Speaking of vaccinations...

[Nelle]

I still haven't got River immunised...there is a lot of umming and ahhing going on at my house, trying to decide the lesser of two evils. I've already put it off quite a bit, and if I AM going to, I suppose I should get onto it. But I'm still not sure.

SO, while I'm not after an 'immunisation vs non-immunisation' thread, because I don't want anyone to have to justify their decisions to anyone else, I'd LOVE to know:

Did you immunise your kiddies?
And why? why not?

If you don't want to post your opinion for fear of being a bit controversial, please feel free to PM me or email me - you can say what you want, I won't feel judged, cos I haven't done anything yet!

Thanks so much, I really appreciate this guys!

[Lucy]

Nelle, I really ummed and arghhed over this too, for ages, & I am still not sure (nor will I ever be sure, I guess!) if we made the right choice.

However, I have had all the scheduled immunisations for Olivia and Charlie and for Lexie, and will continue to do so.

Olivia contracted septic arthritus in her right leg when she was 15 months (BB members who have been around a while will recall that she was hospitalised and it was severe, & it was terrifying for us all).

The paediatric consultant explained to me afterwards that had it not been for her HepB vaccination, she would have likely lost her leg. That put the fear of God up me totally, hence I have chosen for to continue with the vaccinations.

That is my personal choice, and I can see the benefit for and against. There are as many parents experiences out there that will give you the flipside to my "reasoning", I'm sure.

I am not anti or pro vaccination, I have always just followed my gut at the time, for what is right for my family, & as with all things parenting, kept my fingers crossed that my choices are the right ones........

HTH

[ShootingStar]

We are immunizing Jesse.. he's getting his 4 month ones on Sunday. Although i know ill cry more than him, i think we've chosen to get it done because we were.

All of my family and DH's family, my sister's kids etc were and we havent really discussed anything less. I guess its just something ive grown up knowing is best. I think these things were created to help prevent such things like polio, maningacocle(sp?) and measles and everything else and it has dramatically helped diminish these cases. I know there are risks involved with immunisation, but our personal believes are that the better out weighs the bad.

Does anyone know if its true that you have to have your children immunised to go to a public school? My mum once mensioned this to me.. just wanted to clarify?

[chocolatecatty]

Caty got jabbed yesterday.
Funny (and maybe pathetic...bit embarassing too!) thing was that after thinking and reading a bit about it, I said in my head 'well, I'm sure Nelle has had River immunised and she would have had good reasons'! Anyways!!! Majority of my reasoning was that although the chances of getting x diseases was really slim, they were still chances. Plus my aunty had (or has? is it forever?) polio when she was little.
Yep she cried but it wasn't for long. Nope I didn't cry, nor did Mitch (I was too busy watching her 'cry like never before' face with interest).

You still get the gov. immunisation allowance if you choose not to immunise! So it's a win win really...hmm, unless you get some crazy disease.

[hannanat]

Kell, you don't have to immunise your kids for the to go to public school, hun.

Hi Nelle, how's River doing?

I have gone from being pro immunisation to extremely anti, to kinda anti, but definitely anti the current schedule. Does that make sense, lol?

I can see the benifits of immunisation, but I'm sure by now everybody knows about Layla and her injection/autism link.

My personal choice would be the following

* Definitely not give the Hep B at birth unless the baby is living in a very high risk situation.

* I would spread them out more and never, ever, give them together. Things like the combined MMR - no freakin way.

* I would also make sure my child was completely healthy and had not been treated with antibiotics in his recent history.

* I also think not all of the immunisations that we give are necessary.

[ShootingStar]

Kell, you don't have to immunise your kids for the to go to public school, hun.

I didnt think so.. my mum can be a nutter at times.

Okay I strongly suggest you take your husband with you I did to every single appt.

Oh i am.. i made him take the day off work last time and made it for sunday with these ones cos i just couldnt do it in my own

[beckles]

ok nervously i write why i don't vax....be kind to me:biggrin:

When i researched vax i read alot of Dr Donald W Miller (MD) works such as A user friendly vax schedule & the thruth behind the vax coverup, Vax the hidden truth by Dr Viera Scheibner (PhD researcher) & Dr mark donohoe & looked at the Aus Bureau of Stats, after lots of research i came to my conclusion that there is not enough public non biased research into vaxing. being a science/math geek 1 of the many reasons that helped me decide was that the amount that the schedule recommends to vax a babe up to 12 months old is the equivelent to 70 doses into an approx 60 kg adult. i believe this severely overloads the baby's immune system. IMHO most of the diseases that Aus vax against do not cause the epidemics it once did due to better food/nutrition & sanitation.

