Bulldog Inducement

[Bathsheba]

I know that it may seem to be "just a football match" but that seems to be saying that the event is of no greater importance than a football game played in Nan's backyard. But I don't think you can come at the problem from that angle. It's not just a football match... it is a product and service that generates millions.... who amongst us has given more to charity than personal entertainment? Surely the millions of children born into poverty in Africa is more important than our sources of fun?

I personally don't beleive money is King... that is why, despite the financial difficulties I have been a SAHM for 9 years (not consecutive). Many mothers place their newborn babies in child care because they "need the $" when they could technically live on 1 income.... I don't mean to inflame anger... but it's reality that people will do things for their careers that mean a child has to be temporarily put second. Who knows... maybe Brian figures that he can retire at 35 and be a better dad than most of his mates from that point on? So I'm not fixating on the $ or the game. I think we should set about educating the average mum and forget about all that peripheral stuff... just my thoughts.

[JellyBean]

The whole thing about the 'parents right to choose' is not really relevant in this instance, I believe. What about the baby's rights to come into this world as risk-free as possible? Who is the advocate for the one who knows what is best for itself but cannot yet speak for itself? Who is the most fragile in this situation? Who requires protection above anyone else? The baby - of course.
In maternity practice, the chosen outcome should always be based upon what is best for the baby - not what is best for the parents based on their external employment adgendas.
I understand that football is important to this family - but nothing can be so important that it is worth sacrificing the safest possible journey of a child's entrance into the world. The poor little soul's voice has been stolen from him/her - before they even have the chance to speak.
God knows how important football is to this guy - and chances are - their little cherub will NOT choose to come whilst he is playing. But give the poor thing a chance for heaven's sake!!

[Bathsheba]

I agree JB... but it's not about Football... it is not Football's fault... the fault lies with the lack of education received by parents. I just think people are misdirecting their anger. Substitute the word "football" for "career".

[kirsty_lee]

I understand all the important footy business blah blah, I'm a follower myself - but if he takes his career so seriously (not just him ykwim?), why not plan it so your baby is NOT due anywhere near such an important time.

FGS, I didn't want a baby at Xmas, so I avoided conceiving during the right time, simple.

:yeahthat: I am a fan as well. But I guess I am just looking at it in the 'grand scheme' of things. What would you rather. Be there for the birth of a child or play football kwim?

[Just Me]

I think it's sad how clinical he sounds about the whole thing - imagine being the baby and growing up to read that article ... what should be one of the most exciting days of your parents' lives as long as it doesn't interfere with Dad's football match. I know I would feel completely undervalued.

The whole article is just sad.

I feel sorry for the woman too - I have been induced to give birth and if your body is not ready, it is not fun at all. I hope it doesn't take 3 days for the induction drugs to work for her like it did for me, that would make it a weekend, and we can't have their baby being born on a weekend. Doesn't he or she understand that nothing comes before the football???

I wonder if the woman is going along with it because that's the only way she is going to get the support of her partner. She is putting herself at a lot of risk and through quite a horrible, violating and traumatic thing as well and I'm not sure that she understands that it is not like going into labour naturally.

[Bathsheba]

What would you rather. Be there for the birth of a child or play football kwim?

I would ask: "Be there for the birth of a child or work".

[kirsty_lee]

Good point bath. And I reckon 9 times out of 10 people would say birth. No way would dp go to 'work' instead of being there for the birth of his child. I mean he took a week off work before she was born because I was in pre labour and he wanted to be there to help me and make sure if the time came he was there

[mrscricket]

There is a interesting comment in today's paper - under the headline "Why risk your baby?" (Hope she didn't read that before she went in for her inducment ) that Adam Gilchrist's son suffered complications after being deprived of oxygen after being induced for the Boxing Day test. He says now "Looking back it seems stupid that I put myself into that position.I should of just walked away from cricket for the critical week or weeks, or however long it took".
I guess when you are in the moment, and you may feel pressure from your club/boss/workplace, you don't consider the risks. Without knowing the facts, I would make the judgement that their doctor is partly to blame. Has he/she layed out every potential risk for them? Maybe he has and they are still ok with that..

I hope it all turns out well for them - the fact that they may spend the first few weeks of their babies life copping a backlash from the media/public is sad. I'm not saying whether I agree with their decision or not - it is their choice and they will have to cope with the consequences, I guess.

