thread: Boob politics.... Mia Freedman article. A must-read.

  1. #37
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    I agree with you, LC. I actually think hospitals would benefit from more pro-BFing involvement that delivers true education and true support instead of reactive policies. But I don't agree that any policy should be dismissed without seeing if there is a benefit in the long run. There is a learning curve, and trial and error involved in any new way of doing things. I guess, from the POV of someone involved with developing policy, sometimes you need to try something to see if it works, and I think that's what's happening here.

  2. #38
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    Mar 2010
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    I can see your point, but being someone who would actually have to work with that policy, well, you can usually tell policy's that are developed by people who don't actually work in the area for which the policy has been developed. If you wanted to reduce formula use for 'top up' feeding then make it be prescribed by a medical officer. They are harder to track down then another member of staff. My last place of work required a signed consent from the parents, my current employer only requires verbal consent, but no way would you give it without any consent.

  3. #39
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  4. #40
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    Personally, I absolutely hate the idea that if you want to breastfeed you absolutely can't give formula and to give formula with RUIN your chances of successfully breastfeeding.

    I think it's wrong and it adds to the stress when things are not going well.

    I'll share my examples.

    By the time DD1 was born I'd had seven hours sleep over three days. Whilst in hospital I wasn't managing more than three hours sleep per night. I was stressed out of my head and exhausted because I simply couldn't attach her reliably. I had all the help in the world. That help sometimes consisted of a midwife trying for 90 minutes each time to attach DD. She lost lots of weight and I was advised to give formula. I refused (because I'd fallen for the line that if you give one bottle, you're doomed). She lost more weight, finally I agreed. I got home and still could not attach her reliably. I spent all day in bed with her. My milk did not come in until Day 7.

    I decided that rather than feel like a failure at each feed I would express instead. We did that for two months. I tried to attach her after a couple of months. She did it easily but I stupidly thought that there was no way we would be able to breastfeed because I'd fallen for the propaganda that a bottle-fed baby will have nipple confusion and never go back.

    Virtually the same thing happened with DD2 except I had a planned caesarean, was much more chilled-out and my milk came in on Day 3. Again, with all the help in the world from the midwives, we had problems attaching. I saw a lactation consultant twice when I got home. Still no luck. I tried eight times per day for three weeks and could maybe attach her once every two days. I expressed and gave formula. After three weeks, I decided that enough was enough and stopped trying to attach and stopped expressing.

    At about seven weeks, I came across something on the web that made me think. Apparently I have huge nipples that will make it difficult for my babies to attach. None of the dozens of midwives I saw OR the LC I saw mentioned this. So despite having no milk, I tried to attach DD at seven weeks just for the hell of it. Easy.

    So despite the fact that she'd been bottle fed from birth and I had no milk, we relactated. The dozens of bottles she had made absolutely no difference. She took to the nipplelike a duck to water. To relactate I expressed every hour for a couple of weeks, took Motilium and the other herbal thing by the bucketload. We used a supply line too. We did that for four months.

    SO my point again is that I find the suggestion that giving formula here and there will doom the breastfeeding relationship dangerous and extremely patronising. I think women are told this because they somehow can't be trusted to keep breastfeeding and will give up too easily. Whereas the reality is that it may give them some respite when they are stressed to the max and give them the strength to fight another day.

  5. #41
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    Feb 2008
    Gold Coast, QLD
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    I have so much to say I'm almost bursting, but I'm not going to say it all, just touch on the surface.

    I just want to refer to the bit about the paed saying she should top up for the first 24 hours until her milk came in.

    OK, firstly all babies lose weight after birth. If not all, vast majority.

    Secondly, her milk might not come in after 24 hours and her baby may lose more weight before it starts gaining.

    Topping up with formula starves the breasts from being given the message from the hungry baby to produce milk asap. It would possibly further delay milk production.

    If the hospital really cared they should sit with this distraught new mother and help her understand.

    That's what's missing in all this talk about breastfeeding. Yes, we get the message breast is best but we are crippled by ignorance and uncertainty, and then the damn medical professionals like this paediatrician give damaging advice and this poor woman (and so so many women like her) doesn't stand a chance.


    Edit: I want to add that with both my babies my milk didn't come in until day 5, when I was home from hospital. My dd lost more weight than the supposed acceptable amount, but she was my 2nd baby and I knew this time so I didn't pay it any attention. I didn't know the first time and all that damned advice from professionals ruined everything.
    Last edited by SunnyRain; February 26th, 2012 at 09:00 PM.

  6. #42
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    Jan 2010
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    I absolutely agree, Fionas. My DD2 has been comp fed formula from about 10 days of age and has absolutely no issues switching from bottle to breast. She has always easily managed both.

