What a damn fine idea.... exactly what I have in mind. Cheers to that :D:
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What a damn fine idea.... exactly what I have in mind. Cheers to that :D:
I was in hospital with my DS when this thread was "live" so have just stumbled across it. I'm really impressed :) Such a wealth of insight. On the whole I agree with the sentiment that BB provides an invaluable medium of expression for so many taboo and controversial topics ( :clap: Lori). Sure we all come here for differing reasons... some to just have a bit of fun, a joke or two, some come because we are lonely in our role of stay at home parent, some come to be educated, some for a bit of mental stimulation and sadly some come with sole purpose to vent to the point of making someone "pay" for their own personal miseries. Whatever the reason BB most definitely deals with it all and US all professionally.
Regarding the original post. I tend to agree with Maya. Whilst it was an interesting article I wouldn't call it "information" as such... more "opinion based on experience". Like Maya said, ok, it might be hair splitting but I think the subtle difference is important. I feel that information is objective and opinion is subjective. BellyBelly has a wealth of information in it's article section... the forums can also be a source of information but call me a snob but i like my info cross referenced with credit given to the source LOL I think that many people get confused about what real information is these days... with all the info-tainment and tabloid reporting that is passed as quality reporting no wonder the defition is blurred. But I tell you what... BB does encourage its members to be discerning consumers of information. :thumbsup:
Another another great point has been raised: with choice comes responsibility... (I kinda want to start a devoted thread about it). Anyone who has ever shopped for breakfast cereal knows how frustrating it can be to be given a choice!!! An aisle longer than than your average suburban street and you still don't know which packet to put in the trolly! It's because you know that your should be reading all those "Nutritional Information" labels... how much sodium? How much Sugar? How guilty are you going to feel if the one you select gets the frown of disapproval next time your mother visits? What's best for "Food Miles" (the environment). What's affordable? Where has it been made? (Do I trust that country?). How many preservatives? Is it genetically modified? The list goes on... But everyone says how wonderful choice is! Bloody stressful more like it! I'm NOT saying choice is bad BTW it's vital. But you can't have your cereal and eat it ;) You want choice then you have to also accept the role of choosing responsibly. That was the deal Eve accepted when she bit that apple... no more blissful ignorance for us! *insert equally valid analogy from your belief system*. And this is exactly why we need sites like BB to navigate the maze of choices that are put before us in life.... from birth to choosing which bench-top mixer! Some people have accused this navigation as "over analysing", maybe, but like Kelly said mentioned: that's how the female brain is wired and I believe it serves a purpose.
It's been a great read people :)
I think this would be a fantastic thread to branch off on and focus on.:
Also, your analogy was spot on!
Moving this to the birth/labour forums - I think this is well and truly a discussion in relation to c/s :)
Good idea Kelly.... I don't often venture into the Men's Forum (unless they are chattin' about Footy LOL) and it kinda reinforces Suse's point that you do have to consider the area of the Forum that you are in when you post. I was wondering whether I should have been more respectful of the male perspective... IYKWIM?
Thanks.........
Well I have had an interesting situation over the past few days but haven't been able to dedicate time to write about it...
I was contacted by a local woman who wants to birth her baby at a nearby (as there are no birthing services in our small town :wall: another thread!) public hospital. She wants a water birth. They don't offer water birth. She wants her family to stay with her. They won't allow it... What can we do? I heard a lot of "it's not fair" "it's not evidence based"... All true. However, she won't pay to have a homebirth or a birth at a nearby private hospital that encourages water birth.
She is being pressured into a c/section (she had one with her first birth)...
I was able to reflect on this thread in answer to her...
She has to make a decision about the type of birth she wants. If to her birth is a sacred rite & as such deserves to be made a priority... I know she believes it is. But right now in Australia you have to pay to get that... At least in these parts.
She was angry at the system, at the hospital, it was all unfair. And it is... However, there is no fairness in engaging a system you know won't support you! An alternative needs to be sought.
I offered to help with working through the anger and the blame. But I can't support decisions made out of trying to manipulate a system to give what it won't. I don't know if I make sense. But I can't support birthing in a tub when it's contrary to hospital policy. It is a negative energy in a sacred rite! I won't do it! I won't because it's not fair to the rite of birth... Nor is it fair to the care providers (in my opinion). It's not safe (IMO) I of course would support a VBAC - but the anger around where & how she can labour needs to be worked through. So, it brought up a lot for me about this thread. Where for her she wasn't grateful for her c/section. She was angry and is angry about it. She wants it different this time. But there is little choice unless she pays.
So, not everyone is grateful for their c/section - or in fact their vaginal birth! It's about the individual birth and how empowered a woman feels.
This Mama either needs to be responsible for her choice to birth in a place that won't agree to her requests (water birth) or she needs to find an alternative. Because that's what our system has come to. Right now we can't get the birth we want in every birthing place. We have to work to change the system and we are. However, to enter a birth expecting to get what is not offered is setting ourselves up for failure. A sense of failure and anger.
That unfortunately is our responsibility. It is our responsibility (I believe) to work to change this system so that our daughters & sons don't birth this way. But right now it's like going to Beijing and drinking the water - youre gonna get sick. Thinking you will get a water birth in a non water birth zone is setting yourself up for failure. That is the way it is.
Well said Inanna. Hence the outrage that women may not even be able to buy such a choice anymore with the changes to homebirth laws!
It is unjust that only those with the resources can get the birth they want; that some women without the resources to buy superior care have to accept birthing in an environment that is hostile or unsupportive towards her choices.
