Hmmm what do you think? Rabbi Shmuley and bfing

[ezymay]

Firstly I wasn't really sure where to put this!? It could go in relationships or breastfeeding!

I just saw this on Elizabeth Pantley's face book page. She was up in arms about
it.
Welcome to Facebook | Facebook

Can Breast-Feeding Hurt Your Marriage? Rabbi Shmuley Boteach Thinks So in His New Book, 'Kosher Adultery'- Beliefnet.com
(Mods I hope the links are ok)

So I don't know a lot about Rabbi Shmuley except he has a show on foxtel that I've only ever seen ads for and this really dissapoints me. Having a child can effect your marriage period! It doesn't have to be breast feeding that effects intamicy in a marriage. I don't feel feeding (or Expressing in my case) meant I put my husband second. Yes my DD was my first priority but I think, especially in the first year that's how it should be but that didn't mean my DH was not really really important also.

It saddens me this sentiment is still out there.

ETA this article is from 2006 so not new. Just thought Id add that and apparently after a huge amount of backlash he wrote another reponse. Will try and find that.

[willow5]

I personally think that if breast feeding is hurting your marriage, you're probably in the wrong relationship! ...I haven't read the article you're referring to though, I will have a read, but that is my first thought!

[Jennifer13]

Well, in that article he also attacks co-sleeping, so I'm guessing he doesn't have a lot attachment parents as fans.

[Glamourcide]

The article itself, and the vast majority of the logic he puts forward, is just ridiculous. That being said though, I can see what he's getting at right down at the core - that men are really just big fat babies and often feel neglected when a new baby arrives because mum shifts her focus from husband to child. I agree with that, but tbh, that's the husband's problem to work through and blaming the child or a nursing relationship (or co-sleeping, or the mother for 'making' a husband witness a vaginal delivery etc) doesn't solve a thing, but shifts resentment and insecurities from one person to another.

FWIW I agree with all of you - caring for our children IS and SHOULD ALWAYS BE our first and foremost priority. But I see *some* relationships where poor dad's been relegated to status of 'money-making sperm donor' and mum puts every ounce of everything she has into her kids, and poor dad gets nada. Which I think is a shame, and maybe says something about the relationship not being perfect long before kids came along and 'ruined' it all, kwim? Marriages do take a lot of work, and I think Shmuley probably had the right idea at heart, but it got lost along the way amongst his anti-BFing argument Love your partners, too, ladies!! After all, they were the ones who provided half the resources to create the gorgeous kid(s) you invest so much in

[Marlene]

I personally think that if breast feeding is hurting your marriage, you're probably in the wrong relationship!

I think Willow's comment sums up the whole topic! Take that Shmuley!!!!

[HotI]

I am surprised that when scientists discuss all the benefits of breast-feeding, they neglect its most negative consequence. If breast-feeding gets in the way of the marriage—if it means that a husband and wife never go out on dates, or that the mother is so tired from always waking up with the baby that she has no energy to ever be intimate with her husband—the child will probably end up worse off, however many colds or bouts with diarrhea he now avoids.

This would happen whether you breastfeed or bottlefeed, you would be up for longer if you also had to prepare a bottle.

In the end, there are two effects of breast-feeding that we often refuse to acknowledge. One is the de-eroticization of a woman's body, as her husband witnesses one of the most attractive parts of her body serving a utilitarian rather than romantic purpose. This is not to say that breast-feeding isn't sexy. Indeed, the maternal dimension is a central part of womanliness. But public breast-feeding is profoundly de-eroticizing, and I believe that wives should cover up, even when they nurse their babies in their husband's presence.

Is he serious? A number of my friends have talked about their partners helping them in the early days to get the right attachment, and how couples can be brought together thinking how cool it is that a woman can make stuff to feed their baby, and how proud they both can be.

[willow5]

OM*G ok I just read the article and I'm sorry but Rabbi Shmuley IMHO is a TOOL!

With comments like "In the end, there are two effects of breast-feeding that we often refuse to acknowledge. One is the de-eroticization of a woman's body, as her husband witnesses one of the most attractive parts of her body serving a utilitarian rather than romantic purpose."

And

"This is not to say that breast-feeding should not be practiced. It is instead to say that it should always remain subordinate to the romantic and passionate needs of a marriage."

Ah..NO, I'm sorry but my baby's nutritional needs are definitely first.

