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thread: Why we shouldn't use the term "Breastfeeding Nazi" *long*

  1. #1
    BellyBelly Member

    Sep 2010
    North West Victoria, Australia
    3,003

    Why we shouldn't use the term "Breastfeeding Nazi" *long*

    Just an article that I found from yesterday. A bit of a read, but I enjoyed it....


    Nazi [ˈnɑːtsɪ]n pl Nazis1. (Historical Terms) a member of the fascist National Socialist German Workers' Party, which was founded in 1919 and seized political control in Germany in 1933 under the Austrian-born German dictator Adolf Hitler (1889-1945)
    2. Derogatory anyone who thinks or acts like a Nazi, esp showing racism, brutality, etc.
    adj
    - The Free Dictionary

    Today is officially Holocaust Remembrance Day. But growing up in a Jewish household, pretty much every day was Holocaust Remembrance Day. My parents were part of a generation charged with the tremendous responsibility of the slogan "never forget". They made sure we didn't. Anne Frank was my childhood hero. We never bought German cars or listened to Wagner. And when I fell in love for the first time, and the boy happened to be born and bred in Frankfurt.. well, let's just say Romeo and Juliet had nothing on us.

    In college, I took a class on German Nationalism and Character. I wanted to learn about what could turn the majority of a nation's population into something so ugly, something that would happily slay 6 million of my people as well as far too many homosexuals, Gypsies, and people who just didn't fit in. I'd heard loved ones make angry, anti-German comments, and it rubbed me the wrong way. Not all Germans had been Nazis. And even if they had been (as was the case with my young beloved's grandparents) that didn't mean we should blame the sins of the (grand)father on a younger, innocent generation.

    The class was phenomenal. Taught by a visiting professor from West Germany, we learned about the historical events that led up to World War II. There were certainly aspects of the German national character that could have contributed to the ease with which Hitler took power, but it wasn't something in their genetic code. Rather, it was a history of feeling less-than, misunderstood, unappreciated; it was the timing of a charismatic leader who banked on the fact that his countrymen would lap up promises of supremacy and pride like hungry cats given a bowl of cream.

    I'm not excusing what occurred in Nazi Germany, by any means. It was, in my opinion, the most horrific display of the dark side of human nature that the world has ever seen. But I think it is important for people to understand that this could have happened in any country. The group dynamic is powerful. Scapegoating is tempting. The union of anger and insecurity can lead to the birth to pure evil.

    Group dynamic. Scapegoating. Anger. Insecurity.

    I don't take the term "Nazi" lightly. I don't like name calling, and I don't like hyperbole. But I also think most of us don't fully understand what the tenets of Nazism were. Calling someone a Nazi is not only accusing them of acting like someone who committed genocide. It is also inferring that they possess certain traits. As the Danish Center for Holocaust and Genocide Studies explains:

    Nazism or National Socialism (German: Nationalsozialismus) is an ideology that received its practical political form in the regime that governed Germany from 1933-1945. Nazism is a variety of another totalitarian ideology, fascism. The political goal of both ideologies is to establish a totalitarian state, that is to say a modern, bureaucratic state, where the government is completely dominant in relation to the individual. It is thus a purpose of the regime to monopolise all human activities, both private and public.

    Nazism was specifically characterised by:

    Building on a charismatic leader figure (Adolf Hitler) and on the support of the military,

    Inventing common enemies (Jews, communists, liberals, pacifists, free masons, gypsies, Jehovah’s Witnesses, homosexuals, etc.),

    Trying to re-model the working class by making the workers focus on ‘higher ideals’ than the traditional class struggle; such ‘higher ideals’ included extreme nationalism, racism, and especially war.

    I have cringed every time I've see the term "breastfeeding nazi", or even worse, "boob nazi". I've seen responses about how insulting it is to those affected by the Holocaust to sling this term around willy nilly, and I agree with this, for the most part. I also think using the word "nazi" as an insult takes away the power of the term itself. The end of the German Nazi party was not the end of nazism. There is a strong neo-Nazi contingent in the USA and UK, among other countries. We shouldn't call someone a Nazi unless we mean it.