[Erin_25]

Lets remember he did not write the article himself & how it has come across is one persons take on the situation......it could also have very well been written by someone with no experience or lack of education in regards to the situation making it sound so "matter of fact" too.

I agree with using "work" instead of football, that's what it is really about & they would not be the first nor the last to do this for "work"reasons....it's just that we don't read about it in the paper everyday.

I don't think it's fair to say anyone has been "ill-informed" etc as we do not know first hand what they have been told, what reserach they have done or the information given to them.

NO my DH would not choose going to "work" over being there for the birth of our child, but it doesn't always work that way for people in regards to their situation or their work.

[Bathsheba]

Thanks I know it seems I am a terrier dog on the ankle of this thread that just won't let go... but I just think it would be really helpful to the discussion if people could see the difference between "playing football" as a job and as a form of recreation. Big difference. I'm sure there are lots of women who are at their wits end about the obsession that football is in the lives of their men. But I think we have to be careful not to overlay our frustration onto this situation. Brian Lake doesn't "play" in the usual context of the word. "Playing" means "for fun". He "works football". I am not excusing his choice because he has made this decision to support an inducement for work reasons but if people can think of it in that context then it will be a better discussion i think. Yes football is not life and death... but a lot of the things we value in life aren't life or death either. We risk our lives for "silly" reasons like cosmetic surgery and a need to relax (eg smoking) so I don't get the particular vehemence when a risk is taken in the name of football. Like I said, everyone has their blind spots. And the basis for the blind spot is a lack of education. The average person does not understand how risky an inducement is... THAT is the issue. How can we rectify that??? I had my 3rd child induced at 37 weeks and he was 9 pounds and perfectly healthy.... going from personal experience i should be all for it... but I'm not. I was terrified. (I also had cholestasis BTW) but I was more than aware about how things could go terribly wrong.

ETA: that's interesting Snacks about that article! I'm glad there has been some useful media response.

[mrscricket]

It is such a hard situation to discuss. For all we know Shannon could of said to Brian "Honey I'm booking in for an inducement whehter you like it or not" and Brian could of been walking to his car as he was pursued by a journalist, therefore he come off sounding like a meathead football player, when in actual fact the times I have seen him on tv, he seems quite intelligent.

As it has here on BB, this issue may stir up some intelligent discussion within the media and prehaps the message may come across that an inducment is not something to be taken lightly, as it was in yesterdays paper.

I had a c-section for a breech baby which was planned in advance and he came at 37 weeks. Although I too was aware of the risks, I also trusted my doctor and his medical team. Fingers crossed it all goes well for Shannon and Brian and that they have a wonderful experience.

[Rouge]

Yes its all very sad. And yes we're all preaching to the converted here. But the response the situation has received gives me great hope. I know my MIL had 4 inductions out of 5 and 1 of those was my husband which was a week before Xmas so he wouldn't be born on Xmas. It wasn't uncommon then, yes it wasn't a drip it was ARM but induction is still induction. I was induced (as in my mother was) due to complications related to diabetes and you'd seriously all die if I told you by how much. The first week or so I spent in a quarantined room and in a humidicrib with only my parents being able to be near me due to germ phobias at the time. And I was quite prem, but those days thats what they did and even still I was 7lbs and they were concerned had I went to full term my mother wouldn't have coped with a 10-11 lb baby. Does that mean they were right? No. But we have all been a lot more educated, and we continue to be, especially through situations like this. We need to step away from the convenience of birth (or inconvenience) when it comes to any form of intervention, be it induction, ARM, C/S etc as studies are continuing to show that it is like russian roulette and just because Mrs Jones had an awesome induction doesn't mean everyone will. And the stories of inductions gone bad are finally coming to the surface.

Its interesting though what society deems as ok. A few years ago when Cate Blanchette took her child all of a few days old to the 20/20 summit (I think that was it) there was an uproar about what a horrible mother she was and how she should be at home bonding with baby. Now IMPO I think it was great that she chose to take her child with her, it was her third child, she knew what she was doing and to be frank there are plenty of women in countries who give birth and continue to work only hours after birth with child in tow. She wasn't neglecting her child but she felt her cause or "the" cause was important so insisted on taking part. Yet its perfectly ok to induce a child for WORK, as Bath put it so eloquently.

But the funny thing is I know many partners who have had phone calls from work the DAY their child is born asking for help or assistance. DH was also rang after the birth of our daughter. But he was also in a position to say NO. Some people aren't. And no I'm not talking about football here either, I'm talking everyday middle class australians.