And another of many

"Let me be clear. I agree that breast-feeding is usually the best thing for a baby. But the principal form of marital breakdown in our time is a loss of erotic desire between husband and wife, and if couples find that breast-feeding is adding to a sense of alienation, there is always the bottle."

If a man has issue and feels alienated by his wife using her breasts to feed their baby, which I'm pretty sure is what they are there for, then I think he probably needs to seek help for his insecurities, which are actually the problem in a relationship like this, not breast feeding.

Grrr! Sadly people probably listen to this man and take his advice. I think he has some "issues" of his own that need some attention.

[ezymay]

I wonder if his wife breastfed? (I think he has a wife and kids?) There was a great reply on Elizabeth's page quoting all sorts of Jewish documentation where breastfeeding is mentioned and encouraged. I still haven't found his second artcile but really how much back pedalling can he do after that?!

[Kazmar]

rofl! Why is dumb s*** like this even published! If your marriage is failing.....its NOT bf! And if your DH blames the bf, leave the fool!

[Jennifer13]

One is the de-eroticization of a woman's body, as her husband witnesses one of the most attractive parts of her body serving a utilitarian rather than romantic purpose.

Ummmm... does this mean a wife and husband should never go to the toilet in front of each other either? Or should her husband not be at the birth, since I'm guessing vaginal birth is somewhat less than romantic to watch. *GASP* How will he ever want to have sex with her again???!

[willow5]

Ummmm... does this mean a wife and husband should never go to the toilet in front of each other either? Or should her husband not be at the birth, since I'm guessing vaginal birth is somewhat less than romantic to watch. *GASP* How will he ever want to have sex with her again???!

Yes Jennifer13, he recommended that husbands not see the birth, well not the vagina at least, same thing, not erotic

[Kazmar]

Aw so our bodies are just here to please a man, sexually! What a freak!

What about those men, dare I say it, who like anal???? bahahahaha Clearly most men dont think to much about it lol

[Phteven]

Ummmm... does this mean a wife and husband should never go to the toilet in front of each other either?

Breastfeeding and the Rabbi aside I prefer a closed door. That's just me

[Tuesday's Child]

This is the response Rabbi Shmuley wrote to the backlash he received.

Rabbi Shmuley - Articles

[Indadhanu]

Furthermore, I said, her obsession had turned one of her most attractive body parts into a feeding station, an attractive cafeteria rather than a scintillating piece of flesh.

So I read to about here, and decided that whatever he has to say is pretty much wasted space in my brain.

[Shanti]

So I read to about here, and decided that whatever he has to say is pretty much wasted space in my brain.

yep I agree.... and I haven't even read his whole article LOL he seems like a narrow-minded loser to me.

[briggsy's girl]

But in his defense, and i'm not saying don't b/f, be it about everything in your marriage, there is some truth in what he was trying to allude to - there is something about putting ourselves out there and working on giving to the other (and they should give to you and not think about themselves in return, nothing about only females), and that keeping your marriage/partnership strong during those difficult first years of a babies life when you are just oh so tired constantly is important. If you focus solely on your baby, or use looking after your baby (or your job) as an excuse to neglect working on your marriage, in the end it won't be great for everyone.

Marriage isn't easy and it takes constant work (as i continually find out!)

this is very true - and if the Rabbi had used his position to say this without alienating everyone, he might have actually had some valid points

i agree that you need to work hard at keeping your relationship on track - but the basis of your relationship NEEDS to be about more than the physical - if it's not, then your relationship is bound to fail when life - be it children, age, illness or other stress - catches up with you.

FWIW, i told DH about this article - he rolled his eyes, said some "not so kind" things about the author, and said anyone who thinks that bf or childbirth makes their partner less attractive they have issues

[Manhattan]

I was thinking about this article yesterday, and wondering what DH's thoughts on this issue would be. He has never said anything bad about b/f, and like someone mentioned, he was helping me attach DD in the beginning when I was struggling.

So I asked him flat out 'What do u think of me b/f?' He replies 'I dont know, its natural'. So then I ask 'Does it turn you off me?' Replies 'No, you're a mum. Why are you asking all of these questions?' So I tell him there was an article written that basically says b/f can ruin marriages. And his reply 'Not ours'. Awww, take that Rabbi Shmuley. And that is coming from a mans man too!