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LOL Christy, a gf of mine had to help with a horse once (she was doing something to do with volunteer vet work on farms)... She said it was the most horrific experience of her life LOL!
Chloe, I too hadn't thought of the cultural ramifications. I imagine thats why its synthetic these days...
*hugs*
Cailin
I admit I didn't read all of the site either, just the first bit to get an idea of what it was all about - but I figured that naturally they would have these safety processes in place.
I voted not sure, but I hope that I never have to even contemplate using it. I think I would have a lot of issues with it mainly because of the "I can't give my baby BM, so no-one else is doing it for me" sort of thing.
LMAO Christy! Yes I have actually. I worked for a Vet who mostly deals with breeders so c-sections & AI's were every day routine things there. Mind you, I don't see why you would spend so much time gaining a Veterinary degree so you can set up shop to **** dogs!
Fletch I think what was being questioned was women saying they would donate but not use it, not someone like you that wouldn't do either. It was more of a question of why would you be happy to give your milk to someone else's baby but not allow your baby to have someone elses' milk.
I think if you had enough milk to be donating it to a milk bank, then you really wouldn't need to use donated milk for your own baby, so it wouldn't really be an issue.
LOL at men being afraid of BM. My DH and I actually did try a little bit during the short period I BF, it was sweet, but I do prefer the taste of cows milk. My mum told me that once when she was BF my brother she hand expressed some into a cup and left it in the fridge. Dad came along and saw it and, thinking it was cows milk, drank it all! Then he said to mum "That milk tasted funny" and she started laughing and told him he just drank breastmilk :D
Yes Kelly you are absolutely right, and i probably should have chosen softer words, But that was the first word that come to mind when i read the thread LOL!!!! I had no intentions of making anyone feel the need to justify their reasons against or for, and didnt think that i had would have to either, cos i alos felt that i needed to "defend" myself, for making a point that i wouldnt use the milk bank.:
The thought of giving my baby someone elses bodlily fluids just eeks me. Not just breast milk, but blood too. Perhaps maybe its the "unknown" of it all. And when the seeds of "what If", is planted in my head, it makes it hard to accept IYKWIM.
Fletch, Thank you, I think we are on the same wavelength of thinking :)
Ally, that's an interesting point you make about blood. I wonder whether people who wouldn't use donated EBM would or wouldn't allow their child a blood transfusion? It seems that the risks of something being passed on would be the same (or maybe even more with blood as the milk is pasteruised), although of course if blood is needed it is probably a life or death decision so the implications are much more serious. I'm just curious about this because it's not something I had considered.
Mel, It does make an interesting point too. If it came down to a life and death situation, I (as i am sure you and many others may do also) would definately do anything to save my babies life, Heavens I would use absolutely ANYTHING in a Dire situation if it meant saving his life! Therefore if Donated breast milk was the ONLY thing to save the life of my prem baby, yes i would absolutely use it!!:
This is a very interesting thread and I'm going to have to come out of the wood work and say that I voted no and I would not use a breastmilk bank. As with Ally it "just eeks me out" LOL. And yet I would choose to put something manufactured into my childs body... go figure LOL. That is just the way that I feel. TBH I understand that breast is best but I don't see any huge differences between FF and BF babies therefore I would be using formula before somebody elses BM.
And on a side note maybe people are more comfortable with donated blood, semen etc because it is on a more 'technical' term IYKWIM. Yes a BM Bank would adhere to strict standards but feeding your baby is such an emotive issue. And donated sperm, blood etc is generally used as a last resort - so without the blood transfusion you die or without the sperm you won't have a baby. Whereas there is a direct & easy alternative to donated BM - formula. Does this make sense...?? Just a few thoughts anyway.
