How much would you be willing to try if you were overdue?

[JellyBean]

Oh - and yes Bathsheba- there are chemicals in baby products like Johnsons which are arguably far worse that cannabis - petrolchemicals, coal-tar dyes etc. And people slather this on their babies every day assuming that because they are legal products that they must be safe. We are all suckers for heavy marketing!!

And you know those accumulated heavy metals which are hard to remove? There are natual chelation methods available now to remove them. You may wish to google Zeolite- Natural Cellular Defense by Waiora. I think you will find it very interesting!!

XX

[Bathsheba]

Great post Jelly bean... I'm not trained in the history, manufacture or uses of medicines but that is exactly how i felt about legal vs illegal drugs.

ETA: just saw your second post JB Thankyou! And yes, so true about chemicals that parents are happy to slather on because that think legal = safe.

[Lolli]

Ugh, I hate it when I find really interesting threads and have to jump in late.

I just wanted to throw this into the mix (so to speak ) I personally know two people who smoked pot every day, throughout most of their pregnancies. This was 15 and 19 years ago, and one still smokes regularly now.

One of these people smoked right up until she went into labour (and during the first few hours fo labour too, I think). She induced herself with castor oil (a whole 'nother thread there too).

The other stopping smoking at about the 36 week mark. She was 10 days overdue and had a cone- bubs was born about 9 hours later. It had the effect of inducing labour for her.

Neither of the babies had any sign of withdrawals.

Would I do it, perosnally? Probably not. I hated the effect of peth during labour because it made me feel so stoned, so actually being stoned would probably not be helpful.

[Ballerina]

Totally agreed! There is heaps of toxic ingredients and carcinogens in every day foods and products.

But there is a reason why psychiatric wards are packed to the rafters with dope psychosis patients...and it ain't because they're using talc after their shower!! I would just want to be 100% sure that I wasn't contributing to that in any way, and I don't think there is enough conclusive studies to sway me just yet.

My lil bro is studying psychology @ uni, so if he makes it one day maybe he can do a study for me!!!

[Rouge]

But there is a reason why psychiatric wards are packed to the rafters with dope psychosis patients...and it ain't because they're using talc after their shower!!

True but you'll probably find the same problem with many over the counter drugs if they were used as often too But I do agree that more studies need to be done.

[Ballerina]

Oh I wouldn't argue with that - you're absolutely right love

[Ballerina]

And I just want to add - I'm certainly not lil Miss. Squeaky Clean and on some anti-drugs tirade!!!

I'm just throwing my weight around and asking some questions because I genuinely find it compelling

[Rouge]

Oh you duffa I didn't think that for a second... I'm not some drug pig either LOL!

[onthefly]

I think though. Ballerine, some of those patients would actually ahve been self-medicating themselves for existing problems (which perhaps the dope made worse).

I hadn't heard about the pot induction method before.... The most way-out one I came accross in my research was starvation. That's right - stop eating and your baby will come. Couldnt' manage it myself. Went a whole day without chocolate, but that wasn't quite enough.

I have used pot in the past as pain relief for my period. It was effective, but I don't like smoking.

[Ballerina]

And thanks Niliac for being sweet - group hugs people!

For sure Marcellus - concoctions of drugs can be a dangerous thing.

Without being too intimate I can give you two examples of people - exclusive cannabis users - that were institutionalized before they hit their 20's. Very sad indeed, and you know what? They weren't alone. This appeared to be the psych units largest demographic.

Now I'm not being preachy - this is something I know from seeing with my own eyes unfortunately. It's not meant to be a scare campaign, though my articulation may appear that way!!

We can all have a bit of a Cheech-and-Chong-esque giggle about how we handle illicits, but we need to know that some people can't and there is still a lot we don't know about how this translates to a baby at the height of their brain development.

Arimeh and Lulu have a key point here. There was nothing abnormal to report about a study group of Rastafarian women and their children. I surmise this could be because what they smoke is purer with a THC component that is milder.

My gut instinct has always been that it's THC we need to be concerned about. I haven't absorbed a whole lot of facts on this theory, but the first page of Google (which is as far as I got ) held an interesting study that may support this claim.

It does look like THC has benefits also. Hopefully future studies will isolate the good stuff so we don't have to have this conversation in 50+ years!

[Ballerina]

Oh woops - and here's the doc I was referring to (sorry I'm new to BB! lol):

More Evidence Of Cannabis-induced Psychosis

ScienceDaily (Apr. 19, 2005) ? Volunteers taking cannabis-based therapeutic drugs as part of a controlled trial, which had been approved by an ethics board as safe for the subjects, experienced psychotic effects just as strong as if they had smoked cannabis. These findings, highly unexpected in such a controlled environment, are published today in the peer-reviewed, Open Access journal BMC Psychiatry.

Dr Bernard Favrat and colleagues, from the Institut Universitaire de Medecine Legale in Switzerland, were conducting a clinical trial into the effects of orally administered delta-9-tetrahydrocannibol (THC), the active ingredient in cannabis, when two of their male subjects experienced impaired psychomotor functions and severe anxiety typical of cannabis-induced psychosis.

When smoking cannabis, the effects of THC on psychomotor functions usually start once the concentration in the blood has reached 10ng/ml plasma. The trial should have been safe as the subjects were given low doses of THC and had much lower concentrations in their blood. However the two male subjects experienced their reactions with blood concentrations of 4.7ng/ml and 6.2 ng/ml, respectively.

Favrat and colleagues found that both subjects reported severe anxiety and impaired psychomotor functions. Other effects included transient symptoms of derealisation and depersonalisation, and paranoid delusions. They were described by one subject as worse than those experienced after smoking cannabis. One subject was given dronabinol, a synthetic THC that has been in medical use in the USA since 1985. The other subject was asked to drink a decoction of natural THC. The authors hypothesise that the effect may have been because the THC had been ingested, rather than inhaled; digesting THC may produce potent THC metabolites, which induce psychotic effects.

Research into designing THC-based medications has boomed in the last few years, due to the many therapeutic effects of THC. These drugs could be used to alleviate muscle spasticity in multiple sclerosis patients, restore appetite in AIDS patients and alleviate pain and nausea in cancer patients undergoing chemotherapy. Such research has to be approved to ensure that it is treating patients ethically and safely. Dr Favrat's research had been approved, which makes the findings even more unexpected.

Favrat and colleagues' report adds to the body of evidence that cannabis might be more harmful than previously thought. In the UK, cannabis was downgraded to class C early last year, but government officials have called for a review of the decision following a series of studies revealing that cannabis dramatically increases the risk of developing mental illnesses.

###

This press release is based on the article:

Two cases of "cannabis acute psychosis" following the administration of oral cannabis. Bernard Favrat, Annick M?n?trey, Marc Augsburger, Laura E. Rothuizen, Monique Appenzeller, Thierry Buclin, Marie Pin, Patrice Mangin, Christian Giroud. BMC Psychiatry 2005, 5:17 (1st April 2005)