    However, I also think that certain facets of lactivism do veer into fascist territory (Nazism is a form of fascism, but other fascist regimes have thrived in Italy, Latin America, Indonesia, and Spain. In breastfeeding supremacy (thank you to the ever-brilliant Jessica Valenti for that far better and more PC term), the common enemy is the formula companies/breastfeeding-unfriendly physicians/formula feeders. The charismatic leaders are the "famous" and most intolerant breastfeeding advocates, people like Jack Newman, William Sears, Darcia Navarez, Gabrielle Palmer, and so forth. The military support comes from grassroots organizations and mommy blogs, who wield the power to call widespread boycotts of commercial products over WHO Code infractions. And the "higher ideals" are extreme, religious beliefs in the power of breastmilk and a conviction that breastfed babies will be stronger, healthier, smarter, and more beautiful human specimens.

    +This essay outlines the "14 common characteristics" of fascist regimes. Some of these characteristics include:

    "Powerful and Continuing Nationalism - Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays."

    There are patriotic mottos in breastfeeding supremacy, too. Mottos like "Breast is best". "Breast is normal". "Babies are born to be breastfed". "Breastmilk is a baby's birthright."

    "Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights - Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of 'need.'"

    Obviously, compassion isn't a human right (although it should be, if you ask me). But I have seen Newman, Frank Oski, and other respected breastfeeding advocates state that making women feel guilty is a good thing, because it might help them see the error of their ways, serving the "need" of higher breastfeeding rates.

    "Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause - The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe..."

    Comparing formula to cigarettes. Boycotting Babble.com for running formula ads. Hurling insults at blogs like this one or sites like Bottle Babies simply for the fact that we exist to support ALL parents, male or female, regardless of how they feed their babies. Sending hate mail to doctors who dare to suggest that breastfeeding might not be all it's cracked up to be. Raging about the social "booby traps" that ruin breastfeeding rates. Fighting Facebook over their refusal to allow breastfeeding photos (which I agree is insanely stupid, and I think Facebook is being a major douchebag, but is this really where we want to be putting our energy and activism?). There is clearly a perceived common threat or foe, and one that can obviously spark a unifying frenzy. Or a Twitstorm, which is the unifying frenzy of the new millennium.

    "Supremacy of the Military - Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected."

    Replace the word "military" with "breastfeeding initiatives" and "domestic agenda" with "the real issues plaguing the emotional and physical health of women and children" and you'll see where I'm going with this. When breastfeeding becomes one of the major tenets of the anti-childhood obesity campaign, rather than addressing the need for cheap, healthy food or fighting for better recess and PE programs in our inner city schools, something is off.

    "Rampant Sexism - The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid...the state is represented as the ultimate guardian of the family institution."

    Okay, so obviously the grassroots breastfeeding organizations are female-dominated (although I would argue that those who have made the biggest impact in mainstream breastfeeding research and discourse have been men - paging Dr. Sears...). But traditional gender roles are an inherent part of a pro-breastfeeding discourse. Women are encouraged to stay home as long as possible in order to preserve the exclusive breastfeeding relationship. Mothers are credited (or blamed, depending on how they feed their children) for the intelligence, emotional development, health and weight of their offspring. Men are not part of the equation; genetics be damned. The State has become the guardian of this one aspect of child rearing, as governments coerce encourage women to nurse for the good of the nation.

    "Controlled Mass Media - Sometimes the media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common."

    Hence, the reason why every article has to start off with "breastfeeding has been proven without a doubt to be the healthiest and best way to feed an infant" even if the article is talking about a downside to breastfeeding. Articles or quotes which may be construed as "pro-formula" are immediately attacked; the media outlet is accused of being in the pockets of the formula industry, or the writer/person quoted has "industry ties". It doesn't matter if there is no concrete proof.

