Hahahahahahahaha PMSL. Ben spent a lot of time reading the paper and running to get more tickets for parkingHe was a good "come on push" coach though and "you're doing really well, I'm so proud" coach.
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My 2nd midwife, Lucy, was sent on a break just before I was taken away for intervention. When she found out she cried as she had wan't to stay with me and she did not know where they had taken me when she came back.I like being there from start to finish, I would hate to see a woman from the start of labour but not be there for her during the birth or after
Registered User
I disagreed 8-[
When I had my epidural it was not medically necessary, but IMO it was absolutely totally necessary for my mental state. I was not coping well at all after having contractions for 26hrs and less than 5hrs sleep in the previous 48hrs & I felt that I needed it as I was at the stage of completely freaking out.
If you were to class mental health reasons in the area of "medically necessary" I would most definately change my answer to agreeing with the statement.
I know that support is a big thing for the mental aspect of labour & birth, but I had a wonderful midwife that was with me the whole time, Aaron & my mum telling me how fantastic I was doing, but it wasn't enough. I was freaking out & needed something to calm me down and relax, which was the epidural as it gave me a break from the contractions.
♥ BellyBelly's Creator ♥
Awwwww Sarah, you needed a Doula
Often thats what happens - women freak out (and or the partner!) in fear or without stability in the support team, so the woman wants out and goes for pain relief - which is why I am so passionate about this. Our partners are great and essential to have with us but aren't experienced at birth. Our mothers can be great, but if they haven't had a good experience or are not experienced in the kind of birth we want, (e.g. mum had caesars, you want natural) this can be a problem. You'd be surprised how many mums I know of that joke about their daughters thinking they will need an epidural to cope...
It can also be a problem when any of them can't stand seeing you in pain and want to get you out of that situation. They need to know that it's good, productive pain.
It's just getting this across to everyone and explaining what we do - unfortunately it's harder with first timers who are more insecure or nervous about someone else being there, when they are the ones that need lots of support (not that anyone needs any less).
Like Fletch said, it's easy not to be informed... but it's just as easy to get informed if you know where to go
Kelly xx
Creator of BellyBelly.com.au, doula, writer and mother of three amazing children
I absolutely think birth is natural and having done it once now i think i'd be cool about birthing alone even. DP was the bst support i could have had, he prevented me from freaking out and when i lost it a little he got me grounded again in between. At one point i was telling him i HAD to go get an epi as i was so scared of rupturing my insides (didn;t realise when my body said i MUST push i could push! LOL!). I expect i will birth free next time anyway given my active labour this time was only 3 hours. Though i was feeling it before i now know which sensations mean things (i.e. there was definately a time when pshing gently felt a little better, because her head was against the sacrum, and when pushing hard was imperative because her head was coming down the birth canal) and so i'd be less inclined to panic and more inclined to trust my body.
I am in awe of the body in fact. Biologically, it has performed miraculous things this last few days (looking at my football boobs! LOL!). I never really knew if not pushing would be dangerous and though Esme was a bit stressed it does show that if you don;t even get the urge, the baby will still come.
DP was my DOula and he was a toughie! He told me after there was no way he was going to let me give in. He sanctioned the gas and air only because we all thought i had premature pushing urge which was potentially a bigger threat to our home birth than my having a little gas&air to help me cope.
If i'd known i was about to deliver i wouldn't have bothered with it.
Hana
Im in the unsure catergory & borderline disagree.
For similar reasons to Fletch. Birth can be a completely natural process and a lot more friendly on some womens bodies .. but if the choice is made with great thought and information, the way a baby enters the world is the mothers choice and just as special as "natural"
♥ BellyBelly's Creator ♥
I just wanted to add that this is not a poll which is designed to say one birth is better over the other, but just to hear your thoughts on the statement, based on your experiences and what you have carried with you.
