Elective C-Section Question...

[Pandora]

I think fear can be a very valid reason. I know a number of people who've had late losses (one who's baby was stilborn at 39+5 due to cord complications) who just don't want or cant face a VB after that. I am sure there are others who can, and thats great.

I just don't think that fear, particulary when caused by past birthing trauma, can be trivialised or put in the same category as convenience.

I wouldn't choose a c/s willingly, its my biggest fear WRT pregancy, but I think just as I am entitiled to that choice, just as womend should be entitled to a VBAC, women should be able to choose an elective c/s.

I agree that its important to have all the facts and statistics like you have said. I also agree that major surgery is not something to be taken lightly.

But its still my choice thats important, and for me, being empowered to choose for myself, to make an educated choice, is more important than what I choose.

[Kirsty77]

I'm sorry I thought I was allowed a choice with regards to child birth. I must be living in different old fashioned world where I HAVE to have a natural drug free birth. I thought this day in age that If I wanted to ahve a scheduled c./s and sample every drug avail during child birth I could.

[bailey99]

I am interested to know apart from medical emergencies like placenta previa, what would be the reason for an elective section other than fear, oh convenience may be one I suppose.

Once you've looked at all the facts and evidence, what would make you ignore it except fear of childbirth?

Lisa Barrett

I admit, I decided on an elective cesarean for my son 3 days before he was born as I was scared. Scared for me and my baby. My very pro-natural birth midwife even recomended it to me as my son was very large (5.5kg) and she was afraid I would have complications too. 6 weeks before my sons birth, an aquaintance had a large baby also and he got stuck, did not breathe for several minutes and is now extremely brain-damaged. This also fuelled my fear. I know that this does not happen often, just because a baby is large, but that to me was a decision I made with the knowledge that I had. I chose another cesarean for my daughter as she had passed away and I was again scared. Scared to deliver my dead baby. So I guess you could say that I chose both of my cesareans out of fear, but I am happy with those decisions, I chose them as they were right for me. Of course I am disapointed that I have not and probably will never have a vaginal delivery, but I am glad that we live in a time where we can make decisions for ourselves.

[nic]

What about the women who don't have access to VBAC supportive OB's/midwives/GP's etc...

What about women who were raped?
Do they not have a valid reason for an elective c/s? What ever happened to "Your body your choice"?

Nic

[Inanna]

Oh Lisa, I have only just read your post...

I am a woman who has pushed out 5 babies through her vagina... I have had empowering and beautiful birthing experiences four of those times...
I have also been with many many women at home and in hospital as they birthed their babies. Some of those babies were born vaginally and some were born via surgery...

I agree that women need information... In order to make good decisions we need to independently seek out the truth. Information, education it's empowering...
I don't think there is a woman in here who would disagree (though feel free to! )

Women choose c/s for many reasons. We don't know what is happening for every woman. You don't know what is happening in my head when I say I just can't do this. I just can't push out a baby... It may be fear and that fear it may be possible to work through with support/counselling and time. Or maybe it can't. Or maybe I can't. Or maybe I haven't the energy. But it's valid. When I pushed my 1st baby out I was 9cms for many many hours. This I believe was fear. Yes, I worked through it but would I have been less of a woman had I not??? Of course not. Do you know if I was sexually abused and just unable to push? Do you know if I was afraid of my environment? My care provider? Was I too hot? Too cold? These are all reeasons that labour halts.

I am pregnant for the 11th time. I have said goodbye to 6 babies. The last baby that passed through my vagina was dead. Am I afraid of labour because of this experience? Man, I am not sure? I am not sure if I can do it. I am gonna try because it's what I want for my baby, my body and my soul. If I can't I will be disappointed - but I have lived through enough to know that it's not the end of the world... Should I be told I am fearful if I chose to have a c/section??? Who has that right? That is my path, my journey. My growth...

Why is it so unacceptable to have fear of childbirth? It's bloody scary! I was scared when I did it the first time. Actually each time it's time to push I feel afraid... Without that fear I don't know how real we would be... Some folk can deal with the fear and push. Some can't. They are no less a woman...

I AM an advocate for natural birth as many of you know. However, before that I am an advocate foor woman and choice. That choice I always hope and pray is made from an educated perspective... But each woman has their own journey on this wonderful trip to motherhood... We need to love and support each other and treat each other gently and carefully...