When looking at the individual vax's, the only ones i would bother with maybe would be polio, now it is not a live virus, if we travel to areas where polio is in epidemic proportions and tet tox if my child injured themself in an environment that i thought it to be a real threat. Hep B def not as we as parents do not carry the virus and therefore they are not at risk (we live in a very low risk environment) my belief is the government schedule this at newborn because they could not make it manditory for high risk people to be vaxed therefore bring it into the schedule and in 20 years they alledge it will be under control. Diphtheria, i don't believe is a threat where i live at all. Pertussis, there is alot of cases of vaxed kids getting this, and i actually don't think that my healthy kids would be at risk of the adverse effects being fully bf, healthy diet, well housed & looked after, Pneumococcal - no way- the cases of vaxed kids who have caught this disease is shockingly high, Hib, well i just don't see that the stats are enough for me to believe it a threat same as measels mumps rubella, chicken pox, this diseases i would rather my kids gain natural immunity to which lasts for life as apposed to vaxed immunity which deteriorates over years until often kids have no immunity after around 10-12. there is an increase in chicken pox & measles in 'vaxed' kids so also doubt the efficientcy of the vax. flu vax i would never give as it still contains very high levels of thimersol, the metal that was actually in ALL vax until alledgedly 2002.... although there is some in each vax but they don't have to declare it because it is 'only a trace amount'. hence my conscientious objection form

happy to answer questions that are respectful to my beliefs, i have no judgement to others that choose to vax i only like to know if their child has had the chickpox or measles vax because it can cause a shed dose of the disease.

hope that the names i gave will help others make their own decisions, whether that be to vax or not to vax. i certainly don't want people telling me what is best for my kids and i absolutely would never tell others what is best for their kids.:biggrin:

beckles

[Roryrory]

I honestly did not give vaccination a second thought, though I must say the consideration and care that Beckles gave to the issue makes me feel like a bad mother:frown: We did/are getting Flynn vaccinated - my DH is a science/engineering boffin and in his view the risks of the illnesses outweigh the risks of an adverse vaccine result. Plus when we discussed it years ago (pre-baby) I think part of his reasoning was that it is contributing to the greater good (ie: if no one was vaccinated the diseases would come back). I am pretty sure there are many arguments against these views, but like I said, it is something we discussed ages ago and now haven't even given it a second thought.

As an aside, I was immunised against smallpox, BTW - so if the nasty terrorist dudes ever get to the last two remaining vials I will be okay - LOL!!!!

[hannanat]

Beckles, I have researched and soul searched regarding immunisation for a couple of years now since Layla's diagnosis and I found your explanation perfect.

The thimerisol is a biggy for us, but everything you said is what I believe as well, and I'm ashamed to say I've grown a bit lazy in regard to explaining to people why I don't immunise. I also find it quite painful to dwell on. I am asked so often I kind of give a quick answer to close the conversation IYKWIM. Thanks for your informative response.

As to the dismissal of immunisation causing autism, tell that to all the parents of autistic children who had a perfectly normal child until the day after a vaccine. I'm sure they will tell you differently.

[AnyDream]

We chose to vaccinate DD and will again with our next one, mostly on account of my reading of historical literature in which childhood illness and death figure which astounding regularity. All of the vaccinations in the schedule are for scary very bad diseases, which STILL DO OCCUR in our population. Because most chn are vaccinated, they tend to occur in smaller pockets, if most of us started to chose to not vaccinate those diseases will become more prevalent.

Most of you probably don't remember that we had the beginnings of a measles pandemic on our hands 5-10 years ago, because there was a large chunk of the upper primary and early secondary school population in Aust who, due to a change in the vaccination schedules, had never been vaccinated.

Did I also mention that my friend's 3 week old son caught whooping cough from an older child who was not vaccinated?

Having said all of this, I'm sensitive to the right of ppl to chose not to vaccinate due to their beliefs about its dangers. And yes i think it's right that you do need to visit the doctor and fill out a form before you can claim your payout, on account of the number of parents out there (probably not the well informed types who frequent sites like BB) who just wouldn't be bothered to get it done (not due to any belief, but rather out of forgetting it).
:-)

[~Jo~]

Beckles what a perfectly written explanation. I so feel the same as you. Its wonderful to just go yes yes yes..with what someone else has written!

Nat I must admit after 12 years of having to explain myself I get a bit lazy too...there is so much research out there to be found that sometimes I just feel like saying go and look yourself lol. For me....I would never dismiss immunisations causing autism..there are just way too many coincidences out there...and Im sorry that there is still that sort of dismissal and insensitivity around. Ive only read and heard stories of parents talking about their perfectly healthy children until....Im so sad that that was your experience too.

