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Thread: BF and FF

  1. #1

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    Default BF and FF

    I have a 8 day old newborn. He is great, but unfortunatly I dont think he could be getting enough milk from my boobs. I want to breastfeed for as long as possible though. I have tried expressing and hardly anything comes out when I do and I express at least every 2-3 hours throughout the day and night. He latches on the boob great but only sucks for maybe 5 mins each boob until he pulls off and i try latching him back on but doesnt want a bar of it. He then falls asleep but wakes up every half an hour to 45 mins cause he is hungry. The midwife told me a few days ago, that if he is hungry then give him as much BF as possible and maybe give him FF just to top him up. I have been giving him 1-2 bottles of FF each day/night just to get him through so he isnt starving.

    Im now at the point where I need to make my mind up if I should change to FF or keep going with BF? Is it ok to BF and FF (only 1-2 bottles throghout the day/night)? Will this make him sick? Do I change to FF all the time, just so I know he is feeding well? I seriously don't know what to do. Any Ideas? Also can anyone tell me if BF and FF is bad for him? At the moment I have been BF him throughout the day even if he does wake up every half an hour to an hour for a feed but giving him 2 bottles of FF at night which gets him through.

    Thanks


  2. #2

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    Congrats on the birth of you DS!

    I dont have any real answers for you hun, hopefully someone one does will pop in soon.

    Are u sure he is crying in hunger? how has his weight gain been, and his urine output when you haven't topped him up? In theory the more you bf the more milk you produce, how do your bb's feel, do you feel full? how do they feel after a feed still full or are they more soft? are there any other inidcations he is not getting enough? don't rely too much on the amount you express, its not alwats and accurate indication of how much you have.

    Sorry i'm not much help, good on you for asking for advice, is there a lactation consultant or clinic you can visit for some support? i went to one when my DS was 12 days old and got some great advice and support to help me keep going!

    You're doing a great job and which ever way you decide to feed your baby just make sure you're comfortable with it.
    All the best xxx

  3. #3

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    From what you've said he sounds like he's getting enough milk, just must be an efficient feeder so doesn't need to suck for ages. When you say he doesn't want a bar do you mean he simply refuses and goes to sleep or he cries? If it's just refusal it's probably because he's full. Remember he's only 8 days old, his tummy is about the size of a golf ball so he doesn't needs lots. All newborns sleep differently, I had a frequent waker too, I fed him every 45mins for the first month. Once your supply settles down his sleeping will get better, the hard work pays off I promise My advice would be to ditch the formula and just breastfeed every time, that is the best way to establish an abundant supply of milk. By giving him a bottle you're making him less reliant on your milk and it will dwindle. Your baby will always be the most efficient at draining your breasts so what you can express is no way reflective of your supply.

    As long as he has plenty of wet nappies, gaining weight and is generally content, then he is getting enough. Please don't doubt your abilities to breastfeed, it sounds like you're doing a great job. With a little support and encouragement you can feed him for as long as you like! Keep the ABA number (1800 mum2mum) handy if you ever need someone to talk to.

  4. #4

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    Congratulations on the birth of your son!
    Have you seen a lactation consultant? That would be my first suggestion - getting expert, one-on-one advice from someone (often the midwives, child health nurses, gps etc aren't very hlepful or knowledgable). Also, you can always call the ABA helpline ( 24 hours, 7 days) on 1800-686-2-686.

    Yes, of course you can do both. You don't have to do all one or the other.
    To increase your chances of breastfeeding in the longer term, it is generally better to limit or eliminate (if possible) all formula. Although it works well for some mums, many find that the formula use can affect their supply and may also lead to babies 'choosing' the easier bottle over the breast at some poitn (often 3-5 months).

    He is still very little, so will need to feed very frequently - 8-12 feeds per 24 hours would be about the minimum. You will find that this decreases very quickly in the coming weeks.
    Can you tell us some more about his birth, any jaundice, how many wet & dirty nappies? Did he lose much weight at day 3 and has he gained much since then?

    Young babies like to be at the breast a lot. I mean, seriously, a LOT. most mothers are completely unprepared for this and will interpret frequent feeding or fussiness at the breast as meaning they don't have enough milk, but it doesn't always mean that at all.

    At this point your supply is largely driven by hormones, but in the coming weeks that will level out and supply will be driven by demand. The more you remove from the breast (ie, that your baby drinks) the more you will make. Frequent feeding (and emptying of the breast) is the best thing for your supply. Giving formula will replace some portion of this demand and affect your supply accordingly (it doesn't necessarily mean you'll run out of milk entirely however!) Feeding overnight is particularly good for supply, btw, so I would be wary of replacing overnight feeds.

    Another thing to be aware of is that the amount you get from a pump means absolutely nothing about your supply. A lot of women have trouble getting milk out with a pump, but their baby's are still perfectly well fed. If expressing is not working well for you, put the pump away and don't worry about that for now - you can come back to it later once things settle down if you want to.

    Being a mummy is a lot of hard work - I hope that you have lots of help at home so you are able to rest as much as possible and just concentrate on settling in with your new baby.

  5. #5

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    He sounds like a fabulous little boy - and loves his boob. I agree with what others have said. It sounds like he is getting plenty of milk at the breast - and there doesn't sound like there is any need for formula top ups. Unfortunately, formula top ups generally mean breastfeeding finishes sooner than the mother would ideally want - and most mothers stop because they find it hard to believe they are making enough milk.
    Baby sleep cycles are about 20-40 mins in length - babies will come into a lighter phase of sleep at this time, and will need to be held and cuddled back to sleep, but not always fed. It's not the case that babies only wake and cry when they are hungry - they can do this for a lot of reasons - lonliness, boredom, wet or dirty nappy. they have a great need to be with their mum or dad. Understanding how babies work can give you a whole different perspective on what they are trying to tell you.
    Any breastmilk you give your baby is fabulous. Some mums must give a little formula and this can work fine too - the breastmilk helps baby digest the formula. Unfortunately, it can have a nast habit of "creeping in" more and nore

  6. #6

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    Kimmy – thank you, We was weighed on day 5 which was 3.12kgs and his birth weight was 3.18kgs.
    My boobs don’t feel full, well I don’t think they do. The midwife said they are meant to feel really hard like getting a boob job done lol but it surly hasn’t felt like that at all, they are still soft.


    Marcellus – He birth was great no complications and no jaundice. He weighed 3.18kgs and 46cm, but at day 5 they weighed him and he was 3.12kgs. He seems to feed great on formula but when it comes to my boobs, he seems to not get enough. He was tongue tied at birth and because he wasn’t latching etc, we got it cut and he seems to be latching on great now but still wont feed as much.


    Barb – thank you as well. It was hard work being a new mum. I just want the best for my son and hate seeing him sad. Im working on just using breastmilk and also going to the docs to see what they think if I need a supplement to bring more milk in. I want to breastfeed for as long as possible.


    Thanks you all for the advice, it has helped a lot. I will continue to breastfeed for as long as I can.

  7. #7

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    Deana, you are doing beautifully! That loss doesn't even really rate as a loss in my books - 60gms could just be one big poo LOL! So you have done really well feeding him if by day 5 he had only lost that much. And some women wont always have that really hard boob job feeling either - so that was a bit of a furphy that you were told because it set you up to expect something to happen and when it didn't, you doubted yourself. When you are feeding him so often, you may not get that rock hard engorged feeling because he is draining it so well. If you went more than a few hours without feeding him I am sure you would look like Dolly Parton! And don't use pumping amounts as a guide either, because pumps are nowhere near as efficient at getting milk from the breast as what your baby is so don't use expressed milk as a guide to how much you really have.

    If it were me, I would be putting him to the breast every time, perhaps even have a bath with him and feed him there to create a more relaxed environment and not use the bottle at all. Afterall, you have only known each other for such a short time and great relationships need time to develop

    ETA - I forgot to say too that maybe try putting him in bed with you at night. That way if he is wakeful, you are already in bed together and you can put him straight on the boob and if it is only comfort he needs, he will have a quick suck or none at all and will settle back down after a bit of a cuddle. And if he wants a feed it is easier than getting out of a warm bed to make a bottle
    Last edited by Trillian; September 24th, 2010 at 09:15 AM. Reason: spelling

  8. #8

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    Deana, you are doing a great job! Unfortunately you've been given some bad advice.

    Trust yourself! Your body knows what to do, it will make just the right amount of milk for your DS. Just put him to the breast whenever he is hungry and the rest will sort itself out In the early days if DD so much as looked at me I put her on the boob, lol, I think she spent most of her first month there, it was my solution to everything in the early days when I was learning to be a mum. Did you know it only takes your breasts around 20mins to refill after a feed? There will be plently of milk for him even if he's feeding very frequently, that's totally normal. As long as he's having lots of wet and dirty nappies he is getting enough, that is the best indicator.

    Great job and welcome to mummyhood! It can be stressful but you're gonna love it!!

  9. #9

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    I would drop the expressing for the moment hun. Wait until your boobs have a groove, or you have more confidence. I found it very stressful so I left it until later - it was heaps easier after a few weeks.

    Maybe have a boob n bed day. Stay in bed and feed, relax and drink lots of fluid.

  10. #10

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    Deana, you're nearly there
    Don't worry about how your boobs feel, ok? If your baby wants to feed, feed him. Keeping him near to you (and a day in bed is an excellent idea!) is a great way forward for now. Try, please, try to put everything else aside and just concentrate on being with your baby. I don't know what support you have at home? Please take any help you can get.

    One other thing - wanting to be at the breast all the time is normal. It doesn't mean he isn't getting enough milk. Drinking down a whole bottle of forumula doesn't necessarily mean he's hungry either - the flow is quite difficult for them to control and they tend to just drink it, hungry or not. Then they fall asleep - it's the christmas-lunch effect.

    The best person for advice on breastfeeding issues is a qualified lactation consultant (or else an ABA counsellor).

    All the best

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