I certainly make different choices to some of you... Please Lisa consider that we are not all made the same way... We all come from different backgrounds, life experiences, pains and joys. That is what often shapes how we make thsoe decisions...

[bailey99]

Flowerchild. Words of wisdom yet again.

[kellyann]

I have had 3 c/s 1 emergency and the other two elective but let me tell you it was very hard to convince my doctor why I wanted my first elective c/s even after having my first child born via emergency c/s. All 3 went well though and recovery was as expected ( hard and painful) but the midwives in the public hospital were a lot nicer than the ones at the private in my opion any way, it sounds strange to some but i think i got alot more help and support in the public hospital.

[Adnil]

I have had an elective C/S for reasons other than fear or medical neccesity. You may not agree with my reasons, but I have had health issues that would have been made much worse by having a natural birth (that was my thinking at the time, it's different now, but that's off topic). In the end, I chose what I believed to be right for ME. That is all any of us can do, just as with parenting, we may choose different ways to do it, but we are informed & we do what we believe is best for us in our situation.

I don't think anyone here is trying to make elective C/S sound like a better option, or one to choose without a lot of thought. We are simply bringing our experiences & sharing them with each other - what better way to learn & make informed decisions than to discuss with others who ahve BTDT.

In the end the most important thing here is that we offer both advice & support to each other.

[sirhokko]

To me choice in birth is do I birth at home or at hospital. Choosing to have your body cut open for no good reason other that you want to shouldn't really be an option.

I'm not trying to trivialise anyone's feeling around birth and I don't feel the need to talk through my obstetric history to make a point. This is not personal it's about good sold information and safety. Advocates of natural birth don't normally say that elective section is a good option for some people. I'm sure having supported many woman at home ( you must be a homebirth midwife) then you can appreciate the significance of birth.

It sounds to me like everyone here has made their decision so discussion is pretty pointless, unless everyone says it's ok you don't want to hear it.
Lisa Barrett

[Adnil]

Lisa, that's just the point though, you say that TO YOU the choice in birth is to birth at home or at hospital - that's fine - no-one is saying that is wrong. But TO OTHERS, that is not necessarily the options before them. I don't think it is fair to say

Choosing to have your body cut open for no good reason other that you want to shouldn't really be an option.

No-one is doing for no good reason. There are very good reasons, they just aren't ones you agree with...that's fine, but don't assume everyone is the same as you. It really does come across as judgemental.

[Cherie]

I am interested to know apart from medical emergencies like placenta previa, what would be the reason for an elective section other than fear, oh convenience may be one I suppose.

I had an elective c/section. My waters broke, 3 days later I was still not in labour. I agreed to an induction (knowing the risks, and having delayed it for a period of time that I was comfortable with, but longer than what my OB would have preferred). After 8 hours of induction, I still had no contractions that I could feel, and my cervix was not dilating over that period of time. The baby's head was not vertex, but sideways, bypassing my pelvic outlet.

I wasn't afraid of childbirth. Quite the opposite - I feel ripped off that I didn't get to experience it. It certainly wasn't for convenience sake (if timing was an issue, I wouldn't have waited so long before agreeing to be induced).

So I chose an elective c/section. I wasn't in danger. The baby wasn't in danger. But the baby also wasn't coming out. Perhaps I could have waited another week or two after the failed induction to see what would happen.. but to be honest, the risks with that were unknown to me. I had 2 internals by the stage, thereby increasing the risk of infection, and was unaware of the risks of having had IV syntocinon without a labour/birth eventuating, as this doesn't seem to be a common occurence. Whereas I was well educated about the risks of a c/s. I chose the known risks over the unknown risks.

Not fear, not convenience, and not a medical emergency ... but my choice, and an educated one too.

[Inanna]

I have been around a while and count amongst my friends many many midwives, some obs and many woman advocates... I totally disagree that you can't be an advocate for natural birth but understand why c/section is a choice for some women. I really don't know how you can be an advocate for women and not understand that. But that is me and I am coming from my place. Your place clearly is very different.