Jo

[christy]

AS a senior mod, well done guys

As a mother, vet nurse, and human... I ummmed and ahhhd for a long long time.

Matilda has some vaccinations, but not on schedule and not according to what they "should" have. I have known some families whose children have had severe reactions to vaccinations. Life changing for the entire family. Like Natalie. Especially the MMR vaccination.

When Matilda started day care I went to a homeopath and received some drops to help her immunity against measles, mumps and rubella.

I let her have the polio as I have a family member afflicted with it and decided to weigh what I had read against what my heart said.

Jovie has not had any vaccinations, and probably will only have the polio as well.

Beckles you wrote such an excellant explanation, thank you for that. I know it wasn't something you neccesarily wanted to do.

I would encourage anyone making the decision, to do so informed with unbiased information. Of course everything you read is biased on way or the other, but maybe read a few different bits of both sides to determine what the best decision is for your family.

[hannanat]

Thanks Jo. I used to explain in detail to anyone that asked why I won't get it done and was actually asked about Zain's hep b by midwives continuously after he was born. I suppose I'm just weary of it all, for want of a better word. It's hard for people to understand and believe what they hear and read when their GPs are telling them their kids will be fine. People do and should be able to trust their health professionals - its sad that even some Dr's are ill-informed these days about things.

There is so much info out there, but it's such a difficult thing - you're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't. I think Lucy said it best - you just have to go by instinct and hope you're doing the right thing.

[christy]

Snap Natalie. Yeap I heard all about it while in hospital... and that was just for the hep B! No one even asked me at the birth though, thank goodness!!

[hannanat]

Christy, I was thinking and writing when you posted, hun. Polio is something I would probably get done in the future for Zain, too as well as tetanus. I don't know - it's such a hard one. I worry that because Layla had a reaction that she may have been genetically predisposed to it and Zain may have one too.

ETA Christy Its like some MW take it as a personal insult, lol

[Liz]

We are vaccinating. To be honest - I'd love to be anti-vax, but I can't bring myself to do it. My gut tells me to vaccinate. DH is pro-vaccinate too. However, I'm looking into each needle given, and we are probably going to request the MMR to be given separately.

I understand how people feel that we are in low risk environment so don't need certain vaccines.. but I do feel that we have this environment BECAUSE of vaccinations.

It's a tough one, and I must admit, its something I continually battle with, but always end up taking him for his next needles. My bro hasn't vaccinated his kids, but we've never discussed the reasons, so I don't know why. I have a feeling they were advised to delay any vaccinations until their DS was 2, due to my SIL having seizures after the birth... and coz they delayed, they didn't end up doing it at all. I do think they did some reading in there somewhere too tho. hehe.

[Debbie Lee]

Hmmm I thought you DID have to have your kids vaccinated to go to public school? Or maybe you just have to inform them? Either way, it's part of their enrolment to provide vaccination documents. Don't know why... I guess I should! LOL

The risk of complications from childhood diseases is much higher than the risks of immunisation.

Pretty much sums up why I vaccinated Gabby and will vaccinate Little Bee. It's not necessarily the risk of "getting" the disease I am worried about but more the risk of the "complications" if, for some reason, my child managed to get it somehow. Does that make sense?

Anyway... I totally respect the reasons given for why people choose not to vaccinate and I applaud your strength. I just don't think I'd have the courage of my convictions if I chose not to

[Nelle]

Oh girls thankyou so much for this! It still is such a difficult decision because I can see the pros and cons of both sides!

I never thought about the 'greater good' side of things though! It's true, I can say 'well what are the chances of River getting the measles' because lots of immunised kids won't be carriers.

Owww Cat! LMAO at your reasoning for getting Caty done!

Deb, with the whole school thing, I *think* this is the deal: our kiddies can go to school, but if there's an outbreak of a disease, we have to keep un-immunised kiddy home til the disease has left the school...so if a disease goes from child to child...that could be a long time out of school. Not a problem if you were homeschooling though hey.
But there's a good chance I made all that up.

Might look into Tetanus a bit more...my sister got stabbed with sticks and scratched by cats that many times...

Can I just ask, is it the MMR that people see as the culprit re: autism? My sister worked as a play therapist for a gorgeous little boy with autism, and I think it was the MMR his mum had the issue with...does that sound right? She said that she would consider immunisations for future children, but like others have said, on a different schedule.

Once again, thanks so much guys for answering my questions and giving me some really good points to think about - I was hoping we all wouldn't come to virtual blows, and I really appreciate how helpful you've all been!

*goes off to think some more*