10 Reasons that might not be good enough for parents to stop vaccinating

[*Sparklez*]

I vaccinate my children and I might add I am one of those parents whom has 2 children who have the adverse reaction on their 4 month needles, I'm not yet sure on dd as we are taking our time on the vaccinations and when I say we I mean my family GP and I, I am pro vaccine and even though I respect anyone who doesn't, t the end of the day it's our own personal choices and we all have to respect one another for those choices..
As for RSAHD I say goo on him for having the balls to post this knowing the backlash that comes with it.. His putting his views and opinions out there like we do everyday.. No matter why topic no matter who it is someone asks for help, vents or shares their amazing views with us we all, everyone of us put our own opinions out there, to the like or dislike of others. It's part of life to be different.
In saying that I think this was a great, well thread, for just opening up people's minds to the opinions of a man that stays home and looks after his children and obviously takes the time to research anything and everything that will effect his children.. And I say thank you..
Let's just try and keep this from blowing up and put our objective out there maturely and respectfully without insulting someone else's intelligence or right as a parent in making such choices.


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[Glamourcide]

Thanks for this post, RSAHD I'm a vaxxer as well, although have done my own homework and decided when and which vaccines are 'necessary' for my kids (eg, they haven't had the chickenpox vax, and I have delayed some of DD2's needles due to wanting more time to research further). I appreciate that you've taken the time to put this out there, vaxxing can be a really confusing and tough decision for a parent to make - we all want what is best for our kids and my opinion was that for my kids, vaxxing was in their best interests. Others may feel differently and that's what the world is all about, but we need all the info we can get, from both sides of the fence, in order to make the best decisions

[christy]

I do delayed vaccinations.

However, one point I have issues with personally is this:

2) Vaccines contain toxic additives and heavy metals

Vaccines do contain toxic addtives and heavy metals. This is not shied away from by the medical community and information about them and saftey testing is available on the internet also. Additives are essential to the safe and effective operation of vaccines though there is a lot of effort by the medical community to reduce these additives. Mercury for example has been either entirely or greatly reduced in all Australian vaccines due to pressure and expressions of concern from the community. Toxic additives and heavy metals are in our foods (even natural and unproccessed), hygiene products, water we drink and air we breathe. Poisoning and disease have been caused by these additives but with much much larger amounts, in the same way that many of the medicines we use every day can be deadly when used incorrectly.

My DD1 had some vaccinations prior to her reaching 12 months, none at birth but more so afterwards. She had high levels of heavy metals in her system. She's been tested a few times due to issues with Autism. I don't believe the vaccinations caused her autism (she started showing signs of issues at 10 days old), but I don't believe that any level of heavy metals is acceptable to inject into a child who would already have high levels of heavy metals (the majority of children with autism have high levels of heavy metals). It can't help things...

[PumpkinZulu]

MsKara the fact that you don't think vaccinating a child should be a personal parenting choice makes me feel uneasy. Should parents be forced to vaccinate their children? Do you feel that way about all vaccines? I won't be getting my daughter vaxed for a number of things (others I will), should I be forced to have her vaxed for the ones I don't want for her? Genuinely interested.

To me, it's definitely a very personal choice. Non vaxers are not killing out our population afterall; vaccines do generally work at keeping people alive, we are not dying of many things that we used to afterall, so I don't think people like me who will partially vaccinate or not vaccinate t all are putting lives at risk.

[PumpkinZulu]

I think if you read my post again you'll find what I actually said was that I feel comparing vaccinating vs not vaccinating with what time someone would send their child to bed, scary. The issue is much bigger than that.

Not really. It's a parenting choice that has nothing to do with you (collective), like choosing what time your child goes to bed

[PumpkinZulu]

Oh definitely! Please don't misunderstand I'm not disagreeing here, merely pointing out that all information changes. That's how everything moves forward - knowledge, techology, our entire existense! I'm sure we'll find out 10yrs from now that something we all use in daily life is detrimental to our health. It's bound to happen!

Like some vaccines?

(Tongue in cheek here!)

[MsKara]

Like some vaccines?