I feel for this couple as I doubt they are the first to do it, nor will they be the last but they are being made an example of. And whilst that could help educate australians on birth practices, I wonder how its going to impact on what should be a special time for them.

[Smoke Jaguar]

The thing is, it's HIS choice to play or to be at the birth. Somehow it's come down to her making a choice between letting things take their course or to unnecessarily medicalise and possibly complicate the birth.
I actually don't think I'd judge him for being at the match instead of at the birth - birth can happen beautifully when supported just by women What I am having problems with is the birth then having to be manipulated to fit in with the finals. If it means so much to him to be at the birth, be at the birth, otherwise play the game, is the way I see it. Really, I don't see an adult in a couple of decades having a personal crisis stemming from knowing her dad was playing finals footy instead of being at the birth - it's a pretty good excuse not to be at the birth, as much as the birth is a good reason not to be playing. To have it both ways with so much real risk (like, a lot more than VBAC or perceived risk of homebirth!) confounds me. When people get sick of me talking about my right to homebirth I always hear the same tired old saying of "as long as the baby is born healthy"...as if my own choice means I've put myself above my child, which is not what my birth choice is about at all. Yet, here, the wellbeing of the child is being entrusted to faith in medicos to finish off what nature started. "As long as the baby is born healthy" has not been the primary consideration - it's parents being over at the same time, not wanting to 'worry' on the field etc.
My dad wasn't at my birth and was at my sister's. He didn't even have the excuse of being away at sea (merchant seaman for all of my childhood) at the time - he was led astray by the idea that a first birth takes AGES by a family friend and went to their place for lunch (not even that far away at the time) and missed the event! No, I don't hold it against him. FWIW, my sister's birth ended up in a prolonged labour and ended in epidural, with some breathing issues for her...so, for me, the dad being there isn't critical and I know it is for others.
I just can't see how this is an informed decision, and if it is, good luck to them!

[Bathsheba]

That's a really good point Maya... about women and babies doing fine by being supported by women... maybe that was at the back of my mind all this time it's another unpopular idea these days.... but I completely agree: it wouldn't actually be that bad if he did play while his wife was giving birth as long as she had the proper support. It would be sad if he felt the pressure to attend... when really... it's not always in the best interests of the baby. But it's totally up to what the mum needs.

[Lulu]

Ha ha ha - my dad was told to p!ss off (literally) by the midwives when mum was in labour with me! He was driving everyone crazy with pacing and worry so they made him go home. AND I was number 5!

He wrote a fantastic letter to my auntie about it all - so funny.

Ummm my point? I dunno

[LimeSlice]

Lulu!
Apparently my dad sat in the staff lounge with the doctor eating steak and jelly while I was born...mum never let him live it down

[Bathsheba]

... I meant to add though if Brian wants to be there and will be a genuine support then fine... bit of tricky subject but maybe father's need to feel ok about not attending Really. from a guy's perspective they are in a no-win situation. These days it's the expectation that they MUST attend... even if their nerves will just be a distraction to the woman in labour. I actually requested that the middy wait a while before she let DH in because she was about to insert a drip needle. I know that my DH often faints when there are needles involved and I just couldn't face being thrust into the role of carer to my DH while I was in labour. If my DH was a footballer I would feel perfectly ok about him playing while I was in labour... I would never say it to my mothers group though... can you imagine the scowls! Yes I felt proud that my DH was able to cut the cord with my last two births but if I am honest he was... for most of the labours... more of a distraction that support. I love him... but that is the reality. The midwife who had been through labour herself and I could see the deep compassion in her eyes was, at the time, the biggest thing I needed. There was a time in transistion though that DH was helpful but he also feel asleep on the couch when I was asking for water... hmmm. I don't subscribe to making them watch so they feel guilty or sorry or grateful or anything like that. Well, maybe a small part of me does... but I don't agree with it LOL anyhow... I've lost my point too...

[bon]

My due date is the AFL grand final day. When DH realised that, he told me that if the Saints are in the grand final and I go into labour, he won't be coming. TBH I felt pretty ****ed off that he would favour watching a football game on tv over seeing his fourth and last baby being born, but then I thought about it for a while and I figured I would be just fine if it was just me and my mum there. He has since changed his mind anyway - he came to the conclusion all by himself that it would be silly to miss the birth of his daughter for a footy game. Not that he has to worry about it anyway - my babies never come on their due date, and it's still questionable whether the Saints will make it all the way to the big game anyway