That's a bit contradictory tho. How is it best if there's no difference? Natural breastmilk is far better for the baby than anything manufactured. It's made with everything a baby needs, at the right time. Of course formula has it's place where people are unable to breastfeed, but we thrive on natural foods as both babies and adults, and given the choice between real food and artificial food, I think I'd be choosing real food.:
TBH I understand that breast is best but I don't see any huge differences between FF and BF babies
Its interesting tho.. speaking of premmy babies.. apparently the milk produced by the mother of a premmy is actually different, to help the baby "catch up". If only they could store up this paticular breastmilk for those premmy bubs.
I can see how that is contradictory... I guess what I meant is that 10 years down the track I wouldn't look at a class full of 10 year olds and be able to define the difference between the FF and BF ones IYKWIM.
Wow, interesting reading since I went to sleep!
For me, I think that blood banks are "safer" than milk banks, just because the blood is checked every time and I know the checks used, as I'm a blood donor. Should I become a milk donor and find out about that, I may ease up about it. I'd rather not need to accept donated milk or blood though! Milk has filters set up in the breast, so it is sort of "safer" than blood, I just don't know about the tests used on it.
Feeding is bonding time - that's why I wouldn't be comfortable with anoth woman's breast being used. EBM, fine, just not actual breast: I don't want my baby being all "bondy" with anyone but Mummy (or maybe Daddy), it must be confusing!
As I've worked with blood products, I know the storage of that too, and how to get out the white cells, the red cells and the plasma. I know a lot more about blood products and that's why I'm more OK with blood than milk. Plus we don't know if people lie about using "recreational" (ie ILLEGAL) drugs when they donate, at least it can be picked up in the blood with the tests done. Yup, slightly elitist, but I know what I've put in my body, I don't know about anyone else.
Sorry, that's a bit bitty, but I would still want to be extra-sure of the EBM that was given to my baby. I just couldn't give EBM that contained any sort of drugs, even though I have no aversion to alcohol (probably once the baby is asleep rather than whilst BFing), it's different when it's someone else's alcohol... does that make sense? As for religion, well, I don't eat pig or cow (but not for religious reasons) but what if the woman donating did?
As for the pig semen - I posted earlier today that wild boars give off a pint at a time, so it wouldn't be too arduous a job to get a large amount. I know some lads who once thought to set up shop selling wild boar semen products... so sadly was privvy to some discussions you'd rather not hear with coffee/lunch.
Nat - I know what you mean.. I know some kids who never touched breastmilk and appear to be just fine. But it is known to have an impact re asthma & allergies etc. It's a sweeping generalisation, but perhaps a lot of those kids with allergies etc are that way because of ff..so that could be a distinguishing factor? But that's a whole other topic! ;)
Ryn - I agree - it's those little lifestyle factors that put me off too. But I'd like to think that I would consider it over going straight to formula.. especially if bub was premmy.. poor little tummy just wouldn't like formula I'm sure! I think it's one of those things you don't really know until you're in that situation.
Oh.. and btw.. I actually voted unsure :) Because "without hesitation" isn't me. Perhaps if there was a choice JUST below that, like "most likely", or "probably".. I'd have picked that. hehe.
I haven't voted yet and I think now that I have read all this I'll vote "yes". When I first saw the poll I was going to vote "unsure".
Thanks so much for raising this issue... I was totally unaware of the milk bank in WA, hope it soon becomes nationwide. I'm sure that many people will continue to feel uncomfortable by the idea but i hope they don't impede the development of the service. It's a very emotive topic and my first reaction was emotive too but it was quickly followed by my intuitive response that said "now hold on... be rational... what are the facts?"
I guess it's human nature to get defensive but I think the issue has been thoroughly examined here which is great. I think it was Fiona Jill who said : "I honestly only question other peoples opinions to get a better idea of things". Yep, well said... I know what it's like to be afraid to ask people to clarify or explain why they feel they way they do... so many people see it as being "attacked". It's wonderful to read a broad variety of thoughts and feelings and "I don't understand you" shouldn't be interpreted as "you're wrong".
