Tigergirl, I can't find the info there either. Pity, it must have just been in the magazine. FionaJill should have info though...
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Tigergirl, I can't find the info there either. Pity, it must have just been in the magazine. FionaJill should have info though...
Bugger, thanks though. Will e-mail Fiona :)
shannon it is lovely having like minded people around me. it is absolutely possible to relactate. usually a supply line is used. have you tried jessalyn on the breast? i guess it would depend how long it has been since her last feed. good luck with your research if you choose to look into it further. it is hard when we are unsure about a decision we have made. hugs.
beckles
Im going to put my two bob in here.
I think if i had a premmie baby id probably use the milk bank if it was offered. But unfortunatley i dont think breastfeeding is supported enough in hospitals to have it offered. I think the majority of nurses dont encourage mums to keep trying when its so damn hard to begin with.
If i were a first time mum again and i couldnt b/f for some reason then i dont think i would use the milk bank, and thats only for the reason of lack of information and support of using BM.
I think its sad that mums arent helped more when trying to feed there baby's, its not like you can say to you baby 'oh hang on, your hungry so lets try again tomorrow, you can do without cant you' this is why formula is the only option. And this is totally understandble.
As far as being kept alive while bub gets BM. Thats and even harder answer because i think even though the baby is still newborn dont you think it would be more traumatic for it to be feeding of its dead mum. Id want the best for my kids if that were to happen but keeping me alive just isnt it. How painfull that would be for everyone involved. Id opt for formula unfortunately. At least my baby was being fed.
In the case of death I don't think the baby would be feeding from the dead mum but that they would take the milk from the mum so that he/she could still have the mum's milk.
And I think that there are a lot of nurses that encourage BF, I know they did at the hospital that I went to, I think it just depends on the nurse and the hospital. I think though a lot of it is time constraints. They have schedules that they have to stick to and unfortunately BF can take a long time and they don't have time. I'm sure they would be more supportive if they had the time but unfortunately they don't and I really feel for them in that circumstance, they probably want to do more but they can't.
I think considering I have had an extremely premmie bub myself (he was 12 weeks early), and knowing the absolute importance breastmilk is to premmies, YES YES YES. but living rurally, It would depend on the availability as to how long it would be plausible to keep using it.
Also, there was a set of orphaned twins who were premmie in the RWH Brisbane when i had my son. they actually had a sign up on the humidicribs, telling staff to give them lots of touching, and love, as there mother had abandoned them. A breastmilk bank would be also vital to such needy babies as those. My heart absolutely broke when i saw how small, and unloved these babes were.
Oh that's awfully sad, poor little bubbas :(
I don't think that the baby would be put to the breast of the mother on life support, But her milk expressed. I was only refering to the first few feeds as well, nothing long term.
I think in the case of premmie babies, it is encouranged more to give breastmilk. At the ABA conference I attended earlier this year there wasa guest speaker from the Hospital in Newcastle (I think) and he spoke about the important role of BM for premmie babies. But he did also talk about how for very premmie babies it wasn't enough & specially formulated formula was also needed to meet the requirement a baby of such low birth weight. They need to put on weight on fast & from what I could understand of his disscussion, BM alone just doesn't cut it. BUT he was talking about really really premmie babies, like less then 30 weeks.
Alot of the ABA counsellors didn't totally agree with him, but only because no trial (as such) has actually been done to see if they can thrive & survive on BM alone in those situations. But hey, what parent is going to put their hand up & say yeah go ahead try it on my baby. KWIM.
Probably not really a question for a male to be answering, but i thought i'd add my opinion.
I answered 'No i would use formula'. Main reason is i cant see anything wrong with FF kids. I was a FF kid and grew up normal. IMO anyway :)
I never got any childhood illnesses, just the odd cold etc...So saying that FF kids are more likely to catch illnesses and diseases is a crock.
My weight has never been an issue. My BMI has always been in between 20 & 25. So FF didn't make me obese.
My DS was FF from day 1 and is thriving. I was involved from day 1 and i am glad that i could share in the experience with DW. The thought of my little man being attached to, or guzzling down some other womans milk does not appeal to me.
No regrets. IMO
Mick
Mick - I don't think anyone says that ALL ff kids get sick.. I mean.. not ALL smokers get lung cancer :) It is understood tho that ff can increase the chances of allergies and sickness. Recent generations have so many more food intolerances, and it's these generations that were fed formula as babies. I don't think it's a crock at all.
It's great that you've been involved in the feeding of your son :) That is also possible with breastfeeding, by the father feeding a bottle of expressed milk. It's not necessary to be ff'ing for the fathers to be involved.
And it's definitely a question for the males too.. there's usually two parents making these decisions :)
wow - what an interesting thread...so many questions...
I would have said yes straight away to using someone elses milk - until you lovely ladies started describing it as bodily fluids!! :p If my baby was prem & I couldn't feed then I would consider it. I think where some of the ewww factor comes into it for me is thinking of someone expressing, sticking it in the freezer and pulling it out to give it to me, which is why I'm not sure I could take it from a friend. It's weird, as long as I think of it going through a 'manufacturing' process of sorts (for lack of a better word) I would be fine taking it. Just the way we've been programmed I think. I don't think I could drink 'fresh' cow's milk either (milk the cow and take it to the kitchen), give it to me pasteurised and everything else any day!
I can see why people would find it difficult, my 20yo brother won't even touch a bottle that's got bm in it - but he reckons he'd be ok if it was from his wife (hypothetically - he's not married).
One more thing. We know that what the mother eats goes through to the bm and causes different reactions, so we eliminate certain things from our diets to keep our babies comfortable - surely you would get situations where mothers had extremely unsettled babies due to the bm, esp in tiny bubs that have such sensitive stomachs. Also, what if your baby had allergies, there's no way you could know what the donor had eaten in order to eliminate possiblities. I know they wouldn't be on donated milk forever, but surely that could present a few problems. (I haven't read the article yet, so forgive me if this is answered in there)
Anyway, that's my 2 cents
Bel
Just to clarify the reason they say that FF babies are more likely to catch illnesses is because formula doesn't contain live white blood cells to fight bugs and illness like breastmilk does. I think it's a perfect example in third world countries where they really do need to be having their breastmilk if they can, because they are more likely to catch disease. The breastmilk is very protective in this case.
Bel, that was really interesting - I'm still not convinced because I'd like to have donated milk first, or known someone who had so I knew the risks, but after reading this I'd be less squeamish, not more! As you say though, you'd want to know what was and wasn't eaten (drunk, smoked, and injected) by the mother before even considering using it.
Quick Q on the whole cow milk thing too: how do you feel about meat? I know a lot of people with offal problems because they don't like the thought of eating a liver... but love a steak. See that moo-cow over there? Both come from the same animal!
I could just never eat anything that processes the waste products of the animal.. such as liver & kidney. Blerk!
Not to mention how totally gross it smells!!! I had to carpool with a guy once for 50mins who had his dinner in the back of the car - it was cooked offal, and I had the window open the whole way. It was 7pm, in the middle of winter (about 3-4deg) and I didn't care. The smell turned my stomach!!
I have eaten a teeny tiny amount of brains - but there is no way I could eat liver or kidney - PUKE!!!
Yeah... there's just something about eating the gizzards of an animal that turns me off!! LOL
Sorry if i got it wrong, i didnt realise you all were referring to EBM from dead mother. Still though, would the body still allow for the let down. I suppose though if its just for the collustrum then she wouldnt get a let down, horrible topic this.
I dont think that this subject has anything to do really with FFng bubs. The question is 'would you use a milk bank', so forgive me for my ignorance but thats breast milk. I dont understand why the FFng parents are thinking that this topic is haveing a go at them for their decision. Which in fact is THEIR decision. So can we move on and stop agrueing about formula versus breastmilk. Please.
Ive noticed the worry of what goes into the breastmilk ie smoking mum, drugs etc but what about the day to day things your feeding your kids now. What about the additives that are in the food that are far more harmful than a mother that smokes or takes drugs. The whole idea of the breast bank is to give the premmie bubs a head start in life and im sure the screening would be there anyway like FJ has already shown just like with blood its screened. So that isnt really an issue.
I agree that dads can also feed there kids BM from the mum expressing, i know lots of mums that do that to give themselves a break as well as encouraging the bond between bub and dad. Its nice to see a fathers point of view put in here.
Im finished now.
Kerrie. I'm not argueing about formula vs breastmilk. The Poll stated 'would you use a milk bank or formula.':
I put down my vote, gave my opinion, and already i have seen people defend BF or put down FF. I simply wanted to put my opinion down. I wasn't out to say BFing is crap, or FF is the best. I was simply stating that i wouldn't use a milk bank and that FF worked fine for me. The original post did say to put down your opinion, and i did that.
I'll leave it at that.
Mick
I probably wouldn't, but not because I'd feel weird about feeding my baby milk from someone else, but because I don't see anything wrong with forumla and the milk bank might be more of a hassle than it's worth. If you can afford it and it's easy to access though, then sure why not.
On another side note about father/baby bonding. Feeding doesn't have to be the only way a father can bond with his child. If it was so important that this be the way a parent bonds with their child, Men would have developed the abilty to lactate. Parenting is a HUGE role & feeding is just a tiny part of it.
LOVE is the major role.
ETA: Sorry, I have a bit mroe to add. A few mentioned the cost involved with providing donated BM to a premmie baby. from the Milk Bank website
:
Are mothers paid for their donation?
No. We recognise that donating breast milk is an extremely generous gift and in turn ensure that it is safely supplied free of charge to hospitalised babies in need.
FJ - I think you are starting off another debate here where one need not be started.
People have answered this with honestly with their thoughts and opinions with reference to BM & FF. I am sure that everyone is well educated in BM vs FF. And whilst all threads are open for discussion I don't really see how your post is required - considering the fact it was actually in response to those saying that they would choose to use FF and not in response to the question itself.:
In light of the announcement of the opening of the breastmilk bank in WA, I thought I would run a poll to see who would use a breastmilk bank for their premature baby, should you have no milk. What are your thoughts? Would you prefer formula to someone else's milk?
I think it is posts like yours that create these types of debates because you seem unwilling to accept that people do not share your views. This is just my opinion and just for the record I am in no way defensive about FF and I think BF is a wonderful thing. You are a wonderful asset to BellyBelly but sometimes I have to wonder if you have considered that your passion for breast feeding can sometimes make other members feel uncomfortable.:
Its so sad that these types of topics always turn into a "debate" about breast verses bottle.
I completly understand what you are saying. I did think that my post may attract some negative feed back,
I will go & edit it. Although I don't agree that I am unwilling to accept that people don't share my veiws. I just see it time and time again that people seem to thing that FFing & BFing are one in the same. But yes your right, my post really had nothing to do with the original topic. I was just responding to a few comments made by others.
I totally agree with you Lea! That people are unwilling to accept other peoples views. :)
I do not think that it is appropriate to be ADDING UNNECESSARY comments to peoples opinions. Let them have an opinion, and LEAVE IT AT THAT.
It is pretty obvious that parenting is not just about feeding.
I think that this POLL should have been JUST a POLL and nothing more, although it has made good reading, BUT obviously so many people have been offended by comments and opinions.
Accept peoples views and just MOVE ON unless you have something constructive to say.
Have a go at me if you will, But I get the feeling that if the majority disagree with ones opinion then they are not allowed to express it. Rather annoying actually.
I'd just like to say in FJ's defense.. a lot of her posts ARE constructive, as she is educated on the benefits of breastfeeding etc, and I understand that she feels compelled to respond when comments are made that appear to lessen the importance of breastmilk.
I think the breastmilk vs formula question is actually quite relevant in this particular topic, because it's especially talking about the care of premature babies, and what is best for them. And it's interesting to read peoples responses to what feeding method they would use in that situation.
Same goes for FJ's opinions too :):
Let them have an opinion, and LEAVE IT AT THAT.
Thanks!
I was thinking on the way hom ein the car just now. Its not that I can't accept that people disagree with me. Its not like the debate is over "ford" or "Holden", Its Nature/normal verses artificial. So Its the fact so many not only disagree with me, but Nature that I can't understand/accept.
I may be totally off the mark, but I also think that my posts are mostly constructive & well informed. Thats why I post, I post correct information. Other wise I wouldn't comment. I can see how some may take my posts as an attack, but its not my intention.
For example,
Then this is a reply I get:
On another side note about father/baby bonding. Feeding doesn't have to be the only way a father can bond with his child. If it was so important that this be the way a parent bonds with their child, Men would have developed the abilty to lactate. Parenting is a HUGE role & feeding is just a tiny part of it.
LOVE is the major role.
What did you think that was an attack too? It wasn't i was simply pointing out that feeding is not the most important role in bonding.:
It is pretty obvious that parenting is not just about feeding
FJ I believe it is called snide remarks, something that you learn to grow out of when YOU GROW UP. Obviously you havent exp this yet.
IVANA I havent seen any CONSTRUCTIVE advice about FF YET.
What exactly was snide about it? I was simply offering information on the topic. Many people don't realise that feeding isn't as important in bonding as they think. I see it all the time. Questions on how much to express so DH can feed baby, so he can bond. I see it on here & IRL. So it is something that isn't as obvious as you think.:
Why would I offer constructive advice on FFing? I BF. I wouldn't have a clue how to FF! I only know the reason why BFing is so important & why FFing does not compare to these benifits.:
IVANA I havent seen any CONSTRUCTIVE advice about FF YET.
FJ you made this comment:
I'm not really sure how this relates to you as in this thread the majority of people are speaking in support of the BF Bank. And as an interesting point I see the poll currently sits with "No I would opt for formla" 3 points ahead of Yes. I find it interesting that only a few have nominated to post along with their 'No' vote.:
But I get the feeling that if the majority disagree with ones opinion then they are not allowed to express it.
I agree with both and you Invana - yours posts can be contructive and informative and are interesting to read. Its comments like this:
that distort your posts. You are well educated and informed when it comes to BM & BF and anyone can see that it is your passion but that underlying unacceptance of people disagreeing with you albeit nature also shines through with your posts. You make it hard to agree to disagree IYKWIM.:
Its the fact so many not only disagree with me, but Nature that I can't understand/accept.
Ivana ~ The BM vs FF is relevant to the topic at hand but FJ's post was not in regards to the actual question. It was not the subject but the context I was questioning.
I did not mean to start a war here LOL. I have enjoyed reading this thread as it has certainly opened my eyes up and educated me. Maybe I should have contacted FJ offline rather then posting but what is done is done now. My intent was never to offend anyone or shut down any ones right of speech but rather to point out something I felt was inappropriate.
FJ ~ I sincerely hoped I haven't offended you in anyway.
Perhaps now we can move back to the subject at hand.
Most of your snide remarks Fiona have been Edited or Removed.
At the end of the day, we can have a little giggle about our differences...after all as they say, no one is ever really right or wrong. :)
I am moving on now...
Mick, i retract my comment. I have been reading the posts and didnt pay attention to the poll. I didnt notice the formula part. My apologies.
I have to say in Fiona's defence as well that all her comments are not just something that pops off the top of her head. They are fully researched comments and she is only trying educate those who dont know. I dont find what she says as offensive at all and thats not just because i B/F, its because i value her advice on things. Isnt that what we are all in here for, to get opinions and ideas as to what other mums do so we can learn and get a bit of help from each other.
We are ALL grown people and she act that way. Passing snide remarks is not very mature and doesnt help this forum to have that sort of talk floating around.
Advise and opinions are wonderful because you can take or leave them as you chose.
Girls please remember this is not a thread for a personal slanging match and I refer you to THIS POST
Love
Kelly wrote
:
Yep I think the worst thing about it is thinking about the poor person who's job it is to collect it
Oh Kelly, that was laugh out loud funny!!!
(NB: This is going to take me AGES! ;) Must make usre I get it right so as not to be misconstrued)
Do you know what ladies? I think its really really unfortunate. This whole discussion shoudl really be a simple; yes I would use it, no I wouldnt use it, or Im not sure it would depend on the circumstances.
Insetad as regualrly is the case it turns into a who is right and wrong and everyone having to validate their answers. You are all mums (or otherwise hoping to be - like me :p). It shouldnt be matter of criticising decisions, none of you should feel guilt for the decisions you have made. We are not given rule books for this. We are given a brain in our head and tonnes and tonnes of conflicting 'research' and advice and from that we make our choices.
If you love your child, you do what you can to make them happy and keep yourself happy (an also very important fact that is often forgotten) and you do all you can to keep them safe and make decisions based on your own sifting through it all and you end up with a happy healthy baby - then WELL DONE! It would be lovely, so lovely, to see women banding together more and supporting each other as mothers, rather than being busy criticising, judging and questioning their parenting methods.
You are all such wonderful strong women with strong minds and big hearts and no doubt this comes across in your mothering as well. As for your babies just - Hug them, love them, appreciate them and care for them - as you all already do. And appreciate that its good that we dont all have the same opinions, that we do things differently - its what creates the wonderfully diverse world that we live in.
Damn... cant find that sopabox emoticon - clearly I need it...;) so getting off mine now.
ETA: This is not directed at any one person it is at us all (myslef included) we are all guilt of judging - it is what we do as a result that really matters.I'll be honest, its not easy always trying to keep the peace, I agree absolutely! There are many things that I would like to say in response to some of the posts here that I do feel are attacking and offensive, but I restrain because it is not my place to criticise. Lets ty and keep this the supportive, encouraging environment it was intended to be. :grouphug:
Nicely said, Keen.
I said No. I dont feel any need to validate my decision, because its just that, my decision :)
(when you give reason, you get questioned, simpler to say no/yes.)
xoxo
Colleen
OK I said yes and I feel like giving a reason :)
As all of my family and close friends know I am very very pro breastfeeding. So much so that I can debate back and forth about the pro's and often get upset when I am asked for advise on bfing but then my answers are not listened too or followed, only to end up with someone who's milk has gone and can no longer feed. I have breastfed all of my childre, extended fed Noah and now Tehya. I like to think that I know what I am talking about when it comes to bfing. Experience counts for alot as for most things in life.
Anyway, back to the OP. Without a doubt I would both donate and recieve if I had a preterm baby and was unable to produce my own milk for bub. The colostrum and milk that follows in those first few weeks/ months is sooooo important to bub. I would also have no hesitation in putting a friends baby to my breast if she could not produce for her child or expressing for that baby.
My midwife who was also bfing her daughter watched Tehya for me for a little while one afternoon. She had fallen asleep when I was at her house and I had to go and get Noah. She told me instead of rushing back she would call me when Tehya woke so I could come back. When Tehya woke she was beside herself, my midwife called me and told me that she was awake and screaming, she seemed hungry. My reply was simple. Feed her then. She had no hesitation. Tehya on the other hand, did and knew that it wasn't her booby. I know that this lady is a healthy person, she doesn't drink, smoke, do drugs and probably has a healthier diet than me. Afterall if her milk was good enough for her daughter, it was good enough for mine.
Now, granted I was no there to watch my baby on another woman's breast, and I'm really not sure how I would've felt if I was. But, in saying that I have no doubt if I couldn't do it then I would be more than happy to have someone close to me do it.
As for being kept alive for my baby to get those first important feeds. For sure, hell keep me alive for a few months if you want. Maybe they'll find a cure for me while I'm waiting :)
FJ, thankyou for your always imformative post's. I love reading the stuff you write about bfing. I know that it's hard to hold back when you are so passionate about something you so firmly believe in. But, then again, why should you have to hold your tongue (or fingers) for fear of retrobution.
I dont want anyone to feel that they can't give a reason. I think we've been through all the previous posts and can now appreciate that we can understand that we'll all have differing opinions.
I chose yes, because IMO I believe there is less risk for a prem baby to have breastmilk, it is more readily digested and absorbed and contains white blood cells for protection against infection, a big problem for prem babies.
I wasnt saying other ppl cant give reason, I meant in my case, it was easier for me to not give a reason.
xoxo
hehe.. too true! But it is nice to hear peoples reasons, coz often its things I haven't thought of myself :):
Like I said earlier.. I said undecided, but only because i DO have some hesitation. I'm a "most likely" with a bit more research and convincing! ;)