Registered User
just an little "unnecessary intervention" vent
Is it just me or are others saddened when you hear stories of pregnant women being interferred with by their OBs? Just today I overheard a woman at work talking about her impending second birth and she mentioned she was being induced a week early. Why? Because her last baby was big and this one might be too. SHE WAS ONLY 30 WEEKS ALONG! How the heck would they know the baby would be "too big" if she went full term??
vent over.
BellyBelly Life Subscriber
seems its happening all too often which is sad.
Registered User
I'm with you. It annoys the hell out of me. It's such a fear-based approach, and it is so disempowering for women.
♥ BellyBelly's Creator ♥
Oooooh yeah. I was so excited about opening the pregnancy centre and helping women with natural therapies but quickly I started to get down because day after day women would come in for natural inductions after threats for all sorts of reasons, big baby the main one... but its so frustrating and infuriating... I hear you, welcome to my working week LOL
Kelly xx
Creator of BellyBelly.com.au, doula, writer and mother of three amazing children
Registered User
i think i must be under one of the most anti-intervention Ob's in history - even given high BP, permanent tachycardia and a very stressed out mummy, he won't intervene at this point cos my cervix isn't favourable and he doesn't want to do anything to put us at more risk of c/s birth. i was peeved yesterday, but when i calmed down, i realised how unique this Ob is and i really do appreciate that he's not allowing MY fears to impact and lead to a medicalised birth. we do have an induction date if things don't happen naturally by then (due to BP and tachy) but he's not rushing things, hoping that nature takes it's course.
i know a lot of people have been frightened into intervention by Ob's at the other local hospital so i'll admit i chose the hospy i did (three times as far travel wise) to try to avoid this... stuff like "big babies" is (mostly) a big furphie...
i'm going to be getting Ap to help with natural induction if i can between now and the "last day" he'll let me go. will depend if my chiro/ap will do it though - he is another anti-intervention fella! i'm surrounded by them! lol
Registered User
BG it sounds like you are on a winner with your OB!
I mentioned this vent to DH and he is really pro-natural birth but he did make the point that the woman may have had an awful time last time so had reasons for wanting the intervention (which I acknowledge), so I know its a generalisation but gee can't you see her having a bad time this time round as well?
Registered User
I've just come to accept that's the way of life. And why I'm not even going for a scan should I get pg again, not go to the GP to confirm pregnancy, give birth alone at home... just to stop these idiots torturing me again.
BellyBelly Member
well she got the last one out didnt she...so whats the prob with a big baby anyway?
Registered User
If I can add to the vent! MY biggest peve is when people say
Something like "It's the last day he'll let me go??"
Like it's the OB's choice... I mean really they are not going to come to your home, pick you up, take you to hospital and stick gel on your privates!
Vocabulary like that insinuates that the parent/s dont have a CHOICE and that's why nothing will change! As how can one make change if we dont make ourselves accountable for the decisions WE made and the positions WE put ourselves into for that to be the outcomes. Dr's arn't out there roaming the streets cutting pregnant women open or inducing them.
NOW before I get millions of reply's jumping down my throat at those last comments let me finish...please....
I DO also work within this medical system that does EVERYTHING in its power to keep women as ill informed as possible. Yes there are some not nice Drs and Midwives out there (but that's the case in every profession) ! And we all agree that that is the case. BUT again if we can ALL identify this then it can NOT possibly be used as an excuse when we knew that already...
That's why I believe that SO MANY women have a better 2nd birth experience....as HOLLYE said...we grow some balls the 2nd time around...
So as I see it we need forums like this to help bring NATURAL birth back to the "norm" for 1st timers and support them to have enough strength in such a scary time to stand up for themselves and their babies!
Does everyone like me again or have I still offended people??
Last edited by MantaRay; May 23rd, 2009 at 04:10 PM. : chg colour - purple reserved for modding
Registered User
Tegam - i can understand what you're saying, but there still needs to be a limit put on how far past EDD people go. i have, and will continue, to accept that my OB has an endate that he won't let me "go past" - this is in the best interests of myself and my baby. i know this. my situation may not be considered normal for many reasons, but you can't tar everyone with the same brush. i'm not "uneducated" i'm not "blindly taking his word for it" - i know of my own medical issues, i know what CAN happen and i'm not prepared to tell my Ob to jam it and put myself and my Gremlin at risk simply so that i can feel "empowered".
provided you know what benefits and risks exist for every possible outcome (waiting, inducing, cs etc) you can make an educated decision as to whether to follow the advice handed to you by your Ob (or middie, GP whoever) or to discard it. i have chosen to follow my Ob's recommendations. so yes, i DO have a date he "won't let me go past" - and that isn't a bad thing!
please keep in mind that people with genuine health issues (which may not manifest in visible ways) which INCLUDE mental health issues (anxiety anyone?), having an endate in mind CAN actually help them relax enough about what is to come for spontaneous labour to occur. and making them feel blind or naive for taking that advice from their care provider doesn't help at all - just adds to the already rampant "what the hell is going on with my body/baby??" thoughts that are running through their head.
