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Thread: Speaking of vaccinations...

  1. #37

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    I won't be offering any more opinions Cai, because even though I definitely won't be giving Layla any more needles and am really so undecided about Zain, I'm not comfortable with having an influence on anybody elses decisions. I am terrified of the consequences of immunising Zain because he may react like Layla, being siblings, but I also have 3 fully immunised and 2 partly immunised kids who are fine. Did Layla have some kind of genetic weakness that made her more susceptible? I think she may have, but how do I know Zain doesn't as well IYKWIM.

    I really think it's up to parents to fully research both sides of the debate. I would hate for someone not to immunise because of something I said and their child become ill from the complications of a disease

    Last edited by hannanat; January 12th, 2007 at 02:08 PM. Reason: piking on my stepping out decision, lol...

  2. #38

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    I find that the more I research, the more hesitant I am to vaccinate my children.

    I do believe that a lot of the pro-vaccination literature/research available is sponsored by pharmaceutical companies, or that 'independent' bodies such as the CDC, use research/literature that was sponsored by pharmaceutical companies, and it's difficult to find independent, objective studies conducted by people with no personal bias (as we've seen, it's a topic that people feel strongly about!).

    From my own personal experience, the 3 times I have had the flu vaccination, within 1-2 days I've come down with a severe cold/flu. The third time, it was accompanied by a seizure. Every Dr I've seen says that it was coincidental, that 'it's not a live virus and you can't catch anything from it' .. maybe so, but frankly after 3 'coincidences' it gives me food for thought. I will never have the flu vax again.

    I will be doing a bit of fence-sitting for my children's vaccines, based on my own risk analysis. I won't be giving baby the newborn Hep B injection - I believe we are very low risk, particularly because I know for sure DH and I aren't carriers (we were tested while we went through fertility treatment). I also won't ever be giving them the chicken pox injection, because I believe, in most cases, the disease isn't that serious in children, and I would prefer that they catch it as children, not adults (and yes, I have a friend who actually died from chicken pox when I was younger, so I know that it's not always a harmless disease, and haven't made the decision lightly).

    Anyway, after all that waffle, I guess what I'm saying is the same as what everybody else has said - you need to do your own research, and make your own decision

  3. #39

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    Cherie, I think I'm quite similar to you - there are some injections I'll let the baby have, and some I'll be refusing for the baby. I am more pro-vaccination than anti-vaccination, especially with the non-immunised immigrant carriers in the UK (nothing to do with cleanliness, just that people with natural immunities and from other countries can carry diseases no matter what - I just wish we had a decent immigration system, like Australia), and personally quite enjoyed vaccination times as it meant a day off school for some of the tropical ones. But I will be giving vaccinations later than usual and I am going to have to consider seperate injections - they give them mostly in one needle for five things here. HepB is also at 6 weeks in the UK, which I'm happier about (although would still put it off until 8w; there are cases of hepititis in the UK and wouldn't not do it).

    I would never have the flu vaccination for me as flu doesn't usually kill you (well, men may claim it almost does when they have it LOL). Plus I've never seen anyone not feel bad for a week after that injection and it doesn't prevent the flu anyway! I wouldn't do chicken pox either (don't think I can in the UK), even though I have a couple of over-stretched chicken pox scars on my stomach now. But that's me - if it doesn't usually kill or severely disable then I'd rather not vaccinate.

  4. #40

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    We have recently been doing a lot of research into this as we decide whether to immunise Molly. I must admit, myself and Victoria are not quite in agreement. I would be happy for Molly to have everything except the MMR, Pneumococcal, fluvax, and varicella (chicken pox). She would prefer Molly to just have tetanus, and possibly a couple of others.

    I should note that, while Government literature often states that research has dismissed the link between the MMR and autism, this is not actually the case. It is a common claim and one that really gets up the noses of some of us paediatric health professionals. Studies into the MMR vaccine and autism have thus far failed to prove a link between the MMR and autism, but there is too much anecdotal evidence for any researcher to dismiss, and every recent study I have read has closed by suggesting that mroe research be done. In other words, recent research suggests that there is something, some factor, that causes some children to react to the MMR in this unusual way; what it actually is is not clear.

    As many have stated, it is damn nigh impssible to get unbiased information about immunisation. As I have said above, government literature has often stretchwed the truth a little about the link between MMR and autism, but having said that, Vera Schneiber's research is often a little light on facts as well, and some of her claims about the Japanese immunisation schedule changes have been disproved. Both camps are shouting very loudly, and us poor parents in the middle are left to try and make the right choice!

    As to why my choices? Tetanus is found in the ground and will never go away, and toddlers, once they start being mobile, are at risk of penetrating and dirty injuries. Until they start to mobilise, I see no need for them to have it. MMR - the dangers are well documented. Rubella is a non-event unless you are in a household with unimmunised women of childbearing age. Mumps is likewise a non-event for girls, although I would consider giving it for boys as there is a risk it can impair their fertility later in life. Measles is the dangerous one, with the risk of measles encephalitis, but this is a remote risk, especially in a healthy, well nourished child.

    Diptheria is non-existent in this country and requires a decent exposure (ie. you can;t catch it from walking by someone with it) so unless you are mixing with people from a diptheria-prevalent area, it is really not needed in this country. Pertussis is another one for debate; the pertussis vaccine is only around 60% effective, and you need a high level of exposure to droplets to catch pertussis, some research has found in the order of about four hours of close contact with someone with the cough; I would have it, on the off-chance that Molly goes into care and is unsupervised and playing with another child that is sick for an extended period of time. That said, I would only give it to her now because we have a newborn in the house; after six months, the pertussis would not kill her, although keeping her away from her sister for three-four weeks while she was contagious would be unmanageable.

