Footling Breech ?

[~ Zarava Flutterby ~]

I was just wondering how common a footling breech birth was here on BB?

A friend i went to school with had her baby girl today and i have seen on her FB that her daughter was footling breech, i am unsure if the birth was natural or a c/s as yet.

According to wikipedia the frequency of a footling breech at term is about 3-4% (HERE), it's interesting to read that footling & kneeling breech are the more risky of the 4 breech presentations.

So yes just wondering how common it is amongst the wider BB community and if you did have a footling breech how did you labor?
Did you know baby was breech?

[~ Zarava Flutterby ~]

To answer my own Q.

DD1 was footling breech - vaginal birth, we did not know she was breech so it was a bit of a shock.
Quick labor, waters broke and she arrived 15min later.

My nan has had 2 breech babies and said both were faster than 'normal' birth.. not sure if this is just because of the way she labored or if breech are actually faster?

[Arcadia]

Interesting thread zf, I hope you get some experiences. I wonder if breech labors are faster because they're more risky? So your body knows to work quickly? Or maybe because it's the smaller parts getting out of the cervix first....?

[~ Zarava Flutterby ~]

Thx Hun, I find it interesting, the stats especially, they suggest breech presentation is higher in prem bubs than term.

DD1 was 38+5wks so basically term which is apparently a small %


Sent from my iPhone, more than likely while I should be doing something else!

[Amaunet]

Interesting thread my DS wasn't breech but I remember my Nana (now in her 80's) talking about delivering breech babies. To her it was just part of being a midwife and fairly "routine"

[emc2]

I was just wondering how common a footling breech birth was here on BB?

A friend i went to school with had her baby girl today and i have seen on her FB that her daughter was footling breech, i am unsure if the birth was natural or a c/s as yet.

According to wikipedia the frequency of a footling breech at term is about 3-4% (HERE), it's interesting to read that footling & kneeling breech are the more risky of the 4 breech presentations.

So yes just wondering how common it is amongst the wider BB community and if you did have a footling breech how did you labor?
Did you know baby was breech?

With the labour, I had a tiny drop of blood at 6am, then a bloody show at 9am.

I do have it written down somewhere but I had contractions 15 minutes apart from around about 10am ish to 11.30am.

I then went to the loo twice, and the second time, my waters broke, and I felt what I thought was a hand, but it was actually the tips of bubs toes.

Luckily I was at my parents house, and Mum called 000. I then was on all fours on the bed for 15 minutes, then the ambulance and paramedics arrived, I was then on all fours in the ambulance. At the hospital they tried to do an epidural, but I had a contraction so they went straight for a general anaesthetic. The caesarean was done a bit too quickly but they had to save us both.

To my knowledge the risk is if I hadn't tried to control the pushing and not push, what can happen apparently is the cervix may not open widely enough for the baby in some way. That was the last time I read something on the internet about it.

When my waters broke I felt a lot of pressure, because basically he put his foot through my cervix. But also in the ambulance they had to keep pushing his leg back in, so it would keep as much circulation going as possible.

No we didn't know he was breech, I'd had a quick ultrasound in March, and he was born in May. However my Mum, the baby's father, and myself, and I think maybe the baby's father's Mum - we were all breech births. I had asked a number of times if it was inheritable, and we were told that it wasn't.

[blessedatlast]

I was a footling breech bub.. Mum was induced at about 42wks, laboured for 7hrs middy (or OB) felt a kick while doing an internal and Mum was whisked off for a c section..

[AndiE]

My nephew was a footling breech - my sister's Ob didn't give her an option ... told her she had to have a c-section, which she did.

[RainbowBrite]

My DD3 was a footling breech.
My waters broke at 26+6weeks and I was fully effaced and 3cm dilated.
I went to the toilet at 28 weeks (in the hospital) and I felt a tickle just inside my vjayjay and felt five little toes.
They did a bedside u/s and her foot was definitely wedged straight down out through my cervix.
Things went very fast from there as I was rushed off for an emergency classical c/s
cord prolapse is the biggest concern with a footling breech and why they do like to do c/s

Sent from my iPad

[~ Zarava Flutterby ~]

Friend replied, bin born vaginally in hospital emergency as labor had progressed too far quickly, cord was wrapped around her neck but bub is fine
Will reply more from comp later


Sent from my iPhone, more than likely while I should be doing something else!

[OceanPrincess]

I was breech, bum presenting (don't know what that one is called??), Obs palpated mum's belly at 36wks and noted I was breech but said that I had plenty of time to turn so not to worry.

Few days later, mum went into labour early in the morning. Turned up at hosp and the Obs rushed in, did an internal, went "That's a bottom right there, and a foot, no time for c/s, baby is arriving now!"

Apparently I came out doing the splits somehow!

So yeah I was prem and arrived very quickly!

