Melb baby dies of whooping cough...

[trishalishous]

I remember when I was at my doctor's one of the interns said that she had had the Hepatitis shots 4 times and just doesn't develop immunity. How annoying would that be?

my DH is the same with hep a/b, it jus doesnt take!

[Inertia]

So it proves the theory that different people get different immunity from the vaccines; we were both vaccinated the same yet I have the higher immunity.

Thats actually very interesting because I experienced something similar.

In fairness, my sister is 2 years older than me, however. We both got Rubella as children, but only she got the High School Booster (I was moving from one school to another and the one I was at had not yet done it, and the one I moved to did it at the beginning of the year, so I was missed). So my only exposure to Rubella was back in the early 80s as a vax. She got needles as a child, Measles as a child and the high school booster.

In 2006, her pg bloods showed no immunity.
In 2009 mine still read 26. So dropping but still there almost 30 years later.

It is obviously not her fault her immunity to it isn't awesome. Ironically, she was also the only one of us to ever catch chicken pox. None of us were immunised, but all my kids have had it. I just never get it.

Certainly with all this we cannot continue to blame anti-vaxxers for these very very unfortunate losses.

[~Stoked~]

A bit OT but I had something strange happen with my Rubella immunity and this has reminded me to ask my Dr about it tomorrow!

I fell pregnant with my DS in March 09 and had my immunity checked around April. I had borderline immunity. I was last vaccinated against Rubella when I was 12 (so 16 years beforehand).
Anywho, I didn't do anything about my borderline status as I'd thought I'd wait until I was no longer immune to worry about it.
I'm now pregnant again. Had my immunity checked again in November '10 and I'm suddenly immune... What the!? I definately haven't been vaccinated since and I definately haven't contracted Rubella in the meantime. I am really, REALLY interested to know why I suddenly have immunity. Seems very, very odd to me.

[sunshine_sieben]

No idea. But it would be interesting to know how accurate these test results are. Maybe one of the tests was a fluke?

[~Stoked~]

I don't know. I asked my midwife too and she is stumped. My immunity is huge at the moment too.. I don't know what units they measure it in but it was 29 and it's now 224!

[Yeddi]

Herein comes one of the greatest lies about vaccination. Vaccination only produces IgG antibodies, however there are 5 types of antibodies that work in fighting off a disease, therefore high or low levels of IgG antibody alone doesn't mean much. People have caught the disease they are immunised against when they have high IgG and haven't caught it when unimmunised and have lower IgG. This also is where the lie of "herd immunity" through vaccination comes in too, because herd immunity has only ever been proven with real virus' and real virus' produce at least 3 of the antibodies, not just one!

The break down:
IgG antibodies are predominantly involved in the secondary immune response, as in, it has to have got past all the other checks and balances before this antibody even comes into play in fighting off a disease.
IgM is a common antibody and is the first formed in response to an infection once it has begun.
IgE is a low concentration antibody involved in allergic reactions and fighting eukaryotic protozoa.
IgA is present in the mouth and intestinal tract, which is the main way for virus' and bacteria enter the body, therefore first line of defence.
IgD is found on the surface of B-lymphocytes and together with monomeric IgM, serves as antigen receptor for the activation of B cell and is very important in slowing or stopping the spread of a pathogen during the initial stages of an illness.

And hence the reason vaccination (at most) can only claim to maybe mean you only get a milder case of whatever disease, not to stop the disease altogether. If you don't get the disease at all, it's because the other antibodies (which aren't effected by vaccination) have done their job first.

[Little Chicken]

Have you been exposed to rubella at all? Could explain the sudden leap in circulating antibodies.

[~Stoked~]

Herein comes one of the greatest lies about vaccination. Vaccination only produces IgG antibodies, however there are 5 types of antibodies that work in fighting off a disease, therefore high or low levels of IgG antibody alone doesn't mean much. People have caught the disease they are immunised against when they have high IgG and haven't caught it when unimmunised and have lower IgG. This also is where the lie of "herd immunity" through vaccination comes in too, because herd immunity has only ever been proven with real virus' and real virus' produce at least 3 of the antibodies, not just one!