as to your comments that the medical profession does everything in it's power to keep women uninformed - i believe you'll find that the medical profession doesn't help to educate ANYONE - if you don't self-educate, you simply won't know. that is something we, as CONSUMERS of medical advice, need to change for ourselves - medical professionals don't necessarily have the time or resources to educate everyone - so we all have to take responsibility for educating ourselves.
i do agree that there are enough first time parents who are not given the "bigger picture" of birthing, the implications of induction/intervention vs natural birth to raise concern - but there needs to be more support for education, rather than just bagging the medical profession. child birth education needs to be more available in a non-confrontational situation for everyone - for far too many people, their only exposure is hospital run birthing classes - group sessions with dodgy old videos of people giving birth...
sorry - it may seem i'm being argumentative - but as a first time mother, sometimes reading threads of this nature make it feel like you're basically being accused of being uninformed simply because you have chosen to trust in your care provider! there needs to be a balance of education and acceptance. we all have a right to choose our mode of care and that should be respected. yes, stand up and make sure there is information out there to ensure people are educated as much as possible, but don't make people feel bad for making the choices they make simply because they don't equate to a "natural/normal" birth as it stands....
Registered User
BG, I hear where you're coming from, but......
The way I read Tegam's post was more that she was saying that it's the way it's worded, rather than the intention ITMS. As in, there's nothing wrong with having an end date, all pregnancies have to come to an end
I agree that for some (maybe most) having an end date is important, I really understand what you're saying. But I also agree with Tegam that the language we use is very powerful, and implying that a patient must blindly go along with their HCP must influence the thinking of alot of people.
I hope that doesn't come across as argumentative, I don't mean it to be! I agree with both of you, I just think BG that maybe you misunderstood what Tegam was trying to say.
Registered User
i understood the context - just wanted to jump in and remind people that words can can be very damaging. the statement "he won't let me go past" is something i myself have said - it's a statement. not an intention of fact. if i choose not to present at the hospital that day, so be it. but it's easier to say "he won't let me go past" than to say "he's going to look at induction that day, all things being equal, due to the fact that i have x y and z going on with my health and the doctor believes it to be in my best interests".
i am in something of an emotionally fragile state at the moment due to many things - the birth of our bubba being one of them - however, i'm still educating myself. i just want to be the voice of reason to remind people that not everyone reading a thread like this will have had the opportunity to educate themselves and some of the statements here having a dig at the medical professionals MIGHT be enough for people to start doubting the intentions of their doctor and, as a result, MAY have dire consequences.... just asking people to keep it in mind that's all. i know we, as in the general BB community, want for everyone to be as empowered and educated as they possibly can be - but we also have to be VERY careful of the language used. i have had dealings with everyone who has posted in here, so i know the context with which they post - a casual reader/non member may not and may take things in a very different context to what they are intended
Registered User
Obviously this would need to be on a case by case basis. My first two babes would have been induced on the current "limit" of 40+10.
I have 4 sisters and only 1 of us isnt a mum yet. So out of the 4 of us, half of us were induced on the first baby. It would have been 75%, but I refused to be induced. Thats a scary number. You can't honestly tell me that 75% of new mums are at risk of their baby dying in utero from carrying over.
Going back to that microcosm, one had a normal induction, the other ended up with epi, epi and forceps. Do I want to know how mine could have ended up? Would I have been the one wheeled to theatre?
The problem with putting a limit on past edd - like they have right now at 40+10, is its "one size fits all". Any limit needs to be designed on the individual circumstances of the woman presenting.
This is where education is key. Now as I said in my blog post - when it came to my DHs Carpel Release surgery, his doctor sat there for like an hour explaining the procedure and risks, as well as any alternatives. When UTD with Haz, I was told "You will be induced on the 21st" and that was it. So yes, they do educate - just not pregnant women.
Registered User
I think it is also important to note that there are Obs who do take the time to discuss and explain things with their patient. I felt very well-informed by mine and I know many others who have had similar, positive experiences with theirs. Education is key but suggesting all Obs are not to be trusted seems a little bit dangerous considering some people DO need the support of a specialist (and there are many who are brilliant) and should not feel that they are doing the wrong thing by consulting with one and taking on board what they suggest/advise/have to say.