So after mulling over the issue and reading all the info (thanks for posting it FJ)... I believe that my child would be more likely to benefit from human milk than from cows. Yes, there's still a bit of a psychological barrier for me but I think I should approach it rationally because at the end of the day the health of a child is best served by a rational rather than emotive approach. ETA: that's not to say that all the people who feel otherwise are being irrational! These are just my thoughts on the matter... kind of an argument with myself LOL
LOL Bath its a great way to sort through things in our minds... I often post something, hear other peoples opinions and then have to rethink my own.
I find the same thing Christy. I even bought this one up with DP and he said he would be fine with it and that it was a great idea... which made me rethink LOL. My first reaction is No and I will stick with that seeing as this is hypothetical LMAO (and all decisions are easy to make when they are hyperthetical!) but it has me look at it from a new perspective IYKWIM.
Ivana ~ You are so right with the whole allergy issues - anything is possible really.Maybe in the future they will be able to prove or disprove things...
Wow - interesting read here! i voted not sure as i wasn't at the time i voted...didn't have any information about the screening and stuff. And to be totally honest my first thoughts were 'eewww' and yes my reaction even surprised MYSELF - as i'm a very proud b/f mother!!!And after a placenta abruption when Ella was born i had a very large blood transfusion (actually half the blood in my body) and i didn't think twice about it being somebody elses.
I guess when it's our own precious child we take those extra precautions and only want the best, safest stuff for them. Ella was premmie and i saw the benefits of my breast milk with her quicker development and recovery - and i would have gladly donated my milk as i had STACKS and felt sad that some mums had probs with their supply and had to give their babes formula. But until i'm in that situation i still cannot say that i'd use someone else's breast milk - blood yes, cause that's a life or death situation - but not too sure about the milk.
The milk bank is a fabulous idea though and it'll be great if it takes off everywhere. Perhaps as it becomes better understood socially with more information provided then opinions, such as my own initial thoughts, will begin to change :)
I think the whole idea of a breastmilk bank is a fantastic idea; but would I use it myself if I were unable to breastfeed? Probably not. Personally, I think it's difficult for a mother who does booby feed to know for sure whether they could feed another woman's breastmilk to their child if they were unable to provide.
I'd imagine most of us would say that we would use the milk if our child's life depended on it; but to use the breastmilk bank in place of my own milk? Hmmm.....
Perhaps I need to familiarise myself with the screening process that would be in place for donors. From a family member or friend whom I knew personally, I'd probably use the milk but from a complete stranger.... well, this is going to sound totally shallow but I wouldn't be able to help but wonder what kind of woman my child is getting nourisement from. I mean, would you ever look at a person who comes across as unhealthy with both their appearance and lifestyle; and think 'oh god, I'm not sure I could allow my child to be fed with her milk.'
I know that's totally shallow of me, but I'm being honest here. Perhaps it's because I see breastfeeding as something so personal...I'm not sure I'd even have the same concerns about blood tranfusions or whatnot.
Beck I don't know that I could use the milk bank either. It's interesting that you raised the blood transfusion issue. It is something I have thought about too. I know that when the subject came up recently in our family with someone maybe having to have one, we talked about one of us donating rather than accepting blood from the blood bank. This is with most of us being regular donors so it isn't that we think we are "better" or "cleaner" than other people ... more that we wanted to be able to provide that for someone in our own family. In an emergency, obviously you would take blood without a problem because that's what it is there for. I can quite understand why people feel even more strongly on the breastmilk issue. It is such a close connection between mother and baby - you are literally providing of yourself for the baby and I don't know if I could let my baby drink someone else's breastmilk. Others may disagree with this or think its stupid but that's how it is for me.
That said, I think the idea in and of itself is an excellent one, particularly in the case of prem babies for whom formula is not really a good option.
The one thing everyone needs to remember is the use of donated milk would only be for the use of a prem or very ill baby while the mother was waiting/establishing for her own milk supply to come in.
Personally I think that BM is a life saver in those situations. I wouldn't use it if 1) I had my own milk (why would anyone??) 2) My baby didn't need it, was full term, healthy etc. I would feeel guilty for taking when more needy babies needed it. If I had a friend or family memeber I trusted who was happy to give me EBM in the situation of a healthy full term baby but I had supply issues, I would use it.