The break down:
IgG antibodies are predominantly involved in the secondary immune response, as in, it has to have got past all the other checks and balances before this antibody even comes into play in fighting off a disease.
IgM is a common antibody and is the first formed in response to an infection once it has begun.
IgE is a low concentration antibody involved in allergic reactions and fighting eukaryotic protozoa.
IgA is present in the mouth and intestinal tract, which is the main way for virus' and bacteria enter the body, therefore first line of defence.
IgD is found on the surface of B-lymphocytes and together with monomeric IgM, serves as antigen receptor for the activation of B cell and is very important in slowing or stopping the spread of a pathogen during the initial stages of an illness.

And hence the reason vaccination (at most) can only claim to maybe mean you only get a milder case of whatever disease, not to stop the disease altogether. If you don't get the disease at all, it's because the other antibodies (which aren't effected by vaccination) have done their job first.

So, basically, it doesn't really matter what my immunity is. If I'm going to contract rubella, I will. Is that right? So, does my new immunity status mean that my natural antibodies are strong or am I just totally confused!? Haha

As far as I am aware I have not been exposed to Rubella. Definately not in the last year or so anyway!

[Inertia]

That is strange indeed. I vaguely remember reading IgA somewhere - and I don't mean the supermarket!

Is it possible that we have had the exposure, the previous antibodies killed it at the first line of defence - so we didn't get sick or affect iykwim - but the rest of the body responded anyway and formed all the others that has kept our immune systems boosted?

[Yeddi]

I can't tell you if you are more likely to get a disease or not, but I can say without a doubt that there is absolutely no 100% guarantee that you can't catch a disease, irrelevant of what the blood test says. My point was that the focus on IgG antibodies alone is an incomplete and simplistic picture of a very complex biological system, and it is this simplistic view that is the basis for most of vaccination's assumptions about disease protection.

A blood test will show IgA antibodies if it is testing immunity, but that doesn't mean these mucus based antibodies have been created by an intravenous vaccination iykwim.

[sunshine_sieben]

Yeddi, I must spread the love, so have to thank you this way for an amazingly informative post.

[~Stoked~]

Yes, thankyou Yeddi!

[JellyBean]

In a study of children who died of SIDS (Sudden Infant Death Syndrome) two-thirds had been vaccinated with pertussis (whooping cough) prior to death. Of these, 6.5%died with 12 hours of vaccination; 13% within 24 hours; 26% within three days; and 37, 61 and 70% within one, two and three weeks, respectively. Source: Torch, WC. Neurology 1982;32(4): pt.2.

"vaccination is the single most prevalent and most preventable cause of infant deaths" Source: Vaccination: 100 Years of Orthodox Research by Dr. Viera Scheibner, M.D - formerly pro-vaccination.

Challenging information - but if you delve into it far enough, I'd be surprised to find anyone who claims this vaccine is safe, let alone beneficial- for not even the vaccine manufacturers have done so, although they have led us to believe otherwise.
This is not to take away from the terrible tragedy of the loss of a new baby's life to pertussis - however keeping the virus alive perpetually via vaccination instead of letting it die out naturally like many other diseases have over past millenia is the surest way to ensure sad cases like this continue to happen.

[Phteven]

In a study of children who died of SIDS (Sudden Infant Death Syndrome) two-thirds had been vaccinated with pertussis (whooping cough) prior to death. Of these, 6.5%died with 12 hours of vaccination; 13% within 24 hours; 26% within three days; and 70% within one, two and three weeks, respectively. Source: Torch, WC. Neurology 1982;32(4): pt.2.

"vaccination is the single most prevalent and most preventable cause of infant deaths" Source: Vaccination: 100 Years of Orthodox Research by Dr. Viera Scheibner, M.D - formerly pro-vaccination.