    I attempted to BF DD1 but I also believed that once I started FF she would suffer 'nipple confusion' and we were doomed. I gave up because the message I received loud and clear was that once you gave a bottle you were on a slippery slope to full time FF. There was - and still is - no support for women like myself who BF but have to comp feed with formula.

    To anyone reading and wondering, I have had breast reduction surgery - twice. I simply do not produce enough milk to solely BF my children, and not all of my ducts are patent.

  7. #43
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    Aug 2010
    Albs, WA
    971

    I have so much to say I'm almost bursting, but I'm not going to say it all, just touch on the surface.

    I just want to refer to the bit about the paed saying she should top up for the first 24 hours until her milk came in.

    OK, firstly all babies lose weight after birth. If not all, vast majority.

    Secondly, her milk might not come in after 24 hours and her baby may lose more weight before it starts gaining.

    Topping up with formula starves the breasts from being given the message from the hungry baby to produce milk asap. It would possibly further delay milk production.

    If the hospital really cared they should sit with this distraught new mother and help her understand.

    That's what's missing in all this talk about breastfeeding. Yes, we get the message breast is best but we are crippled by ignorance and uncertainty, and then the damn medical professionals like this paediatrician give damaging advice and this poor woman (and so so many women like her) doesn't stand a chance.


    Edit: I want to add that with both my babies my milk didn't come in until day 5, when I was home from hospital. My dd lost more weight than the supposed acceptable amount, but she was my 2nd baby and I knew this time so I didn't pay it any attention. I didn't know the first time and all that damned advice from professionals ruined everything.
    Well said.
    I personally have a condition which impairs lactation, and will probably never exclusively BF my children. This time Im expressing and freezing, so I have some stores this time, and wont end up with a sick bubba again.
    I wasnt offered formula in hospital until DD had lost 15% of her body weight, and I still didnt even have colostrum, let alone any milk (we were in 2 weeks, colostrum came day 7, milk day 10, but Ive always had low supply). I think if I hadnt have had as much support (and been stubborn) that Id have switched at birth.
    This time I have loads of support, and have contacted the ABA (who Ive found very supportive of mixed feeding) and Im havent bought any formula, as Im trying to exclusively BF (though I will of course if bub loses a serious amount of weight or is FTT)

  8. #44
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    Mar 2008
    the world
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    Just had another look at the article and am not liking the bit about 'The midwife wasn't a hardcore lactivist and thank god most of them aren't' If it is good that midwives do not believe in breastfeeding then who will?? Biologically breastfeeding is the natural progression from giving birth and assisting in giving birth and looking after newborns is what midwives do! Where does this woman think the support for breastfeeding is supposed to come from!?? When did lactivist become a dirty word?

  9. #45
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    Jul 2006
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    This probably won't be a surprise to many, but other than the bit about fb I really don't agree with the article. I think when Mia refers to "breast feeding association" she's a little confused, she seems to be using it interchangeably about at least 2 organisations. And the ABA that she might be referring to at times is not anti-formula. It's pro-mums and pro-families, and yes, pro-breastfeeding. They support ff mums also - they offer all sorts of support but not specific information about formula brands or amounts as this is the job of health professionals and counsellors are not trained in it.

    I have had a child fed formula in hospital without my consent or knowledge. Totally un-necessarily. I have also successfully bf a baby who was unable to attach for the first 3 weeks without a nipple shield, and I'm very grateful that i had midwives try to help me with bfing instead of giving him formula. I wonder if the mum Mia refers to in the article, or Mia, are actually aware that breastmilk is the best thing for jaundice, and that sadly many doctors are not even aware of that fact. I wonder if that would change Mia's view. I have come across a number of mums who are distraught that they are no longer able to bf because they've been given bad information and no support to keep bfing. Many of these mums are grateful that there is a "breast feeding association" who can help mums to continue feeding if they want to, or just to listen to them when they need to talk.

    Being pro anything does not make you anti something else. The fact that a group of volunteers devoting their time to help other mums can cause such negative feelings really astounds me. The fact that midwives, or any other health professionals, might want to give a mum and bub the best chance of bfing, something mums have been doing since the beginning of time and which many actually desperately want to do, is a good thing. The real problem is that too many do not know enough about bfing to support mums. Doctors with 4 hours of bfing training, child health nurses attending seminars and workshops run by formula companies, that is what is taking away mums' choices.

  10. #46
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    Jan 2010
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    Being pro anything does not make you anti something else.
    I love this! I think the problem is that many mum's who do FF feel that they are viewed poorly by those who are passionate about BF.

  11. #47
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    Oct 2009
    Bonbeach, Melbourne
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    This probably won't be a surprise to many, but other than the bit about fb I really don't agree with the article. I think when Mia refers to "breast feeding association" she's a little confused, she seems to be using it interchangeably about at least 2 organisations. And the ABA that she might be referring to at times is not anti-formula. It's pro-mums and pro-families, and yes, pro-breastfeeding. They support ff mums also - they offer all sorts of support but not specific information about formula brands or amounts as this is the job of health professionals and counsellors are not trained in it.