[Just Me]

DD2 was footling breech. She was my fastest labour - after 42 hours with DD1 and nearly 2 days in labour with DS1, I was nearly fully dilated after 45 mins and only a handful of contractions with DD2. I wouldn't have even been at the hospital except that I was meant to be having a c/section in the morning because she was breech and they wouldn't let me deliver her like that. I had to lie completely still while they got everything ready and told me if I moved, my waters would most likely break and they would give me a GA and get her out that way.

They gave me an injection in my stomach to stop my labour and performed an emergency c/section. She was wedged so far up in my ribs that I think it took a lot longer to get her out than planned. DH told me later the nurses were distracting me but he could hear what was going on and they were panicking that they couldn't pull her out. Her APGAR scores were quite low (I can't remember now what they were but I was shocked when I realised). I came up in massive bruises across my scar afterwards and I was in considerable pain - I think it is because they ripped all my muscles trying to pull her out.

The staff at the hospital have never been able to answer my question about why I was not allowed to birth her naturally. Through my own investigation I think it is because footling breech births carry a 20% risk of cord prolapse. And none of the staff are trained to deliver a footling baby - because they don't do it, none of them have experience with it. They told me that I would have been able to birth her naturally had she been bum first. They also don't try to manually turn footling babies because if your waters break, cord prolapse is also an issue. Bum first and they would have tried.

My labour came as quite a shock to me because the doctor told me the week before that due to her being breech, it was unlikely I would go into labour by myself and if I did, labour would not progress. It was my fastest labour ... and my most traumatic because of how it ended and not getting any answers.

I am still weary of the unknown though. I wish that someone who knew what they were talking about could talk to me about what happened rather than me having to google it all to get answers. But no-one can tell me if there really was any risk or if it was just hospital policy. It was pretty terrifying though. I don't understand the urgency of what happened.

I have a feeling if the operating theatre was busy that night, I would have had her naturally.

[mel_cur]

DD was a footling breech.

Waters broke at 35w+2weeks. Had some weird cramps which I thought were contractions. We knew DD was breech so went straight into hospital. Hooked me up to the monitors and there were no contractions even though I was having what i thought were contractions hooked up. Did an internal, found DD feet poking out!

Was raced down for an 'crash' c-section where the cord prolapsed just as we got there.

[emc2]

I just wanted to add, Jim still puts his legs and feet in a position very similar to the drawings of footling breech positions, one leg bent and the other one down.

[~ Zarava Flutterby ~]

Interesting thread my DS wasn't breech but I remember my Nana (now in her 80's) talking about delivering breech babies. To her it was just part of being a midwife and fairly "routine"

Amazing isn't it, my nan had 2 breech bubs both natural, it was just how it was done.
When we were discussing that the Dr's said if i had been in hosp it was an auto c/s she laughed and i said NO i'm serious, they do NOT deliver breech vaginally.
A MW told me that not even she would have known how to do it had i have been in hosp

No we didn't know he was breech, I'd had a quick ultrasound in March, and he was born in May. However my Mum, the baby's father, and myself, and I think maybe the baby's father's Mum - we were all breech births. I had asked a number of times if it was inheritable, and we were told that it wasn't.

We didn't know DD1 was breech either, according to the MW's she was engaged 3/4 but the MW with DD2 said she couldn't have been head first as she wouldn't have turned being that far down. Dad was breech...

I was a footling breech bub.. Mum was induced at about 42wks, laboured for 7hrs middy (or OB) felt a kick while doing an internal and Mum was whisked off for a c section..

So it was happening even then, i wonder where the 'rules' for laboring breech changed.

My nephew was a footling breech - my sister's Ob didn't give her an option ... told her she had to have a c-section, which she did.

Yeah i was told had i been there NO CHOICE aswell.

My DD3 was a footling breech.
My waters broke at 26+6weeks and I was fully effaced and 3cm dilated.
I went to the toilet at 28 weeks (in the hospital) and I felt a tickle just inside my vjayjay and felt five little toes.
They did a bedside u/s and her foot was definitely wedged straight down out through my cervix.
Things went very fast from there as I was rushed off for an emergency classical c/s
cord prolapse is the biggest concern with a footling breech and why they do like to do c/s

Sent from my iPad

I thought it was because of cord prolapse, someone else said there is more chance of the umbilical cord wrapping aswell

I was breech, bum presenting (don't know what that one is called??), Obs palpated mum's belly at 36wks and noted I was breech but said that I had plenty of time to turn so not to worry.

Few days later, mum went into labour early in the morning. Turned up at hosp and the Obs rushed in, did an internal, went "That's a bottom right there, and a foot, no time for c/s, baby is arriving now!"

Apparently I came out doing the splits somehow!

So yeah I was prem and arrived very quickly!

Butt first and you still turned otu ok only kidding hun.

The staff at the hospital have never been able to answer my question about why I was not allowed to birth her naturally. Through my own investigation I think it is because footling breech births carry a 20% risk of cord prolapse. And none of the staff are trained to deliver a footling baby - because they don't do it, none of them have experience with it. They told me that I would have been able to birth her naturally had she been bum first. They also don't try to manually turn footling babies because if your waters break, cord prolapse is also an issue. Bum first and they would have tried.

