"Enjoy your Labor" by Gilbert Grant is GREAT!

[2CheekyMonkeys]

i guess the point to all this is, if you have taken steps to research both positive and negative effects of all aspects of labour and birth and are knowlegeable then you have done all you can to make the right choices for yourself and your baby. i think maybe this would have gone down better if put in a more respectful, less judgemental and friendly manner... ??

[fatmama]

i think maybe this would have gone down better if put in a more respectful, less judgemental and friendly manner... ??

LOL what's disrespectful about sharing my reaction to the book and my experience? I think you all just feel threatened that someone doesn't share your view. I don't, I think its great you enjoyed yourselves. But many women don't, and many, like me, would benefit from Dr Grant's information.

I've never found such a closed club kind of forum where the alternative view was so irrationally demonised. I think that's sad but its your prerogative. I hope to find an OB for this pg that supports a repeat of my wonderful peaceful birth last time.

[Toomanytoomany]

LOL what's disrespectful about sharing my reaction to the book and my experience?

"Propaganda," "lies and deceit," "closed club," "irrationally demonised," sarcasm, using all-caps (and then responding sarcastically when you are informed that's read as shouting on the interwebz).... You're just being rude, and people have actually been quite restrained in their responses.

The shame is that this is actually an interesting topic for discussion if you'd put down your cudgels for one moment. Can you not see that you aren't simply discussing your experience, you are putting down the reasoning and the intelligence of women who have come to different conclusions?

I don't think anyone here has actually said that epidurals aren't a valid choice for many women for a variety of reasons. I think you'll find many members here at BB have opted for them - and I doubt a single one of them has been flamed for their efforts.

Every single medical procedure, from epidurals to lancing a boil, has risks, and these must be weighed against the benefits. For some, the risks are far outweighed by the benefits. For others, less so, and women decide that for them, it's not a rational choice. Why this is a cause of such distress for you is a little perplexing.

[fatmama]

Can you not see that you aren't simply discussing your experience, you are putting down the reasoning and the intelligence of women who have come to different conclusions?

No, actually I can't. I think you guys are doing exactly that. Respect has t o go both ways. Re-read the original post. It was perfectly innocuous and merely sharing my opinion.

Just as you're entitled to call it "bias" I'm entitled to have the opinion it is propaganda. I totally respect that some women will choose to have no epidural, but there is no respect from you that some will benefit from them.

Disappointing to my mind. I thought it was a great topic to share info on. And I still hope some women benefit from seeing it on here even if you don't like that.

[HotI]

There are some interesting reviews of this book on Amazon. Have a read of the 3 star review by Jeanette, quite a detailed review.

[Rouge]

THIS is propaganda and no doubt the line that has caused the most offense and upset here...

The message is - if you want one, do NOT be scared off by the propaganda. And hey if you don't want one, just go your merry way but DON'T spread lies and deceit.

You are quite happy to sit there and sprout how we are all liars but then look at your own words. A woman who enjoys her birth without drugs is not lying. Nor is a woman who has a multitude of intervention due to an epidural.

So whilst this might be your point of view, which you are of course entitled to, you do not need to come here and put women down as a result of that opinion. Just because there are others who do not necessarily agree with this author's work doesn't make them wrong.

My advice to you would be if you wish to promote this book on pregnancy forums, perhaps be gentler in your approach and choose your words carefully because right here right now you have offended more than you have helped your cause.

I honestly don't think you've done this guy any favours, moreso illustrated the lack of credibility of his work.

[Kailani]

I think I'd feel more confident making such decisions by listening to someone who has had both a drug free birth and one with an epidural - who better to ask! Not someone who administers epidurals for a living...

But I agree with you that the book and author shouldn't be criticised unless the book has been read...

[fatmama]

LOL *he* doesn't need the promotion, he doesn't get paid any more as stated.
If women are so anti-epidural they won't read the book and they won't have one. If they are only not having one because they are scared off then they may read it and be reassured. So actually, I did exactly what I wanted to do. I was never trying to convince those soooooo against it they can't see the other side.

Once again, respect goes both ways. My original very respectful post was shown none. Interesting.

[Rouge]

Calling people liars is hardly respectful... And yes it is interesting that you see it the way you do

[suse]

Once again, respect goes both ways. My original very respectful post was shown none.

Fatmama, it cannot be said much more plainly that your original post was not written in a way that was respectful (whether you intended it to be disrespectful or not). Without exception, you have accused those who advocate for or choose natural birth of spreading lies and deceit, and by referring to the risks of an epidural as mumbo jumbo and propaganda you suggest that those who choose not to have an epidural for whatever reason are credulous and incapable of reasoned decision making.

I do question the assertion that Dr Gilbert gains nothing from writing this book or does not benefit from the promotion of it - my credulity does not stretch to think that he did not receive payment for writing it and will continue to receive royalties or other benefits from its sales.

[Toomanytoomany]

I'm puzzled as to why you think people here are "anti-epidural". I don't want one because I've never needed one. I enjoy drug free labour just fine. I'm not going to buy a book I don't need about a procedure I will in all likelihood never use. I'm happy to read the research (independently of Dr Grant's interpretation) should you care to cite it.

But then I'm a liar who spreads deceit and propaganda, so what would I know, right?

[2CheekyMonkeys]

i think this is just going to go on and on if we all keep responding.