There are very few women who front up and say: I want a csection without their own reasons. Do I always agree??? Absolutely not - sometimes it's very difficult to truly see why a person makes certain decisions... Would I try and explain the pros and cons - absolutely I would with gentleness and respect... Would I say well you're wrong for choosing this birth choice??? Not in a million years. Because I have seen so many times why women make their choices... Some women can share... Some women want to grow through it and work through it and choose to birth vaginally. Some women grow and work through it and choose to birth via surgery...

Do I think c/section should be less available? mmmm I think that all women should be given the facts without sugar coating... I think all women should be offered continuity of care with a midwife of their choice (this alone cuts c/section rates...) Do I think that women who have a natural, well supported vaginal birth have more satisfaction with their birthing experience. Well in my experience yes. However, I have supported a woman who had a previous still birth with her c/section and never have I seen a more empowered enraptured glowing mother...

However, we need to understand that we are not all made the same way Lisa. Some of us choose to grow in other ways. Birth isn't a competition that needs to be won. If you get that vaginal birth you have made it! No, if you feel empowered, in control, educated than you have made it... I do think that vaginal birth where it is safe and emotionally possible is a safer more satisfying option for most women.

I do lament that in our country the availability of a c/section is more ready than that of a water birth... But that's a whole other thread...

This is about supporting women who have made an informed decison. It is a growth thing (I believe) to be able to do that even when it may be a decision you may not make for yourself...

Be gentle with other women Lisa, we need each other for this long parenting journey that only just begins with the pregnancy...

ETA: I am NOT a homebirth midwife... And, I felt the need to recount my birthing history as it's relevant I believed... I think it's important to share our stories... It shows where we all come from...

[sirhokko]

It may come over as judgemental, but it's actually only factual evidenced based reasoning. I don't assume that everyone is the same as me at all. Quite obviously I can see that none of you are like me at all.

It's worrying however that unless we all say, yes this is ok, whatever you all like on this forum you are seen as judgemental or unreasonable. All anyone wants to hear is yes that's a great option for you and your baby, yes we understand what you've done yes it's ok to make these choices. In in reality most people don't actually think this at all. Only others who are making the same choices. If everyone reads the facts and then still would put themselves and their baby at risk ( 4 times more risk than normal birth) then I think there is every reason to question why that is and what is happening in society to fail these women.
Lisa Barrett

[aussienic]

I was given a choice the day my waters broke with my second son. We knew he was going to big. our biggest concern was his shoulders getting stuck.. My husband nor I were willing to risk it even though I was terrified of a c.s and had been fighting with the Drs for weeks as to why I wanted a natural delivery. It wasn't bad nor something to be afraid of. Before I was even pregnant with my 3rd we made the decision to have another c/s and the same went for our 4th.

I know I am medically capable of delivering a baby naturally but I choose not to..

One is the pain.. I don't want to go through it (yes I have had a natural delivery, was textbook according to my mw)

two is the planning.. time off from work son from school ect

three (for us) is knowing that my child will be born safely.. yes I know the risks involved but i feel the risks are more related to me not the baby. both my c.s babies were in special care. 1st was for completely unrelated reason and my second I think he had fluid on the lungs that weren't expelled during labour. but that was resolved quickly. He also had low blood sugars due to me having GD.

I think when someone asks a question about an elective c.s then unless you have had one you should probably stay out except maybe to share your positive experience with a natural delivery. Say how you were scared and made it great..

[sirhokko]

Well Thanks Aussienic Are you telling me to shut up?

Lisa Barrett

[aussienic]

No not at all.. Just more how about share your positive experience instead of telling her how bad a c/s is.. Give her something else to focus on

[Adnil]

It's worrying however that unless we all say, yes this is ok, whatever you all like on this forum you are seen as judgemental or unreasonable. All anyone wants to hear is yes that's a great option for you and your baby, yes we understand what you've done yes it's ok to make these choices.

I don't think anyone here is expecting everyone to agree with them. This discussion has already had people bringing up the cons of C/S - and I definitely agree that there are many! But all that is asked is that the approach is one that suppots others, instead of judging them. I feel you are judging others. The fact that you say "Quite obviously I can see that none of you are like me at all." shows to me that you are being judgemental. The funny thing is that I am in agreeance with quite a lot of what you are saying, but I don't like the way you are saying it.

[Kirsty77]

Totally agree Nic.Unless you've had a c/s then its not your place to comment. Its unfair, I wouldn't go into a vaginal birth thread or question and give advice.