    I have had a child fed formula in hospital without my consent or knowledge. Totally un-necessarily. I have also successfully bf a baby who was unable to attach for the first 3 weeks without a nipple shield, and I'm very grateful that i had midwives try to help me with bfing instead of giving him formula. I wonder if the mum Mia refers to in the article, or Mia, are actually aware that breastmilk is the best thing for jaundice, and that sadly many doctors are not even aware of that fact. I wonder if that would change Mia's view. I have come across a number of mums who are distraught that they are no longer able to bf because they've been given bad information and no support to keep bfing. Many of these mums are grateful that there is a "breast feeding association" who can help mums to continue feeding if they want to, or just to listen to them when they need to talk.

    Being pro anything does not make you anti something else. The fact that a group of volunteers devoting their time to help other mums can cause such negative feelings really astounds me. The fact that midwives, or any other health professionals, might want to give a mum and bub the best chance of bfing, something mums have been doing since the beginning of time and which many actually desperately want to do, is a good thing. The real problem is that too many do not know enough about bfing to support mums. Doctors with 4 hours of bfing training, child health nurses attending seminars and workshops run by formula companies, that is what is taking away mums' choices.
    So well put

    From my own experience, I could easily have been a woman who could 'not' breastfeed based on inadequate support and lack of accurate information. Despite a great birth, my milk didn't come in until day 6. That in itself is enough to shake a new mothers confidence. On top of that, DD had a few (at that time) undiagnosed jaw and spine issues, and over two or three days after birth, stopped attaching. So that was another blow. I started hand expressing onto a spoon for her. Because I had great support from my midwives, doula and BB, I knew that DD's tummy was so tiny that this would be enough for her. Then, I hand expressed into a cup, then finally got my hands on a pump and cup fed her for about two weeks. Each feed I'd try to attach her to the breast with zero success. This was extremely demoralising. But, with all my support behind me, I kept going. For a few days we used a bottle, and then at about two weeks old she attached with a nipple shield. I fed DD with zero issues with the nipple shield until 5 months, when she attached without it out of the blue one day. All through my BF journey so far, support and correct information is what got me through. My ability to breastfeed was never once undermined by somebody 'well meaningly' suggesting I try her on some formula. If my confidence was shaken, the ABA was just a phone call away, or a friend, or my doula. When I moved out from DH at 3 weeks PP, I struggled alone. When we broke up again a few months ago, my milk all but dried up. I am so grateful for the support and information I was provided with. I'm so glad I was never once told to top up, switch over or supplement based on misinformation. At 8 months, breastfeeding is going strong. I absolutely cannot attribute this solely to my own efforts. It's been a team effort the whole way, and my team never let me down.

  12. #48
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    Jan 2012
    WA
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    Tara Moss has posted a rather brilliant (IMO) email she sent to Mia

    Firstly, congratulations on your ongoing role as one of the leading voices of women in Australia, and on your ability to bring important women’s issues into the public eye. I have read many of your articles published at Mamamia.com.au and in the weekend newspapers, and of course we have met and communicated numerous times over the years. Yesterday I came across your piece titled ‘Time to get a grasp on reality and stop making colossal boobs of ourselves over breast politics’ and I felt I should contact you to address some important issues.

    I am unaware of any ‘Breast Feeding Association’ that gives accreditation to hospitals, as mentioned in your article. There is a volunteer group called the Australian Breastfeeding Assoc that provides breastfeeding classes and a 24 hour hotline (1800 mum 2 mum) to help women with breastfeeding problems, with the phone lines manned - ‘womaned’ actually - by volunteers who have earned qualifications to help women struggling with breastfeeding related issues, milk supply, attachment problems, etc. They generously provide a free and helpful service but do not provide accreditation to hospitals. The Baby Friendly Health Initiative, or BFHI (previously named the Baby Friendly Hospital Initiative), developed by the World Health Organisation and UNICEF in 1991 and implemented in over 150 countries worldwide, does provide accreditation for hospitals globally. I think this may be the program you are referring to in your article, and as I am patron for BFHI in Australia I thought I should address some of the issues you raised.