    Pneumococcal disease stops being an issue after the age of two, and I don't believe they even offer it on the schedule after 2.

    Meningococcal vaccine protects against the meningococcal germ strains a and c. It is not strongly efefctive against these strains. It is also not efefctive against meningococcal strain B, and it is this strain that most commonly causes life-threatening septicaemia and meningitis. That said, I would consider giving it to Molly, only because meningococcal disease is easy to catch from casual contact, progresses incredibly rapidly, and is consistently under diagnosed by our health system and can be difficult to recognise for parents and carers. Some dubious protection is better than none at all. My DW does not like this one, though, because it is still a relatively new vaccine.

    Hib I would give to Molly becuase it is an extremely effective immunisation (almost 100% effective in most children) and Hib can cause a meningitis or epiglottitis (sever inflammation of the vocal cords) that progresses quite rapidly, like meningococcal disease.

    As we are not in a high-risk group for HepB, I would not giver Moll`y HepB. And I do think giving it at birth to all babies regardless is poor policy.

    this is all complicated because of the availability of multi-dose vaccines. The Infanrix Hexa that is given to babies from 2 months onwards contains diptheria, tetanus, pertussis, hepatitis b, polio, and hib. We won;t use that ebcause we don;t see any need for her to have hep b, or diptheria, or really polio either. There is a four-in-one that is given to older babies that contains diptheria, tetanus, pertussis, and polio vaccine - I'd consider giving this to Molly for the tetanus and pertussis component.

    Well, there are my reasons! This turned out to be a long post...

  5. #41

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    Think I am going to delegate reading this thread to my DH so he can come up with a view as to whether we should continue with the vax shedule. Schmickers your points really made me think long and hard, and Caro thanks for that info. Cailin I agree big slabs of info can be off putting but it is great to have it "all" here in some kind of digestible format, and like you said, if we can have a reasoned discussion it is very useful.....

  6. #42

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    One of the main deciders for us to have Maggie immunised is the that DH works with sewer systems and other yucky things. Even though he is immunised, we would both hate ourselves if something came home with him. Also I have a brother with Hep C, which has shown me that there is the potential for us to catch diseases that we might think unlikely.

  7. #43

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    MIchael that was so well written. Thanks for that....its nice to have it all out in such detail but still easy to read.

    Jo

  8. #44

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    We have gotten our DD immunised just because I thought the pro's of getting it done outweighed the cons. But its been very interesting to read this thread.

    Can I ask what it is about MMR vax that is thought to relate to autism. My nephew is autistic but my sister believes it is more due to genetics then vax (uncle on fathers side also has autism). So I just wonder did autism become more common once the MMR vax started?

    Second question I have is I saw some ppl said something about getting the MMR vax seperate, just want to kow why, what are the benifets and if getting them seperately over what time frame?

  9. #45

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    Statistically, there has been a significant jump in the number of children being diagnosed with autism since the MMR vaccination was introduced. There is still debate over exactly what the cause of that is.

    The pro-immunisation lobby believe that this jump in numbers is a result of the condition becoming more commonly recognised, understood, and diagnosed, especially now that we consider it an autistic spectrum disorder - ie. something that can have a range of effects, from mild to severe.

    The anti-immunisation lobby believe that the timing is too close to be a coincidence (such a sudden and significant increase in diagnosis, right at when the MMR was introduced) and that there are other factors which make it likely that the increased incidence of autism is related to the MMR. As well as this, up to 2001-2002, the MME vaccines contained thimerosal, which contains mercury, in an attempt to cause a heightened immune reaction to the vaccination; the symptoms of mercury poisoning are very similar to autism.

  10. #46

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    We want to have the MMR seperated. I did ask the paed at the time we were talking about it, and he said we can do that if we want. However, I haven't spoken to a GP about it, so I don't know if it's easily requested, or when/how it's administered separately. We never go to the doctor, so I don't have a good relationship with a dr, so I hope they're co-operative (whoever we see!).

  11. #47

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    liz you may have to have the MMR imported from the UK if you want them separate... i asked about 6 months ago and that was the case.
    beckles

  12. #48

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    Yeah, someone had them imported at our GP's and never picked them up so he knew we weren't going to give the vaccination to Matilda otherwise & we got it. We had to pay for it, but to me its was worth it.

  13. #49

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    hmm ok.. i better look into it soon then. Better find us a dr! lol.

  14. #50

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    Do you mean have the MMR immunisation separate from the other immunisations due at that time, or do you mean actual separate measles, mumps, and rubella vaccinations?

  15. #51

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    I still would like to know the benifets of seperating them.
    And Thanks Michael on that info re autism and MMR.

  16. #52

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    Shell, it's so it's not such a shock, I think. If it's spread over a longer period of time, there's less chance of it overloading the system.

    Michael, it's the actual separation of the MMR, so an individual vax for each disease and can be spread out.

  17. #53

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    Beckles I'd be interested in getting it imported... Do you know if its easy to do?

    *hugs*
    Cailin

  18. #54

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    I'm gonna touch base with my mum's gp - now that we live around the corner from her! I've seen her a couple of times before - like I said - we never have a need for a doctor, so I just don't really have one! I'll talk to her about the needles, and check out the processes of separating it. If it's not an option, Fletches alternative sounds good to me, just to separate the actual needles, as opposed to the actual diseases.

    I'm still debating the chickenpox one. I'd prefer him to have chickenpox as a kid, me & my bro had it as teenagers and it was hell! LOL. Not that we were vaccinated - just took us that long to get it! I had mumps as a kid too. Don't really remember it. I know mumps is a bad one for grown men too.

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