I have wondered for a long time *not a debate*

**Persephone1** · November 2nd, 2010, 09:15 AM

I'm not sure when the "non-debate" became a debate or why "smartness" came into it

I don't even know where to start with that.

There is little/no funding for BM Banks from the govt and I think the redtape is tough. That's in answer to the OP.

**boomba** · November 2nd, 2010, 09:20 AM

Km we are not talking about smartness or the differences in formula its more about having access to human milk for human babies and why there are not more banks around and more education on the subject! Babies grow and learn at different rates thats why it is best not to compare

im with you audax....we will quite happily drink cows/goats milk from an animal that can probably lick its self be sprayed or dipped in who knows how many chemicals...yet the thought of hman breastmilk which is designed for human babies and is screened and pasturised etc is thought as gross? I wonder where along the line we decided our bodies couldnt work as well as they used to?

**meow** · November 2nd, 2010, 09:28 AM

When I had low supply while establishing BFing with my son I would have given my right arm to to supplement his feeds with donated milk rather than the small amount of formula he had for a couple of weeks. It killed me to give him that, and I'm still aware to this day that the development of digestive system was compromised as a result.

I'm more aware now of communities that assist donating EBM among each other and I'm prepared to yell out and seek this help as much as possible this time around, should complementary feeding become needed.

**Shanti** · November 2nd, 2010, 11:37 AM

When I had low supply while establishing BFing with my son I would have given my right arm to to supplement his feeds with donated milk rather than the small amount of formula he had for a couple of weeks. It killed me to give him that, and I'm still aware to this day that the development of digestive system was compromised as a result.

I'm more aware now of communities that assist donating EBM among each other and I'm prepared to yell out and seek this help as much as possible this time around, should complementary feeding become needed.

well said Meow. That's exactly how I feel too. My DD was supplemented with FF when BF'ing was difficult for us at one stage and I had hardly much milk and she was losing weight, and under advice by an LC, we had to take drastic measures to get fluids to her and I had no time to wait around for someone else's BM. Had it been available to me at the time, and screened, I would have given it to my DD in a heartbeat

You can't beat BM. Even if it is from someone else, it's still going to be better for your baby than Artificial Baby Milk could EVER be.

**Trillian** · November 2nd, 2010, 10:52 AM

For me, it isn't about BM v ABM (I see that as a completely separate issue), it is about the very real risk of women being exploited for their milk. Just where do all of those who support the use of BM in place of ABM think all the milk required is going to come from? Do you have any idea of how many women it would take to fill the gap of formula? And how will these women be compensated for it, if at all? And they would have to be compensated in some form because how is it right that women wouldn't get anything for doing it yet the ones that are selling it make all the money kwim. It's a wonderful idea in theory, but it is a rather Utopian one that will never fly. Besides, how long do you think it will take Nestle and Wyeth etc to try to get in on it? Afterall, they are the ones who will lose billions of $$ if it ever happened and they will want a slice of the action considering how large the baby food market it. And if that happens, well we may as well be back where we started from. I fully support 100% the use of milk banks for ill and prem babies, but for the wider population of babies it just wouldn't work.

**HotI** · November 2nd, 2010, 10:59 AM

:yeahthat:

Great post

**MrsFabuloso** · November 2nd, 2010, 02:01 PM

I would use donated BM if it were as viable and easy an option as using formula is. I would love to be able to say my babies were fully solely fed on BM. But I doubt it ever would be an option. I don't find it disturbing or horrible or offputting in the least. It is what it is, feeding your baby. Just like feeding a baby formula IMO. Doing either things carries risks. Albeit differnt risks, but risks all the same. If I took milk from a milk bank it would have to meet all health standards. But I would also be willing to use a wet nurse if someone I knew and trusted were to offer up their boobies (such as a best friend/sister/cousin...)!!
But taking into consideration the amount of women who do breastfeed (vs formula feed) I don't think there would be enough milk to go around for all of those bubs! And as Tanstar points out many women have trouble expressing for their own bubs, let alone on mass scales. I could only ever express at most about 100ml of milk at a time, on a good day. If I needed a whole bottle (200ish mls) or god forbid more than one bottle to go to work or out, DS was supplemented with formula because I just couldn't get enough. Plus there is the time factor, it used to take me a good 20ish mins to get 100ml or less. I am aware it takes different women different amounts of time to get more or less milk out, but realistically would many mums have the time and energy to spare? It would take alot of dedication from a mother to do it. Personally I don't think I would have the energy or dedication to do it myself, despite the fact that it would be such a great gift to someone elses bub. I would however quite happily feed someone else bub if they wanted me to and I knew them well enough to do it. But tha's a whole seperate issue!!

**trishalishous** · November 2nd, 2010, 02:42 PM

my phone ate my reply!
excellent info Boomba.
I haven't read the whole thread but I personally who have no problem either donating or receiving BM, or wetnursing.
after a traumatic birth I've had huge supply issues. being able to give BM rather than formula would have helped my menta state so much!