    The Baby Friendly Health Initiative, and their ‘10 Steps To Successful Breastfeeding’ have been very successful in raising breastfeeding rates in countries with Baby Friendly accredited hospitals. To give one example, after only two years of BFHI implementation in China exclusive breastfeeding rates in that country doubled in rural areas and increased from 10 per cent to 47 per cent in urban areas. Currently, Australia’s exclusive breastfeeding rate at the medically recommended six month mark is 14% - less than half the world average. Governments around the world, medical professionals and organisations like WHO and UNICEF are actively trying to raise breastfeeding rates and in particular exclusive breastfeeding rates during the crucial first six months because of significant health implications for mothers and babies. The focus on exclusive feeding is due to a wealth of evidence showing health risks associated with formula feeding and mixed feeding. Beyond the long-term outcomes like higher rates of infection, disease and obesity associated with formula feeding, unlike breast milk suckled directly from the breast, formula is not sterile. Equally, bottles and teats are not sterile, and making these items medically sterile can be costly in hospitals, using specialised equipment, and parents can only ever have limited success in making them sterile at home. As human beings we are all imperfect, and as a result, the preparation of formula can be flawed and babies can and do get very sick. The latest research shows that an estimated 53 per cent of diarrhoea hospitalisations could be prevented each month by exclusive breastfeeding, breastfed babies have 15 per cent fewer doctor visits in the first six months, and in developing countries where sterilisation techniques are arguably poorest, use of bottles and formula cause an estimated 1.4 million deaths in children under five. These are some of the reasons why BFHI accredited hospitals aim only to introduce bottles to babies (including expressed breast milk in bottles) when medically necessary.

    Until such practices were widely banned, many hospitals gave out free packs of formula to new mothers, and had formula tins and formula advertisements displayed within maternity wards, where new mothers are most vulnerable. Unsurprisingly, this resulted in significantly lower breastfeeding rates and higher rates of formula use. (To give an example of how much sway advertising can have on a culture, formula is reportedly one of the top 3 consumer commodities and one of the top imports in the Philippines, where there is currently no ban on the advertising of formula for babies, and sales amount to nearly half a billion US dollars annually despite much of the country living in poverty.) It is for these reasons that formula is not displayed in BFHI accredited hospitals, however it can be readily accessed for medical reasons or if the mother wishes. The introduction of bottles is not taken lightly because of the increased health risks for babies and the potential hurdles it can create for mothers who wish to breastfeed, including ‘nipple confusion’ and attachment problems in newborns, and lowered milk supply in mothers. Breastfeeding is not always easy in the early days or weeks and the last thing we need is any hospital policy that makes it yet harder to breastfeed. For many of the same reasons, nipple substitutes, such as pacifiers, are not encouraged in BFHI accredited hospitals either. It is important to mention that although BFHI accredited hospitals have policies in place to support breastfeeding, they also have policies in place to support women who chose not to breastfeed or can’t breastfeed for medical reasons. That does not extend to actively promoting or displaying artificial nipples or breast milk substitutes. As you wrote in your article ‘formula was never displayed anywhere – it was hidden – and neither were bottles of ANY KIND EVER’. Indeed. Why should formula be displayed in maternity wards? We see aisles of it in supermarkets.


    You mentioned in your article that you have breastfed three children and you wrote your piece from the perspective of someone who has loved and hated breastfeeding. Amen. I am writing this as a mother of one who introduced my daughter to formula at only two days of age, on doctor’s recommendations, and fed her formula ‘top-ups’ for six weeks before breastfeeding exclusively. (After some hurdles at the start, we are still going strong with breastfeeding). I do not view my formula use as a personal failure or a source of guilt, and nor should anyone else.

    But more importantly, I am writing this not just as a mum, an individual, but as patron of the BFHI program, and in this volunteer role it is my job to pass on evidence-based information on this topic, quite beyond my very small sample size or personal anecdotes. It is because of decades of exhaustive research conducted around the world by scientists and health professionals that I can confidently say that the perceived injustice of an objectionable facial expression from a midwife, or the need for midwives to sign off on formula to feed a newborn, in the case of your friend’s experience, is a small inconvenience for a policy that provides significant improvement in health outcomes for babies and mums, eases the burden on our health system and in some cases even saves lives.

    BFHI hospital accreditation exists only to support the health and wellbeing of women and children, to reduce infections and to save lives. Guilt-trips and ‘breast politics’ have nothing to do with it. I encourage any expecting mother to chose a BFHI accredited hospital. I know I will.

  13. #49
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    Oh yeah, go Tara!


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

  14. #50
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    Jul 2011
    41

    Love tara's response. I thought that Mia's article was very poor and full of factual errors. Certainly women need to support each other but pretending that formula has no health risks and attacking 'lactavists' supports no one

  15. #51
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    Jan 2009
    In my own little fantasy world
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    Great article. I don't often agree with MF but I do this time. Except for this bit:

    They're not dangerous weapons that must be hidden from vulnerable onlookers, half of whom have a pair of their own.
    It should be rephrased to "more than half" as there are plenty of men out there with a sizeable pair of boobs

  16. #52
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    Oct 2009
    Bonbeach, Melbourne
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    Oh Tara Moss. Now that's a must read

  17. #53
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    Tara!

  18. #54
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    aah! Thank you Tara Moss! (standing ovation!)

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