Challenging information - but if you delve into it far enough, I'd be surprised to find anyone who claims this vaccine is safe, let alone beneficial- for not even the vaccine manufacturers have done so, although they have led us to believe otherwise.
This is not to take away from the terrible tragedy of the loss of a new baby's life to pertussis - however keeping the virus alive perpetually via vaccination instead of letting it die out naturally like many other diseases have over past millenia is the surest way to ensure sad cases like this continue to happen.

OK. I'm not too good at maths but I believe that
70%+
26%+
13%+
6.5%
=115.5%

Call me a cynic but I find it hard to take anyone seriously if they can't add to 100.

[ladybirdflies]

Vaccinate or don't vaccinate. Just make sure it is an informed decision, both sides! Yes it's tricky to make a decision because it is very black or white, but at the end of the day, you are making the decision for your child, so make it informed! You can put off vaccinations until you have enough information to make a decision not out of fear or bullying. At the end of the day you have to stand behind the outcomes
My family were mortified that I stopped vaccinating my first daughter due to the reactions she got. My mother new a person who's child has severe brain damage due to vaccinations, yet she insisted it was worth the chance. WHAT????
The first half vaccinated child was plagued with illness and has asthma (confirmed by several Dr's) as a result of vaccines. And my next two. no needles, no illnesses!

[Little Chicken]

Considering about 80% of children are vaccinated routinely, and have been for a long time, plus the SIDS rate has fallen dramatically despite continuing vaccination, it's hard to say that it is the main cause of SIDS. Vaccination is not keeping pertussis alive, the bacteria in the vaccine is dead.

[Yeddi]

I have to agree with the questionability of the general blanket vaccination causes SIDS connection. Perhaps in some cases it would be a factor, where the odd child has had a hidden anaphylactic response to the vaccine but not all as SIDS is a fine one moment, not the next event and a reaction to a vaccine would have some lead in indicators. I know this will be controversial, but I think that one of the chemicals in some brands of disposable nappies might have more to do some of the random SIDS cases. I mean if this chemical has been linked to toxic shock (which is a quick and unexpected way of dying) and can kill a cat if it breaths it in, what is it doing on a babies bottom?

But an interesting thing I have found out was a study that showed children who had asthma and then have caught whooping cough no longer have asthma. It miraculously goes away, which is very interesting. There was a study that had it's funding pulled half way through (surprise surprise) which was having a look at whether or not a percentage of childhood asthma was actually chronic mild whooping cough, and that the huge increase in asthma was actually a rise in chronic whooping cough that's provoked by cold weather etc. instead. It's a shame the study wasn't allowed to continue, but apparently these things that openly question the safety of vaccination aren't even allowed to be tested.

[JellyBean]

Onyx I went back to my resource and I had missed 2 important figures (accidentally I swear!) and I have edited the reference. I still don't really get the 37%, 61% and 70% part but that is the esteemed Journal of Neurology for you...

Yeddi, I personally, like you, do not believe that vaccination is a blanket cause of SIDS, I believe it is a complex combination of immune status (affected by premature birth, genetic conditions, maternal toxicity levels, absence of breastmilk derived antibodies in early months, diet of mother whilst pregnant & breastfeeding, chemicals in personal care including commercialised nappies as well as the presence of the common flame retardant chemicals arsenic, antimony and phosphorus in baby mattresses and bedding).
But since infants aquire such a vast array of toxic and carcinogenic substances into their bloodstream when they receive certain vaccinations, and such a disproportionately large number of sudden infant deaths occur close to vaccination, that is why Dr. Vera Scheibner makes the above claim. She has done extensive research on the topic - particularly in the recording of changing breathing patterns in infants following vaccination - some of them up until death. She is quick to acknowledge that there are other potential causes, and most definitely a combination of causes that lead to SIDS, in particular the state of health, toxicity and immune strength at the time of receiving these chemicals into the body.