I see it as a medication for prem or ill babies.
I think your right FJ (I love how this forum makes me think...and it seems its done that for a few people too!) I would *only* use it as a medication for a prem baby. Purely because I wouldn't (and now that I think about it they probably wouldn't let anyone anyway) want to take away vital nourishment from a tiny baby that it would make a huge difference too. I think it is more important for a prem baby to help establish a good immunity etc than it would be to have say formula, or for an older established baby to have EBM rather than Formula.
I love this discussion :D Thanks guys! And thanks to those who made me think :)
*hugs*
Cailin
I asked DH this morning.. and he said he guesses it's better than formula, so yeah he'd use it. hehe. I think it's us mum's that are sensitive to the whole "who's feeding my baby" issue. Blokes have a way of detaching from it and thinking logically. hehe.
I think even with full-term healthy bubs it would be good to have it available for a limited time.. just to give them a good start, coz they have sensitive tummies too. But of course we don't know how the supply would keep up, and priority of course should go to premmies. I guess we wouldn't want people jumping in and wanting to use it because they're having problems b/f. We'd have the same issues of people giving up their own feeding too soon, when really they should seek support for continuing establishing their own.
Oh I agree, there is a need for milk to be available to all those who would like to use it. If I knew I wasn't taking away from a more needy bub then I would use it.
I wonder if there would be a market for just the colustrum as well?? I mean foals will die with out the mare's colustrum & if the foal can not have it from its own mother, you can buy it. I know we are not horses but its just as important.
Another PG brain thought. I wonder if you died in labour but the baby survived if you could have in your birth plan that if something so extream was to happen that you be kept "alive" on life support so that baby could have those first important feeds. I know silly PG brain working over time here & the cost involved in doing that would proabbly not see it happen. But I wonder....
I should put it to my midwife at my next visit & see how she reacts LOL.
I talked about htis with DH last night and asked him if something were to happen and we had a prem baby etc and we needed to use a milk bank, would he be OK with it, and he said he didn't see why it would be a problem and would be comfortable with using someone elses milk. I must admit I was a bit surprised, but in a good way that he would be so accepting.
FJ I was wondering too about maternal fatalities, or even in cases where the mother dies in an accident and the baby is prem, all sorts of things were going through my head (I shouldn't think so much LOL)
I also agree re need, but I think there would have to be more donors than users for that to happen and that would be hard, so in all honesty I think it would be a long time before that happens. I think it would be moreso for prem babies, multiples, motherless etc.
*hugs*
Cailin
Simon (dh) was so openly accepting of the idea of milk banks that he was rather gobsmaked that many are not. Or should I say, not willing to use it rather then not accepting of the milk banks.
But then he is my DH for a reason. We agree on everything pretty much.
i would absolutely use a milk bank if i had to. having fed other babies and had my babys fed by sisters/girlfriends i don't have an issue at all. i would much prefer my baby to have human milk than cow's milk. it just isn't an issue for me at all.
my dh knew that if i was to die he had to find oscar (and our other boys) breastmilk when he was under a year old. but like your husband fionajill he is very pro human milk for human babys as am i.
in my circle of friends it just isn't a big deal, breastmilk is for babys and it is most important that the baby receives breastmilk, preferably from the baby's mother but donated if this is not possible.
Thanks for clarifying that (human milk being primarily for premmie babies) and when it's described as basically a medication it makes even more sense! Sure feeding is part of the bonding process but at the end of the day babies need the nutrients in milk for life and wellbeing. Looking at it from the babies perspective I'm sure it would like to feel better (less digestion issues as human milk is more easily digested meaning less wind/constipation etc) and if the baby is too young to suckle from an actual breast then there's not going to be bonding in that kind of way anyhow. I agree that bonding through feeding is important but I'm not sure it plays much part in this particular scenario. If I had to choose to provide a set of nutrients that my premmie baby's body needs or "the next best thing" (cow's milk) I think I'd choose human especially given the stringent set of monitoring that it goes through.