Kelly xx
Registered User
Having absolutely no idea, I was drugged up to the max with my first and I really regret that as I couldn't hold her after she was born because I was so out of it and she needed O2 and a bit of coaxing to breathe. If I knew then what I know now, it would never have been that way.
I choose to go totally drug free and my husband is the best "Doula" anyone could ever have. I'm very lucky there. Although with my 2nd they told me after 10 hours of labour that I needed a C/S and asked if I wanted an epidural, hmmm, Knowing that I was against them Hubby said "Oh no she doesn't want one of them", lol. He didn't realise it was an epi or a general, I chose the epi, lol. but no need Had an almightly contraction and she turned inside me and poped out in one go lol.
My OB is very aware that I don't really want him near me, just want him to supervise and collect his big fat check from my health insurance when its all done. I do have the gas on hand and in my birth plan I have the phrase It's a woman's perogative to change her mind and I may do it without any notice, lol. Always gets a laugh out of my midwives with that one. I wouldn't even have an OB ( He is a good guy) if it wasn't for my choice of hospitals. I prefer midwives and my hubby. He gets me through, he keeps me focussed and I zone very nicely.
I Believe that Birth is about me and the baby and not about medical staffs comfort and convenience. We'll do it in our time and on our terms and as long as we are both in a happy healthy state there is no need for them to intervene.
I stopped watching the birthing shows, when I was pregnant with my 3 yo. They made me soooooo mad, portraying epidurals, episiotomies and laying on your back with your legs in the air as normal birthing practices. I feel that US OB's have scared women into having these medical births of which a high percentage end up having Emergancy C/S and the next time don't even really get the choise for a VBAC they are basically forced into having Elective C/S.
I don't think they realise how unneccessary all that medical intervention is and that the driving force behind it all is LITIGATION. The OB's are just scared of being sued.
BellyBelly Life Subscriber
I agree with the statement. We certainly were designed to give birth naturally. We are fortunate to live in a time where medical intervention is available when it's necessary.. no doubt it saves many lives of mums & bubs, but I don't think intervention should be used just coz we can, I agree it should be for medical reasons.
My DH was a fantastic doula! hehe. When I was in a bad way just before the pushing stage, and saying I just can't do this anymore, he reminded me we knew it would get like this (ie transition where you feel out of control) and he basically told me that I HAVE to do it, I don't have a choice. He reminded me of what my body was doing and where it was up to, to picture the baby getting in position to come out etc etc and reminded me of the reasons we didn't want drugs, to have a bright alert baby. Altho right at the end before pushing he did ask me if I wanted the gas.. I think he thought I was dying or something LOL coz I was just flaked out between contractions and just completely worn out. But otherwise he completely supported me to stay drug free. He was also good at making all the pushing noises along with me! LOL. I teased him about that afterwards saying he made more noise than me!
We were pretty much left alone to labour.. which I was surprised at, I actually expected the midwife to be around more (she was there throughout the entire pushing stage tho). But it was good just being me & DH.
I'd do it again
♥ BellyBelly's Creator ♥
That's pretty standard in hospitals Ivana - they will be there for pushing the majority of the time and very intermittently other times. Most people expect them to be there much more hence think a Doula isn't needed because a midwife will be there. Can I please quote you for an article?
(Yes I know some of you had fantastic midwives in birth centres who were there the whole time but this is typical of a major hospital birth so you don't need to post to tell me otherwise
Anyways, sorry to distract from the topic, carry on! I'm enjoying reading your thoughts and very glad we don't have the ratio the US website had.
Kelly xx
BellyBelly Life Subscriber
Yup - quote away
They gave the impression in the class that they'd be there to suggest alternative positions for pain reief etc.. but they weren't, she never gave suggestions to hop in a bath or anything.. so I suggest that partners be well read up on positions for labour coz I know I wasn't thinking about it.. it was DH that got me standing up and swaying and stuff. Midwife just popped in occassionally to see how I was and look at the monitor.
btw.. it didn't worry me, in fact looking back it was good being just me & DH. I wasn't particularly frightened or worried through the experience.. perhaps if I was they might have looked after me more? But we were doing fine
Registered User
OK - I've thought about this for a few days now about what I want to say and here it is.
