take it and never have a problem. DD2 will react badly to the exact same amount. And we are taking that chance of the unknown when they are 2 months old. That is incredibly brave of us. For the record, 4 of my kids got their shots at 2 months old so I am talking about myself here too.

This thread, while useful, is still misdirecting the public to the crux of the problem. The answer to our whooping cough problems won't be fixed by preaching to non vaxxers or attacking the AVN. And the longer we point the finger in the wrong direction, the longer it will take to get something done about it.

[Trillian]

Hmm, I don't see many posts with a reference list referring to its 'solid evidence' or Scholars/academics posting on these threads...I thought most of us post according to our opinions/experiences/understanding as parents otherwise what the hell are we here for?
I for one feel that there was plenty of solid evidence and discussion on the topic in his post and if I wanted a full on essay about it I would go look the topic up in a journal or textbook.
I for one am interested in hearing the opinions and experiences of others- these are the real stories.

You never saw the original, unedited OP which stated he wrote an 'article'. If someone wants to put that information out there as a personal opinion that's fine - but my original post was based on the unedited post and I just wanted to know what made him qualified to write an 'article' as if it carried some sort of authority, does that make sense to you? The information in the post wasn't the problem at all. Any why is it an assumption that because I asked what I did that it means I'm anti vax? Because that is the impression I'm getting. We ALL post our opinions and experiences on a forum, but because this was done as a direct rebuttal to a specific article I think it is reasonable enough to ask someone where they are getting their information from - if you are going to deliberately counter something that was written with scientific evidence to support it, the 'rebuttal' is meaningless without the same due care for factual information.

My point is that if this is being written as 'fact' then it needs to be supported because there could be someone out there who reads it and thinks that it is fact when it may not be.

[delphmoon]

Yes, I did see earlier that you pointed out that the word "article" has been changed to "thread"..its all words. And really, anyone can write an article...but anyway.....

I don't see in any of my posts where I inferred that you are anti vax- actually, I didn't even mention the word in any of my 'posts'...

I'm done...enjoy

[delphmoon]

double post.