**Kazmar** · November 2nd, 2010, 03:39 PM

Sorry ladies I have been out all day but just going through the thread now

**Fleur** · November 2nd, 2010, 05:28 PM

hmmm, sorry but I found that abit aggressive. Breastmilk is a body fluid and the drinking of other peoples body fluid such as breastmilk, urine etc does not sit comfortably with some people.

I don't go out to my backyard, kneel beneath a cow and suck on it's teat...I do, however, drink cows milk that has been pasturized to remove as many microbials as possible. When they can find an appropriate way of removing contaminates out of breastmilk (which pasturizing is not suitable because it is suggested the heating of breastmilk removes the nutrients anyway) I will consider using donated BM for my DD.

For the record, I had blood tests before my milk was accepted, and 6 months later also. The donated milk is pasteurised & then tested again for contaminants. Considering that most of the milk bank milk goes to premmie or very sick babies, they are extremely dilgent about making sure it's safe to give.

So you don't drink cows milk? It's someone else's breast milk, just the "someone else" eats grass and says moo.

And that's pretty much what I said to my kids (who were grossed out by the idea of drinking my EBM)

For me, it isn't about BM v ABM (I see that as a completely separate issue), it is about the very real risk of women being exploited for their milk. Just where do all of those who support the use of BM in place of ABM think all the milk required is going to come from? Do you have any idea of how many women it would take to fill the gap of formula? And how will these women be compensated for it, if at all? And they would have to be compensated in some form because how is it right that women wouldn't get anything for doing it yet the ones that are selling it make all the money kwim. It's a wonderful idea in theory, but it is a rather Utopian one that will never fly. Besides, how long do you think it will take Nestle and Wyeth etc to try to get in on it? Afterall, they are the ones who will lose billions of $$ if it ever happened and they will want a slice of the action considering how large the baby food market it. And if that happens, well we may as well be back where we started from. I fully support 100% the use of milk banks for ill and prem babies, but for the wider population of babies it just wouldn't work.

well said Trillian, what i was kind of thinking this morning but couldn't formulate

**Barb Glare** · November 3rd, 2010, 07:22 AM

Popping in very late, but just noted the original contention that "formula is made in a factory" - nup, it's the milk of another animal! My daughter just started her first after school job, and while I grew up on a farm - it brought it back to me abruptly when I picked her up from work....the smell, the cowsh***. Ughhh

**Junglemum** · November 3rd, 2010, 07:42 AM

It's not listed as 'milk from another animal' more likely whey protein or something like that.....

**delphmoon** · November 3rd, 2010, 07:44 AM

Its on the can KM. Formula is powdered cows milk (basically)

**Junglemum** · November 3rd, 2010, 07:45 AM

http://www.dummies.com/how-to/conten...east-milk.html

**Pretty Butterfly** · November 3rd, 2010, 07:54 AM

I would of GLADLY used EBM from another mum for my little Kane after I stopped expressing for him...

Most clefties have many problems, a major one being ear troubles...

I read up all about it before his birth, and knew that Formula had a worse effect on his ears then BM... it wouldnt drain well from his ears and can go mouldy or contaminate his ear canals... so express I did... for 10 months...

Within weeks of going onto formula, he had a major ear infection, and has had many since, including 2 lots of grommits...

I KNOW this would not of happened had I continued to EBM... and had another womans EBM been avaialable I would of grabbed it with both hands...

Nothing takes away the guilt that I made a bad choice and did more damage to my baby....

I would love to donate also, but there is no milk bank even close to here....

**Trillian** · November 3rd, 2010, 08:58 AM

You didn't make a bad choice PB

you just did what you thought was right and by golly you did a sterling job being able to give him EBM for as long as you did

**MantaRay** · November 3rd, 2010, 01:38 PM

Lots of interesting thoughts. Many of you might also be interested to know that the poll about cross-nursing associated with the article in the second post (I think it was) has, at this point in time, had more Yes responses to No (that is more people think it's ok for a baby to be breastfed by someone other than the mother than not).

Absolutely I would prefer my child to have the breastmilk of a friend or relative, or screened milk bank ebm than formula. The risk of passing disease or illness through breastmilk is very small. This is proven by research and supported even by the conservative AMA. The risks of formula are well known and well documented. Definitely not every baby given formula will have a problem, but it far riskier based on solid research than another person's breastmilk. Culturally it might be an issue as sharing breastmilk is not something we come across every day - when it is done it is usually done discreetly - but medically and nutritionally it is very normal and safe.

One point about formula being life saving for a hungry baby. This is not always true. For premmie babies formula can greatly reduce the survival rate even here in our developed country. In underpriveleged countries, the use of formula causes the death of babies. Several every day sadly. Where there is not access to safe water to make it up. Where it is given in contaminated bottles. Where due to lack of money to buy formula, or lack of literacy, the formula is not mixed in the right ratio. Where the baby is alreay ill and can't tolerate the contanimants. This is a reality. Breastmilk can and does save lives. This is fact.