(Tongue in cheek here!)

lol exactly

All I was trying to say is that whether someone chooses to vaccinate their child or not should be based on research and examination. Maybe my view will change once our little one gets older, but I don't feel that choosing what time my child goes to bed needs the same kind of research or examination. I don't feel that decision has the same kinds of associated risks and shouldn't be used as a comparison, IYKWIM? Obviously it didn't come out that way and for that I apologise!

[RockinSAHD]

but they do get a kick back, like they do from some companies for recommending a certain drug. Every little bit helps specially if you aren't making heaps of money. I don't necessarily think that doctors purposefully try to mislead their patients, but they don't always research either, just tell you what they've been told accepting it with out any further question. As patients we trust them.

The goventment is seriously cracking down on drug companies giving benefits to doctors too, though they find more and more creative ways to sway opinion it's not as easy as getting a "kick back" these days.

[LuluHB]

Thanks for the OP RSAHD. Really nice to see "the other side" represented in an intelligent way. I am very much a pro vaxer - first and foremost for the welfare of my own children, but also because I believe that my children being vaccinated benefits the community.

[RockinSAHD]

I hope eventually the nasal spray technologies get a lot better and replace the injections too. The US has the nasal flu vaccine but I think it still has mercury, aluminium and because it's alive there's up to a 2.5% chance of getting the flu from the vaccine.

[Inertia]

funny, my father caught whooping cough from a non-vaxed child in FDC in our home (non-vaxed through admitted forgetfulness on the parent behalf, NOT a conscientious choice) - he'd had the boosters, and he still contracted it from her because he fell into the three high risk groups - former coal miner, former smoker, emphysema. immunisation status had nothing to do with it. months and months of him nearly dying every time he breathed too deeply cos he started coughing and couldn't catch another breath. months and months of delay in finding the cause - he was immunised, it wouldn't be whooping cough right? months and months of him not being able to be left alone because he was so unwell.

i'd be interested to see genuine studies that take into account transmission of communicable diseases when all risk factors are taken into account, not just immunisation status.


ooh, and on the work front - how many bugs that are transmitted at work actually have vaccines available? the flu vax (for instance) is only going to be effective against certain strains of flu, there is no vax (in adults) against gastro type bugs. they don't tend to be (in the general population) deadly in the same way that WC, HIb etc are in children with immature immune systems

vax rates are at their highest (from what i can gather - i'm not up for research now) amongst the most vulnerable within our community - the young, the old, the known immunocompromised.

I have been saying for ages, including in this thread, that immunised does not mean immune.
Also, who did the child catch it off? Unvaxxed children don't make it out of thin air.

You seeing it go from child to adult once doesn't change the fact that the majority of transmissions is from adults to children and other adults.

On the issue of adult vax, I think it's important to remember that adults have mature immune systems that can more easily cope with illnesses, whereas children are more vulnerable due to immaturity...so vaccinating children is just as much about helping their immune systems develop (through exposure to diseases) as it is about protection from specific illnesses. So vaccinating adults doesn't necessarily help children, because then they are not given the chance to build their own immunity itms? And vaccinations are 'safer' than the disease if you believe the government figures.

As for doctors and incomes...I think you'll find general medicine a pretty poor kind of life these days...which is why we're importing doctors from overseas, and why super clinics are being run by big multinational companies, because the regular gp in solo practice cannot make a decent living when fee increases are not proportional to the overhead increases.

I think it is something like 89% required for herd immunity. That is 89% of the population, not children.
Japan, the US and the UK all have 15yo booster and TDaP adult boosters (we only had ADT until 2009) and they have lower rates and less reported cases of Whooping Cough than us. 5000 in Japans population of 300,000,000 people is a darn sight more impressive than our 30,000 in a population of 21,000,000.

Adult vax IS important to protect babies. I think even RSAHD will agree with me on that one.

[MummaSue]

I I found that I am therefore in the minority of parents - I vaccinate for societal "greater good" reasons.

Me too!!

Great OP! & for the first couple of pages, I really liked the things being said, for & against. .

^^ What entreat said!! Thanks RSAHD!!