Hmmm I don't know if would want to be kept alive just so my baby could have my milk. I mean if there was no chance of me surviving at all, then I would just like to be let go. But it would probably never happen as the cost involved would be huge.
oh yeah i am the same but if it was just so baby could get the colustrum, i would be ticking yes if it was an option.
But its a bit OT anyway.
I answered yes in thinking that it would only be only until my milk came in for an ill or premmie baby. Jonah got my good stuff mostly in the beginning, although I think the stress, my BP meds and not having him with me really made my supply suffer. But her had it when it counted and I don't feel bad or guilty that he ended up being formula fed. Of course I would have liked it to go for longer that it did and I am mor determined for next time but I don't think he has suffered in any way (and I know no one is saying he has at all, I'm just saying is all :))
What a great discussion this is.
Bec, Your right even a little bit counts & you should be proud that you were able to give him that.
Thanks FJ, I really am proud :D
Oh on the topic of dying and BM etc. I would want to be kept alive atleast until the baby had had all the colostrum, then I would maybe suggest a BM bank, only if they were premmie though and not ill in any way. I don't think I would want to be kept alive just so the baby could have my milk. I just see that as a waste of a bed when someone else might need it. I would however be kept alive if they needed me to be to incubate the baby until they could be born, but that's a whole other discussion all together.
Hmmmmmm, I'm sure it's possible to relactate Shannon. A MCHN that we saw was telling us that women who have adopted babies can breastfeed them. Apparently there's some kind of apparatus that goes over the shoulder and some way attaches to the nipple. The baby sucks from that and gets the milk but the sucking action on the nipple can make a woman lactate. Now that sounds like a lot of bull to me and I was surprised, maybe I should do some research.
Shannon, did you know that relactating is possible? FJ would be able to help you out with info if you're interested.
I know all the diseases and things now days are a very big part of the reason that wet-nursing has lost all popularity, but I wonder whether it would still be more popular if formula wasn't available. Just a thought. I guess it would have to be as the babies would starve otherwise. It's just interesting that in the past upper class women preferred lower class women feeding their babies than doing it themselves, and now, as a society, we find the idea of even using other people's screened milk "eek"! This is such an interesting dicussion. I'm enjoying all the different POVs.
Melanie
Tigergirl, you could try the ABA website to start. There were stories in last months ABA magazine about adoptive mums who were bfing. Apparently even men can - I know this sounds ludicrous but there are documented cases!
Wow, that is awesome, off to look at that. It's very interesting.
ETA: I can't find that info on there, can you point me in the right direction? Ta.
Shannon - What a bugger that Jess is having such a tough time. Is there another milk which is closer? I'm thinking goats milk, but I'm not sure at all.
I too would feed another persons child. To me there isn't a special bond of feeding - I dont know why but to me its just a bodily function. And I would actually rather someone feed my child at the breast if they had to than express and do the bottle thing. I would love to see someone feeding another person's baby!!! Do you think the baby would know? How wierd to feel the sensation of someone else's feeding style. Just totaly fascinating!!!
That is an interesting idea Fi... doesn't irk me when i really think about it... it's just an incredibly generous act. Some species of animals are capable of it (even feeding babies of a differing species) and if we humans think we are "better" than animals then why don't we do it more often? Loving your own child is easy but I think to extend that love to the child of another is really extra special.
I think I feel the same way. If, for some reason I wasn't able to feed my premmie baby (say if I was in an accident or something.... causing early labour) I wouldn't mind it if someone BF my baby so that it gets the whole attachment thing - because that's pretty important too. Of course, I'd want to know the person (a close friend, one of my sisters... something like that).
Shannon, another thing you may like to try is trhe A2 milks. DH uses this milk & its done wonders for his bowels.
Yep it is possible to relactate. You can email me if you would like some info.