    I'm also concerned with how the conversation is turning away from mom-blaming and into baby-shaming. I saw a tweet the other day about how baby powder was created to cover up the stench of formula-fed babies. And then there was the Facebook thread where a woman blithely commented that all the obese babies she'd seen were formula fed, and she "much preferred petite breastfed babies". The Alpha Parent recently posted this mock-up ad she created, in reference to a conversation about the power of presenting "facts" versus avoiding guilt:

    *Picture of an obese person with a baby's face over top*


    Source: The Alpha Parent | Facebook
    Text reads: "Babies are born to be breastfed"; "Formula fed babies are 600 times more likely to have a life of obesity"

    This is uncomfortable territory, in my opinion. It reminds me of the Nazi propaganda posters about how to spot a Jew, with exaggerated comic-strip versions of every Jewish stereotype around. When we talk about the superiority of breastfed babies over formula-fed babies, we are creating an atmosphere of supremacy, of "pure" versus "unpure".

    Speaking of darkly evocative breastfeeding promtion, this charming essay was written for Feed The Babies Fund, a non-profit, charitable organization in South Africa (a country which has been earning praise for its new focus on breastfeeding):

    It is beyond doubt that the good health status of any nation’s citizens makes an important contribution towards economic progress. ..One of the best ways to ensuring a healthy life for somebody in his/her life span is having a firm health foundation at infancy; a role mainly played by breastfeeding mothers…mothers have the responsibility of investing in the health of their children and the nation by choosing to breastfeed as this choice will impact positively on the stock of health for the kids as they grow. A healthy workforce means a sound human capital base for any nation which ensures a high level of productivity at the workplace. In other words, the type of feeding chosen by mothers for their infants can to some extent determine the level of income that a family and ultimately a nation will earn. If high infant mortality rates are a function of a lack of proper breastfeeding as reported in various media, then one can conclude that families who choose not to breastfeed choose to reduce the stock of health, the time that their children are to survive, ultimately the income that they earn, the income that the nation will earn as well as the socio-economic welfare and progress of the nation.

    Parents therefore need to take cognisance of the fact that behind every healthy-child and ultimately every healthy nation is a woman who reasonably and responsibly decides to participate in critical health-enhancing behaviours such as breastfeeding children against all odds… Clearly, one of the reasons why many countries in Africa are burdened by diseases is partially because of inadequate breastfeeding of infants... There is... no justifiable excuse for any mother not to breastfeed considering the vast advantages of breastfeeding discussed in this article.

    All Germans were not Nazis, and obviously, all lactivists are not engaging in fascist or supremacist behavior. It sucks that some bad eggs are ruining what should be a really healthy, wholesome omelette. But we also cannot sit idly by and watch a subtle form of fascism grow. So while I am ardently against indiscriminate hurling of the "boob nazi" label, I wish breastfeeding advocates would please consider why this term has gained popularity. Reading the excerpt above, I think it's pretty damn clear.

    Maybe I'm overreacting. Lately, though, I've become more and more distressed with the state of breastfeeding advocacy. Articles on Mothering.com and Psychology Today, as well as this hot mess of misleading propaganda from Infact Canada (notice the cute but foreboding cartoon imagery surrounding the text) have made me nervous; it seems that the more a backlash grows against the pressure to breastfeed, the more people want to apply stronger pressure.

    The thing is, we can talk all we want about informed choice. But informed choice cannot mean manipulation. If the facts are that formula fed babies have a higher risk for asthma, this should be explained to parents in a calm and clear way, with meaningful statistics and explanations that illustrate relative risk. But if you take that same fact and turn it into a public service announcement like this-

    *Picture wouldn't copy across, but it's a picture of a asthma inhaler with a bottle teat on it*

    - you are manipulating your audience. You aren't allowing them to make an "informed choice", because that choice is now colored with fear. And that, my friends, is something that all fascist regimes have in common: they control by fear.



    -------------------------------------
    Last edited by Rouge; April 26th, 2012 at 03:30 PM. : Link removed.

  2. #2
    Registered User

    Nov 2010
    Perth, WA
    3,172

    I seriously can't like this enough!

    My theory has always been that at the end of the day if a baby is fed, sheltered and loved that is the most important thing. How said baby is fed whether breast or bottle is not a call for the extremes of bullying behaviour that is sometimes displayed by both sides of the breast/bottle debate.

  3. #3
    Registered User
    Add Shades on Facebook

    May 2008
    Capalaba, QLD
    1,243

    That was fascinating and made some great points - thanks for posting!

    Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

  4. #4
    Registered User
    Add Fig on Facebook

    Nov 2006
    Perth
    197

    IMO this is over the top. The article compares people who promote breast feeding as nazi's, fascists & surpremists. Sometimes the pendulum does need to swing wide in order to change public opinion. Look at the history of feminism. As a breast feeding mum I was criticized for feeding my post 12 month old baby by many, government, health professionals and the general public. So i dont agree that attitude and information is bias to breastfeeding anymore than it is bias to formula. We are lucky enough to live in a country where information IS freeley available, not a faciasit, communist regime which the article compares government and society too.
    Last edited by Fig; April 27th, 2012 at 01:23 PM.

  5. #5
    Registered User
    Add TeniBear on Facebook Follow TeniBear On Twitter

    Oct 2009
    Lalor, VIC
    5,051

    I'm not entirely sure I understand this. It begins as a "don't compare people to Nazis" thing, then goes straight into the similarities between real Nazis and lactivists. Is it supposed to be pro-breastfeeding or not?

  6. #6
    Registered User

    Oct 2009
    Bonbeach, Melbourne
    7,177

    Wow is all I can say. Sounds like propaganda to me

    Very confusing article.

  7. #7
    Registered User

    Jul 2008
    summer street
    2,708

    Breast feeders are in the minority though so again the correlation to nazism is flawed.

    Activists often take on extreme views and means to make their case. Doesn't mean activists can be aligned with fascists: would you call an environmental activist a fascist for using extreme tactics to change public perception about their key points? I'm sure many other types of activists have created cartoons, tried to manipulate public perception, used expert opinions and spokespeople to further their cause and tapped into a sense if 'the greater good'.

    It seems the facism term is saved for female based politics (feminonazi is used to described feminists too).

    What ****s me, is this article isn't really about breastfeeding advocates, or breastfeeding at all, it's actually a dig at extremism as it exists in any ideology.

    Whats new? Extremism sucks...so????

  8. #8
    BellyBelly Life Subscriber

    Jan 2006
    11,633

    Where does this come from?
    The argument is extremely confusing. The suggestion that supporters of breastfeeding represent some sort of organised fascist conspiracy is a bit far fetched....no

  9. #9
    Registered User

    Jul 2005
    Sydney
    7,896

    I am really offended by how this "article" decries the use of the word nazi and then proceeds to apply it directly to bfing advocacy. Offensive on so many levels.

    I completely agree that nazi should not be misused. I don't see how pointing out how misused it is and then proceeding to do so yourself is acceptable. And don't get me started on how flawed the comparison to bfing advocacy is. By this reckoning all advocacy groups fit the same mould.

  10. #10
    Registered User

    Dec 2007
    Victoria
    7,260

    A prime example of what happens when you get carried away with a thought process in the middle of writing an argument....and what happens when you *don't go back and rein the tangent it.
    This is one of the most difficult to follow and nonsensical arguments I have read in a long time. Don't even get me started on factual inaccuracies of what they have written either.

    A case of "a little knowledge..."?
    What a load of tripe.
    Last edited by LimeSlice; April 28th, 2012 at 11:29 AM. : *

  11. #11
    Registered User

    Jul 2008
    Balnarring, Vic
    1,900

    This doesnt make sense. Dont call them nazis, just compare them to nazis?



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    Last edited by loulabelle; April 28th, 2012 at 07:47 PM.

  12. #12
    Senior Moderator

    Nov 2004
    Chickens.
    4,989

    Please read Godwin's Rule of Nazi Analogies.

    Godwin's Rule. It rocks.

  13. #13
    Registered User
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    Mar 2010
    Melbourne
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    I am not weighing into the argument but the whole title of the argument reads why we shouldn't use the term breastfeeding nazis (except when we should). Kind of helps explain the tangent of the article.

  14. #14
    BellyBelly Life Subscriber

    Jan 2006
    11,633

    That's the whole title? but where does this come from? source?

    I also take issue with the use of "best", "Supremacy", etc, etc - breast milk is the normal (yes, biologically normal, sorry if you don't like that whoever it was that wrote this article) way to feed a human child and breastfeeding is a normal part of rearing children (because it isn't actually just nutrition). And when we examine biological outcomes - health, morbidity, etc - we should take this as our starting point for comparison.
    Breastfeeding does not confer any advantages or benefits on children. However not breastfeeding does entail risks and disadvantages.
    The author says we need to make informed decisions free of fear. How about being free of slander - fascists! - and free of sugar-coated untruths like the "benefits of breastfeeding"?

    The reason that some people feel very strongly about this is because they actually want to help other mothers. They want to help mothers avoid the pitfalls, feel supported and get the help that they need. No matter how many times I hear "Oh, it doesn't matter as long as your baby is fed" I know this is not true - I know it because we simply wouldn't have these conversations if it didn't matter. And advertising and marketing lies, and heath professional's ignorance and lack of support from families and all these things make a big difference to whether a mother breastfeeds and whether her baby receives breast milk and so these things matter too.

    Perhaps some people think that makes me a fascist I don't see it myself.

    ETA - oh never mind, I found the blog
    Last edited by onthefly; April 28th, 2012 at 04:05 PM.

  15. #15
    Life Subscriber

    Jul 2006
    Brisbane
    6,683

    Sure. Just keep helping the formula companies make more money by making the people who are trying to support mums and give them options seem like bad guys. Not even just bad, but deliberately evil. Yep, keep these articles coming. Stirring up anti-breastfeeding sentiment is exactly what we need as a society.

    Oh and as my 7 year old says "don't listen to mummy, that was sarcasm".

  16. #16
    Registered User
    Add Starfish on Facebook

    Apr 2007
    Sydney
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    I don't get the point of the article... Really, I am trying to comment but the whole thing doesn't even make sense to me. I guess the thing that makes me go "whatever" is when the author starts slagging off Dr Sears when it seems clear that she has never read anything he's written... Poorly researched article, and I can't even say that "at least it invites debate and gets people talking" because I really don't understand the point that the author is trying to make...

  17. #17
    Registered User
    Add Shades on Facebook

    May 2008
    Capalaba, QLD
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    I think it was a little confused but what I got out of it was "Don't call lactivists Nazis because the Nazis were true evil etc" and also "This is why some people do call lactivists Nazis - maybe the way breastfeeding is promoted needs to subtly change so that the analogy isn't so easily made"

  18. #18
    Registered User

    Oct 2008
    675

    I think it was a little confused but what I got out of it was "Don't call lactivists Nazis because the Nazis were true evil etc" and also "This is why some people do call lactivists Nazis - maybe the way breastfeeding is promoted needs to subtly change so that the analogy isn't so easily made"
    This is basically what I got from it also, we shouldn't use the term nazi, and at the same time don't give people ammunition to want to call you that.

    I am an avid supporter of BFing, but really despise the way the extreme lactivists go about getting their message across. I often use the phrase 'you attract more flies with honey than vinegar' with lactivists, but at the end of the day I know this doesn't really hit home with them because they don't care about attracting flies, they aim to deliver vinegar to those that walk a different path to them (by choice or due to circumstance). I have no time for that approach.

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