[JellyBean]

I hope eventually the nasal spray technologies get a lot better and replace the injections too. The US has the nasal flu vaccine but I think it still has mercury, aluminium and because it's alive there's up to a 2.5% chance of getting the flu from the vaccine.

Me too. Still, it's a sign of progression.
Contracting the flu from the intravenous flu vax is also listed as a potential outcome within the product package insert. A study to compare such rates would be good.
Though, you can't beat working with the mucus membranes as oppose the bypassing them - the immune system's great filter system needs to be in on the process, imo!

[RockinSAHD]

I have been saying for ages, including in this thread, that immunised does not mean immune.
Also, who did the child catch it off? Unvaxxed children don't make it out of thin air.

You seeing it go from child to adult once doesn't change the fact that the majority of transmissions is from adults to children and other adults.



I think it is something like 89% required for herd immunity. That is 89% of the population, not children.
Japan, the US and the UK all have 15yo booster and TDaP adult boosters (we only had ADT until 2009) and they have lower rates and less reported cases of Whooping Cough than us. 5000 in Japans population of 300,000,000 people is a darn sight more impressive than our 30,000 in a population of 21,000,000.

Adult vax IS important to protect babies. I think even RSAHD will agree with me on that one.

LOL! I do! But I'm starting to think YOUR a pharmaceutical rep!

[Inertia]

LOL! I do! But I'm starting to think YOUR a pharmaceutical rep!

If I was, I'd be mighty bad for business as a delay vaxxer.

[meow]

5) Vaccines can cause serious long-term side effects

We live in a rapidly changing world, we live in vastly changed homes, communities and environment. Expectations, living standards, life expectency, technologies, medicine and even the way that our bodies work are remarkably different than even a hundred years ago and are still changing faster than they ever have. Unfortunately this has caused new disease and vastly different ways to think about old health issues. These health issues are closely monitored and researched to find possible causes, one example is the MMR vaccine. Several studies have compared rates of autism in groups of children who have had the MMR vaccine with similar groups who haven't had the vaccine, these groups of children were all found to have the same rates autism.

I just saw a clip with a researcher saying the rates for autism were higher in non-vaccinated children. Perhaps due to parents identifying autism risk factors and then deciding not to vax? Causes of autism are still very unknown and vary for different children. It is possible vaccinations trigger autism for some children.

Interestingly the rate for shingles is higher in those vaccinated for chicken pox.

[~mamaspice~]

I just saw a clip with a researcher saying the rates for autism were higher in non-vaccinated children. Perhaps due to parents identifying autism risk factors and then deciding not to vax? Causes of autism are still very unknown and vary for different children. It is possible vaccinations trigger autism for some children.

Interestingly the rate for shingles is higher in those vaccinated for chicken pox.

Re: the shingles bit. Is the rate in vaxxed people higher than those who have had chicken pox naturally or just higher than the gen population? I'm guessing the rate is prob similar to those who have had the disease naturally. I guess it makes sense cause you need to have had chicken pox in order go get shingles so in effect having the vax is like having had chicken pox?

[meow]

Summary of the studies taken from our trusty source, Wikipedia The links to the studies are on there too though.

It has been claimed that adult shingles may increase after introduction of varicella vaccine.[24][25] Preliminary evidence that this has occurred is available from data collected from the Antelope Valley Varicella Surveillance Project (VASP) which began surveillance of shingles in 2000. VASP case reports indicate there was a statistically significant increase in adult shingles cases reported to the Antelope Valley Varicella Active Surviellance Project (VASP) from 2000 to 2003. The 56.1% increase from 237 cases in 2000 to 370 cases in 2002 yields a rate ratio of 1.4 (95% C.I. 1.2-1.7). Increases in cases of shingles reported to VASP occurred in every age category (except 70+) from 2000 to 2001. VASP also reported that verified cases of shingles among adults aged 50 years and older increased 27.5% from 2006 to 2007. (Annual Summary, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2006, 2007 Antelope Valley Varicella Active Surveillance Project, Los Angeles County Department of Health Services; Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) Cooperative Agreement No. U66/CCU911165-10; Mascola L, et al.) [26]

Varicella vaccine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia