For the first time, breastfeeding is hard :(

[Ladylove]

If you think you can see tongue tie, def. get it looked at by a pro, if it is that then once it's fixed, and DS has had time to get a feel for / adjust to his 'new' mouth (and once you have healed) things should improve quickly. Also see a LC. Big hug in the meantime, DD didn't have tongue tie but had latch and position issues and I too went through a fear of pain/dread phase. It is very disarming emotionally/mentally.

[onthefly]

Where are you Teeki? Is there an ABA group out there you could contact? Have you looked on lcanz.org? Otherwise I hope you can get on to someone. Don't wait, it's not likely to get better by itself (or it would have already).
The only other suggestion I would have is trying baby-led/laid-back nursing to see if that helps (if you haven't done that already).

[Teeki]

Thanks everyone.

I've got an appointment to get his tongue checked at his 4 month check up next Monday. Thankfully we now have a wonderful Dr who I really trust so I think if his tongue is causing problems she'll be able to help. DH remembers our midwife mentioning the tongue tie and saying it's only minor, but if it causes problems to get it looked at. I mustn't have been paying attention because I don't remember it but he says that's the only reason he knows anything about tongue tie lol.
If that's a problem for him and it needs to be snipped, how do they do that? At 4 months does he get anesthetic? Do the nurses there doing his injections do it or do we need a hospital referral? Neither of us like the idea of it, the injections are bad enough.

I wasn't able to get onto an LC yet, I'll try again tomorrow morning. I've had a look at that site MadB and there's one that looks like she'd come out here. I think there used to be a more local ABA group but there were very few members, now there's just one closer to the city. Because things were so simple with DD I went and let my membership lapse. If I can't get directly onto the LC though I'll give them a call, I'm still getting their emails.

After he woke from his nap he fed four times. I offered the right first every time because it doesn't hurt much, but he kicked up a big stinky every time I tried the right and then when I swapped to the left he got all excited and latched straight on. The first three weren't too bad, it actually hurt less each time. Then the fourth time he closed his mouth a bit just before latching, sucked right on and pulled Mega ouchies and blood

So now he's had a bath, he's exhausted and hungry, poor bugger. He's having a feed and going to sleep on the right which feels fine, but when he's done he's going to want the left too before bed. I just hope the lansinoh and leaving it out has helped enough for that.

[onthefly]

If there's a TT, then I'd suggest getting it snipped immediately, regardless of whether it's considered minor or not. To me it sounds as though there is likely some sort of physiological problem here. Some peads do it, or dentists, or LC may be able to help - you'll need to ask/call around. At this age, I believe it's a quick snip, no anaesthesia, but you'll have to ask them. If you can, maybe also get an experienced LC (or some other health professional with experience in lactation) to check for posterior tongue tie and lip tie, also, to also rule these out.

It's good to bear in mind that even if TT is the issue and you get it snipped, it can take a while for baby to relearn to latch without the tie, so it may not be an immediate fix (but it should get better with time). A skillful LC can help you with this process.

Aside from trying baby-led attachment, you could also consider seeing a chiro or osteo, in case there's some other non-mouth related issue. I don't know if there's anyone near you who has expertise with babies? It's something some mums find useful in these cases.

[Teeki]

Thanks MadB. We always do baby-led attachment, from the start he didn't quite get it and needed help. At about a week old it kind of clicked for him and now I basically get it out and he does his thing lol. It felt odd at times but with a bit of correcting he was ok, now I'm really regretting not making more of a fuss about it, I just thought he wasn't opening up enough and it'd get better as he got older and bigger.

If I can get onto the LC tomorrow, how much could she go through on the phone? And how long is usually to an appointment? I'm a bit over an hour north of Adelaide. If she recommends getting it looked at earlier I'll go in to the hospital to speak to a pead I reckon. I don't think waiting a week is a good idea.

There is an osteo in the city recommended by a friend, she took her DD there, and there's one who looks at children and babies back where I used to live, half an hour away. If I still need help after this I'll give them a go.

Thankfully tonight he didn't want/need the second side. It might mean he wakes for a feed earlier but right now I'm happy I get a little more healing time.

ETA: Spoke too soon. Snuck in to change bras and he was in there poking his tongue at and just looking around at the room. Thankfully latching on wasn't quite as toe-curling as I was imagining and once he's going it's ok. At least now I have an excuse to watch The Block instead of going for a jog lol.

Also, DH is hating watching me feed right now (and listening to the swearing that goes with it lol) and wants to help. He remembered nipple shields from our ante-natal classes with DD - would these help short term or just cause separate problems? If tonight is anything like last night then by morning I'll be desperate.

[onthefly]

The LC can talk you through what you've done so far and where you're at. She may also be able to give you further referrals for releasing TT, if you want that. As for apt times, it really varies. Don't understate the pain you're in when you talk to her Don't suggest it's getting better. Just tell her how it is for you when you feed; hopefully she'll be able to see you soon.
You could try shields - this is another thing LCs can work with you on. It's important if you're using them to a) still be looking at underlying issues b) make sure you get the right size and use them correctly (or can cause more issues) c) make a plan for stopping them (and obviously, this would hopefully dovetail with fixing the actual problem). At this point it may well be worth a try! Pharmacies often stock several brands - it might be worth getting a few to see which suits you best. It's hard to know about sizes, which is where the LC can come in, as well as trouble shooting their use and help with weaning off them.
I'm a big believer in making appointments just in case and then cancelling them if you no longer need them, so that's an option with the osteo (and anyone else you reckon might be able to help).
Sometimes mums can muddle through and things just get better, but it really just shouldn't be like this, you know? If your baby is latching themselves and still not getting it, then there's something else that needs addressing. Babies are born to breastfeed, it's what they want and need, and when they can't, there's a reason why. Good luck with your calls tomorrow.

[Cassius2]

DD2 had a posterior TT and we took her to an osteo and had fabulous success. i took her to someone in fitzroy...am happy to PM you her details if ya want