To be giving birth is a natural procedure BUT I would rather have medical people around me. To say its a natural thing to me suggests that we would be happy to give birth in the middle of a jungle with noone else around us but a birthing partner, and I find that absurd.
I want the following through all my births:
Blood pressure monitoring throughout pregnancy and labour
Temperature taken
Foetal heart rate checked during labour
Ultrasounds to say everything is going OK during pregnancy
Blood tests to check everything is OK in my body
A theatre on call to get the little bugger out of me if for some reason something goes wrong.
And this is the clincher for me - how can we tell if something is going wrong without the medical intervention. I personally am not prepared to take that risk, and will never have a home birth. But that is just me.
I would rather not have had an epidural and forceps delivery in theatre, but I did, so now - a year on, I'm over it. Seriously doesn't phase me in the slightest. Did I think for one second I could have gone on without it? - not on your nelly, so I'm OK with it, my body is fine, my duaghter is great and all is well in my world
So - I suggest that any reliance on modern medical instruments (blood pressure, blood tests, monitoring, doepplers, u/s) means that everyone needs the medical profession for their birth. But again - thats just me
Fi
♥ BellyBelly's Creator ♥
Fi, just checking, you do know that when you have a homebirth, a midwife looks after you through regular homevisits (ante-natal visits) and also for the birth? Most homebirthing women also have a doula or birth attendant too. Private midwives are not silly, if something isn't looking right they will suggest you transfer to hospital and call ahead, and most of the time in the same time you can be prepped for theatre.
If homebirth was so dangerous, do you think we would hear about deaths on the news? My teacher who has been a very busy birth attendant (mainly working with midwives at homebirth) has been doing it for 26 years - and only two deaths - both in situations where the babies had diagnosed conditions where they knew they would die shortly after birth. (i.e. tumor etc).
The WHO has said that a caesar is probably necessary about 10% of the time, when hospitals have usually have caesar rates of 30% and more, I think one in QLD has 60%. The thing is though, if it looks like you need one prior to the birth, a midwife will tell you and will not take on high risk patients - they know what they can and can't do.
All this said, you need to birth where you feel comfortable. Homebirth will not happen if you do not feel safe, labour will be slow and / or stall (flight or fight response) and same goes with being in hospital. So you need to do your research (then most of that fear will be diminished) and decide where you want to give birth. These days, everyone knows you need to hurry and choose and Ob and a hospital or you could miss out so many don't have the opportunity to even look at their options. But I guess this isn't about homebirth, not even natural birth but letting nature take it's course which can take place ANYWHERE - hospital or at home... do you know that CTG machines can be up to 50% inaccurate? So do you feel satisfied soley relying on these machines and having procedures as a result that you may not really need? Did you also know epidurals are related to almost all possible interventions you might have? So what happens in labour has a massive impact on what happens at birth.
I would be interested to see what you think if you were to read 'The Thinking Woman's Guide to a Better Birth' by Henci Goer. She's actually coming out to Australia to speak in Geelong in July, can't wait.
Kelly xx
Registered User
Hi Again,
Yes I do realise all about homebirths etc (if you recall Trish one of our belly buddies had her home waterbirth, so we ALL felt like we were a part of that one
Now I'm sure this all varies according to the private midwife you choose (there may be some variances to the above) but it does suggest to me (and many other parents I have had this exact conversation with) that the stats seem to be slightly stacked when referring to homebirths. After all, these are the same births that would more than likely have gone to plan in hospital as well. Of course there aren't many complications with home births when you are choosing the optimum case to study. So very likely to get great stats for homebirthing, which is fine, but for a scientific mind like mine, we are trained to look beyond the numbers.
When the CTG started to fail during my labour (I was on my side to try to aid Jenna to turn) they inserted a scalp probe which was far more accurate (even though it felt TOTALLY queer :shock: ) . This told them exactly when her heart was having a few problems, particularly when they tried to turn her by hand as I was pushing through my few and far between contractions. All these things for me pointed to a healthier bub through medical intervention.
So all power to you who want to do it au naturale (ie no medical input or monitoring, or hospital checkups, or scans etc) but if ANYTHING is happening to my body that involved my safety, I would prefer to have medically trained people ie midwives, drs and hospital staff, on hand.
I think the medical advances in the last 50 or so years have improved things in leaps and bounds. I agree that some of them add to complications in labour in particular, but even after I was very well informed for my labour, I still chose to go with medical intervention.
Its just about balancing what you believe with how you feel at the time. The only thing I would read up more on this time around was how to prevent OP babies (ARGH!!!! NEVER AGAIN!!!) and what the risks are associated with assisted birth - from a very impartial survey I might add. I know that stats can be very misleading until we know exactly what the conditions and sampling type was.
Anyway - not an argument, just a gentle prod in the favour of the medical profession, and all the good things we get out of itLike those scans. As my mum said when she watched Jenna wrigging on our TV set - we never had things like that when I was pregnant with you lot. And I look at my very good friend who has just had a baby at 32 weeks in Houston. Her placenta ruptured, and because of the medical profession she didn't lose her baby, and she is now able to express and feed through a nasal tube, and I look at two ofmy good friends who have their babies after losses, and then cervical stitches and c/s. I think there is an awful lot of good that some OB/GYNs do that maybe unheralded.
Lets put ourselves in these mums shoes and give the medical profession a jolly good pat on the back
Registered User
Fi, hope I didn't bore you with all of my homebirth stuff
Even though I had a homebirth I still had all the normal tests they do in hospital, even a few extra scans
I think people will always have differing views on this subject. My own DP was and is still against it ](*,) In the end we need to respect each others decisions. No way is the "right" way, it's just "our" way.
Take care
Trish
♥ BellyBelly's Creator ♥
Those things you pointed out, all fall under "unless absolutely medically necessary" - a placental abruption definitely needs medical attention - and you get no forewarning of that so no-one is to know no matter what care you have. It can happen at any time, before labour or during. I'm not bagging Obs at all. But there is much to be said for overdiagnosis and convenience which is very prevalent but not obvious to the eye of most consumers because they just don't know otherwise.
Unfortunately there are not enough studies on transfers to hospital from homebirth, but if it was through the roof we'd know about it. You do have a midwife right by your side more than a hospital midwife, continuity of care which has much better outcomes and if that takes your fancy it's an option. Midwives use dopplers which are far more accurate. My mum had an internal monitor, it fell off, she was told the baby was dead and a midwife felt it wasn't right - she used a doppler and picked up the heartbeat. So technology can fail you and it often does. Not to argue any of your points, I am enjoying this discussion so thank-you for sharing your views - it's important to see a wide range of views.
You are too right about the stats. A midwife did some investigating after questioning a caesar for CPD (small pelvis) and when she read the notes, she was over being pregnant and wanted a caesar - so thats not good in the stats for real cases of CPD - it doesnt help when this is already overdiagnosed and has been for many years - this was about when even our mums gave birth and Obs were embarassed when mums gave birth at home fine, to bigger babies. There are plenty of examples on BB of overdiagnosed CPD where they have birthed fine after.
Kelly xx
Registered User
Trish - you didn't bore us. It was a beautiful thing to behold, and you know that
Kelly - wouldn't it be nice if all the stats came off a level playing field
Moderator
WRT reasons for c-sections, I have a good friend who does ultrasounds. On many occasions she has been begged by mothers to "find something wrong" so they can have a c-section. She of course refuses to do so.
Maybe they need to distinguish between c-sections for personal reasons and those for medical reasons so we can see the true picture.
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