Registered User
i guess so much comes down to what you accept as gospel. my ob said even with full blown GD he doesn't set an induction date until he can see signs that there is risk to the baby or parent - he scans at every appointment - refuses to look for "large" baby - he ONLY checks blood flow through the cord to ensure there is no reason to take action. yes, some OB's may work differently to this, but again, it comes down to education.
fortunately there IS a lot of information out there for pregnant women to access (in comparison to what you can access about something like carpel tunnel release surgery) - and so much of what you get from your doctor comes down to what you're prepared to ask. i don't walk out of any appointment without all my questions answered - it's something i refuse to do. but that's ME. i guess it comes back to society as a whole. if we (in general) want childbirth to be viewed as a natural and normal part of life, what need is there for you to be educated in detail by a medical professional?? there is a LOT of emphasis on ensuring Ob's are only involved in "abnormal" birth - that is their specialty. so it comes down to finding a balance of resources. why, if we want them ONLY involved in abnormal birthing situations, should they spend hours explaining to us what a "normal" birth involves.
having specialised surgery (ie carpal tunnel release) isn't an every day event. child birth is. IF society wants child birth to STOP being seen as a "medical" condition (which i agree with) society as a whole, also needs to take responsibility for normal education - if it's not a "medical" condition why should "medical" professionals and "medical" resources be used to educate people???
yes, i'm argumentative today (and i'm damn good at it) but i'm trying to make a point - you can't expect the medical community to step away from the birthing process and yet still invest time and resource into educating as to what is and isn't normal. you can't judge those that aren't educated on what is normal for believing in the medical professionals around them if the only option to get information is via that same medical professional! if you want to de-medicalise birth, you need to de-medicalise the education process! you can't do a half-assed job of it!
i will stand by my earlier statements that we need to be VERY careful how things are worded in a thread like this. yes, being told at 30 weeks that you'll need to be induced because you're likely to have a large baby again is a crock - however, we don't KNOW what the context of the conversation was. we dont KNOW how traumatic the initial birth was for the mother. was don't KNOW why the decision to induce early was made. yes, it's sad. but we don't KNOW and can't judge. the emotional and physical trauma of a large baby getting stuck and having to be ripped from it's mothers pelvis in a c/s can impact a mother forever. my SIL is, 7 years after this happened with her son, STILL traumatised by that birth. so yes, it's good to be educated, but being educated and STILL making a decision that goes against the grain doesn't mean you're making a mistake.
and again, from a first time mother perspective - it feels VERY judgemental when your choices to follow your Ob/GP/midwife are being called into question. we all have our own reasons for choosing our mode of care, our own reasons for putting our faith in these individuals etc. it's not nice to read comments that insinuate that you're "blindly" being led by a medico. no doubt there are people who have blind faith in their medico, but most of us are smart enough to question the comments and decisions at every appointment. i'm not "blindly" being led and the insinuation that i (or any other first timer) am is just offensive.
THIS is why i'm in here again - to try to ask people to show respect. just because our decisions aren't your decisions, just because our choices may mean we fall outside the realm of "normal" birth doesn't mean we're being led astray by our carers. they're OUR decisions and should be respected!
ETA - lulu - if you're going to quote me, please quote the WHOLE statement so that you get the FULL context of my statement. the statement i made was
if someone goes around reading the Ob bashing that seems to be happening in threads like this, they may decide just to ignore the advice WITHOUT educating themselves. if you're uneducated and blindly trust a forum of this sort, you MIGHT put yours or your childs life at risk. i'm quite sure those ladies who've had late onset and severe pre-eclampsia would kick themselves if they'd decided to ignore their Ob's advice to be induced (Hollye?) and something gone wrong for themselves or their baby. i'm sure, in the heat of the moment, some of those ladies HAD to have blind faith in their carers. what a horrible thought - to put your faith in the people that saved you and your child...i just want to be the voice of reason to remind people that not everyone reading a thread like this will have had the opportunity to educate themselves and some of the statements here having a dig at the medical professionals MIGHT be enough for people to start doubting the intentions of their doctor and, as a result, MAY have dire consequences....
Last edited by briggsy's girl; May 23rd, 2009 at 03:17 PM.
Registered User
In recent months I know of 3 ladies using the same very exclusive private hospital and ob. I made an observation ...All 3 were told that their bubs may be bigger, all 3 were induced at around 39wks, all inductions happened on a Sunday evening for a Monday delivery. This made we wonder if the Ob has golf or some thing on the other days of the week and likes to scedule his births.
BTW all bubs were under 3.8kgs!!!!
Registered User
I have to say I think I've been really blessed with my Ob as well. He is very anti intervention as well. Even given that my bub is in the 75 - 90% size wise he keeps telling me I'll be fine and he won't be inducing me unless he has to. He would much rather I go over and go into labour naturally. Even when my BP rose the other day he was like, "we might put you on blood pressure medication if it continues to stay up and then if that's not doing anything we may induce you!" and I was 39w1d at the time. So it's not like I've still got weeks to go. I'm glad that he's been so supportive and encouraging. It can be a rare thing in an Ob
Registered User
Mmmm, I think saying that your OB won't let you go past a certain day is not accurate in your case. Your OB doesn't reccommend that you go past this date and you have made a decision to follow his advice. This decision you have based on your own knowledge and the fact that you trust him. It's is not a decision he has made, it is a decision you have made. And I think that is what previous posters were referring to. Not that you should always go against your OB's reccommendation or that he shouldn't have an opinion in the first place, but that we as pregnant women need to make our own choices and own them.
Sasa
Reply With Quote
Bookmarks