My labour came as quite a shock to me because the doctor told me the week before that due to her being breech, it was unlikely I would go into labour by myself and if I did, labour would not progress. It was my fastest labour ... and my most traumatic because of how it ended and not getting any answers.

I am still weary of the unknown though. I wish that someone who knew what they were talking about could talk to me about what happened rather than me having to google it all to get answers. But no-one can tell me if there really was any risk or if it was just hospital policy. It was pretty terrifying though. I don't understand the urgency of what happened.

I have a feeling if the operating theatre was busy that night, I would have had her naturally.

It sucks not knowing, i find it hard as so many people have told me i SHOULD have had a c/s, if i were in hospital i would have had no choice and that the risks are so so high we were lucky to both be alive.
But then in my head i think if it's so risky and the nurses are not even aware then how the hell did i manage ALONE on a bathroom floor with no medical intervention, shouldn't more be done to understand HOW to assist in a breech birth rather than just opting for a c/s every time?
Had i of known she was breech then chances are i would have taken the c/s, i would never have 'risked' her life or mine based on the many risks the OB's and MW's give you.. but really it comes down to lack of training and not wanting to be sued.

DD was a footling breech.

Waters broke at 35w+2weeks. Had some weird cramps which I thought were contractions. We knew DD was breech so went straight into hospital. Hooked me up to the monitors and there were no contractions even though I was having what i thought were contractions hooked up. Did an internal, found DD feet poking out!

Was raced down for an 'crash' c-section where the cord prolapsed just as we got there.

You guys are VERY lucky, so glad you were in hospital in time.. i understand there are REAL risks involved in breech and you were so lucky to be ok, it's amazing how different every experience is.

I just wanted to add, Jim still puts his legs and feet in a position very similar to the drawings of footling breech positions, one leg bent and the other one down.

DD1 was VERY wary of her feet when she was younger, hated people touching them, if anyone sat near them or pushed them at MG she FREAKED... mum always joked it was because of her birth, wonder if it is ???


Thanks so much for replying everyone, it's amazing to see stories of other footling breech bubs.

[emc2]

Thanks for starting this thread. It took me a few weeks to process what had actually happened. For myself I found the emergency care, and the caesarean, was good - I coped with that. It was the after care in the hospital, as Jim was born on a Saturday, that was difficult.

[~ Zarava Flutterby ~]

Funny you mention the car hun, i called my hosp 3 times the day DD1 was born and was still told to stay home (thus her being born there)
When i arrived via ambulance, babe in arms, i was told "we've written breech as that's what you've told us" uhh yeah i had feet hanging out of my vagina.. not somethign you make up.
The woman who stitched me up offered no pain relief and told me my legs were too long for the stirrups, so not only did i labor my baby alone on a bathroom floor but i got no pain relief while being stitched and was basically told i'm a giant (which i'm not)
They were extremely busy on the ward so we stayed in the birthing suite over night which was brilliant, all the nurses down there were amazing and very intrigued but on the ward.. OMG horrid, busy, frustrated and rude.

I never realised how bad the care had been until i was PG with DD2, i went through the same hospital but went to their panch clinic, the MW there was amazing, honest, caring and inquisitive.
She took the time to read right through DD1's birth notes, got me an extra scan to 'ease my mind as to breech presentation' swapped OB's after 1 told me they wanted to induce me at 38wks due to laboring too fast and explained quite a few things with breech and risks involved.
She also commented about a 'lie' on my notes from the day DD1 was born about coming into hospital the nurse had written i said i was fine to stay home.. umm i'd called 3 times and was asking YOU for advice...

I must say that although my care was ridiculous my birth was amazing, all risks aside, being alone aside i managed to birth my gorgeous girl drug free and she was healthy, i don't need any more understanding than that at this point.
I am intrigued by footling breech but i am at ease with our birth now, i guess i often wonder if i would be so 'at ease' with my care had i of been in hospital.. so another reason for asking ladies about their birthing a footling breech is to see that side of it too.

[Saffy]

Interesting thread!

Just to add that one of the biggest risks with breech birth, especially footling breech is that because the smaller parts are coming first ( the head being the biggest part), the baby may start coming out befor the cervix is fully dilated, and the head will be trapped because it can't fit through the undilated cervix, very dangerous needless to say, this is why footling breech would usually be a C/S.
If your baby was prem, it may be small enough to slip through an undialted cervix and also if you have a fast labour your cervix may dilate quickly, so there are reasons a baby may come out in good nick but as a general rule the risks of cord prolapse and the baby's head getting stuck mean all hospitals will C/S a footling breech.

Hope this adds to the knowledge.

Also, the 'rules' for breech birth changed about 10 yrs ago after a big randomised controlled trial in the UK ( i think), which came out in favour of elective C/S for breech, there have been many criticisms of this trial but its recommendations have been pretty much adopted around australia.
I know some Obs who will do breech birth depending on the circumstances.