why vaccinated kids get those diseases

[paradise lost]

Thanks for that Tenar. I just want to add that the reason some kids still get the disease is that there immune system doesn't react as expected to the vaccine. The smallpox vaccine used dead cowpox cells. These cells were dead (harmless) and cowpox itself was not anything like as dangerous to people as smallpox. It was found that when you injected dead cowpox cells into someone their immune system forms antibodies against it. Then if the person is exposed to smallpox the body recognises it, because it's so similar to the cowpox, and it sends the antibodies it already made to deal with it. If the vaccine takes well the person will not contract the disease at all, if it takes but not very well, the person might contract the disease but will not become as ill as they might have, because although the antibodies they formed at vaccination don't offer complete protection, they give the body a head-start on fighting the disease.

This is why children who have had the chickenpox vaccine but still contract chickenpox often end up having a very mild episode with only a mild temp, a few days of being under the weather, and only a few blisters.

Certain people's immune systems do not respond as expected to vaccines and do not form the antibodies (that's why some vaccines use live cells of the disease which have been chemically or genetically disabled rather than dead cells or cells of a similar disease - to make the body more likely to react in the desired way). In the same way that some people's bodies don't react as expected to analgesia, some do not to vaccinations. There have been some studies in Africa that suggest that it is the absence of parasites in our systems which causes allergies and autoimmune problems. The evidence is still growing as there are not too many communities of adults who were fully vaccinated as children, but early results suggest that children who are fully vaccinated have a far lower chance of having excema, asthma, or food/environmental allergies if they have had repeated or prolonged exposure to roundworm, tapeworm or hookworm.

Bx

[BellyBelly]

What about side effects of the vaccines due to what is contained in the vaccine? The kids who are not vaccinated - 0%.

[tenar]

Thanks Hoobley, I don't know much detail about the reasons why the vaccinations aren't 100% effective, but that makes perfect sense. I certainly didn't know that kids who are vaccinated have a lower risk of athsma etc, and would be interested to see a report of that research, as far as it goes.

Kelly, I was intentionally not getting into that stuff, just explaining the mathematical workings of this particular counter-intuitive thing. Of course any parent needs to weigh up the risk of the child having the disease against the risk of getting a side effect - that's the basis of the entire debate.

[Trillian]

But then you don't add in those vaccinated children who will contract the illness, but yet not actually get sick, so they become a carrier of the illness and pass it on to those who are unvacinated - be it children or adults. The thought that vaccinated children can become disease carriers tends to worry me a little more than unvaccinated people.

[Phteven]

Unvaccinated people can also be disease carriers a-la Typhoid Mary.

[Trillian]

Oh of course, but as it stands it is assumed that once someone is vaccinated that they are *safe* kwim? You don't automatically look to the vaccinated people when there is a disease outbreak.

[paradise lost]

Kelly can you link me peer-reviewed, published (respectable journals please) medical articles showing which vaccines have side-effects associated with them, and the ingredients responsible please? Current vaccines? I have read the older stuff about ingredients no longer in use.

I would concur that by vaccinating DD i can only hope SHE is protected, though i haven't read of anyone dying because a vaccinated person gave them a disease they themselves weren't vaccinated against (again, links?). If vaccination only hopes to make the vaccinated person safe it is a shame so very many of the non-vaxers i know tell me their kids are safe because there's a high uptake and strong herd immunity where they live.

The thought that vaccinated children can become disease carriers tends to worry me a little more than unvaccinated people.

What difference does it make if you are unvaxed and sick how you got sick? Surely if you are unvaxed then the disease is a more of a voluntary possibility than if you are vaxed?

Bx