I feel for your friend. I hope she can work through her anger and set herself up for a more peaceful and positive birthing experience.
Deb, I repped you but I did want to say publicly what an awesome post that was.
:clap:
:yeahthat: so very true.:
However, to enter a birth expecting to get what is not offered is setting ourselves up for failure. A sense of failure and anger.
I was fortunate giving birth to my DD that I didn't need a csection and had a VB without any tearing or epi. As far as the birth itself went that was my main hope. I say hope rather than goal because I don't really feel it was fully within my control. Of course many other things happened which, in a perfect world would not happen next time.... synto drip, confined to bed, continuous monitoring, antibiotics, synto drip afterwards due to small PPH. DD was not breathing and required resus and was whisked off to NICU while I was left alone, bleeding and immobile in an empty room on a drip, not even my husband there, after the most overwhelming experience of my life. All in all I felt more processed than cared for, and subject to a process I was not able/ allowed to fully understand. As much as I would want the next experience to be different, having had a baby who needed specialist paediatric care at birth I don't think I could bring myself to give birth somewhere where that is not available. So it is likely I will have to face being processed in a similar way the next time. Which I can handle, but it would be nice if it could be different IYKWIM.
As for csections, many people swear by them and good luck to them. A friend of mine only has one complaint about her two csections, and that is that with her second pregnancy she had to endure a whole 45 mins of labour and that was 45 mins too long for her! What is sad though is those who feel they were railroaded into them, or otherwise did not get to make a choice, and struggle to come to terms with how their birth turned out. For myself I know I would be upset if after a long and painful labour I had to have a csection so I can understand that point of view completely.
I agree with all you have said trying to manipulate a system, hospital obstetrician to negotiate with them and think that you have equal power is crazy. It is what you see often though women think they will have a 'chat" with there Ob and that they feel they have a special relationship with them that they can get what they want. I even had one woman tell me she was having another c/s because her ob will remember what her insides look like WTF I almost fell over. He was suggesting she have the c/s before 36 weeks as she went into labout with a previous baby at 36 weeks I informed her of the increased risk of breathing difficulties and urged her to do some research she didn't went ahead with the scheduled c/s and baby was shipped out to a tertiary facility because of you guessed it breathing difficulties they were seperated for days as a result.:
I've been reading this thread but have not responded because as someone who's never had a c/s, I didn't think I had much to say.
However I will state that there was much pressure on me to have a c/s with my youngest son as he was in distress. Luckily because I knew a little about how births in hospital can be medicalised quite quickly, I asked for him to be monitored and was augmented instead, and I did manage a vaginal birth in the end. However, my husband was just about ready to divorce me because he was being led to believe that I was putting my baby's life at risk by asking to try to continue labour as opposed to agreeing immediately to a c/s. But that's a whole other story.
I am more interested in the comment about not having a choice, and the guilt associated with it. I had IVF to conceive my youngest son. I didn't have a choice as I simply cannot conceive naturally. Of the myriad of feelings I had about IVF, guilt about having to go down that route wasn't one of them. Why feel guilty about something you have no choice over?
So if you HAD to have a c/s, because there was no other choice, then guilt shouldn't be a factor. It's like saying I feel guilty that I'm Asian, or a woman, or alive even. No choice should equal no guilt.
That's why I don't get threads like this. If you had a c/s because you HAD to have one, how can anyone advocating vaginal birth make you feel bad? I know that nataural conception is preferable, has lower genetic defect rates, is cheaper, is how nature intended, but if I can't do it that way, why would any of that bother me?
And if I chose a c/s then why do I need to defend my decision to anyone? Because if you can be made to feel bad about your choice, then it obviously wasn't a very good, well-considered or defendable choice, was it?
So get over it, people. BB is trying to get a msg out there, a msg that it believes is for the benefit of womenkind in general. It's not about having a go at individuals about their personal choice (or lack thereof). Once you understand that, then we can all co-exist without all this unnecessary angst.
:yeahthat: Your last parapgragh absolutely hit the nail on the head Sush!!!
This thread pops into my mind often whenever i think about my Graves (thyroid) disease. Should i start a thread "In Praise of Graves" because of the way it has helped me loose all my extra weight that piled on in my pregnancies? Gee i can eat whatever i want and still see the kilos slide off... from 82 to 62 kilos in a matter of months... what woman wouldn't be thrilled? It has also given me huge spurts of energy as my metabolism flies like a motor on constant rev. Quite handy that.... but if i didn't also tell you that I am also at risk of a thyroid storm ie heart attack and complete organ failure i would be doing you a disservice. Maybe the hand-tremors, the muscle weakness, the hair loss (I'm talking clumps in the shower that make me feel like i have had chemo)...are all a small price to pay for looking as svelt as i have been?
Now my condition is largely managed by medication.... but I never quite know when i might have further issues down the track. One of the leading causes of an over active thyroid is having a baby... so guess you could consider it a complication of birth. Do I wish that i could have remained healthy but a bit fatter? Definitely... i could "praise graves" for it's very limited benefits but i don't think it would be that wise... because really, health is the better option, if given the choice.
Did I miss a post somewhere? The convo seems to have taken a corner..:
Me too.:
That's why I don't get threads like this. If you had a c/s because you HAD to have one, how can anyone advocating vaginal birth make you feel bad?
Same, those who have had to have c/s shouldnt have to justify the way we have birthed our babies.:
After being in labour for 3 days and unable to birth my baby during the pushing stage as she was stuck, I needed a c/s. All I wanted was my baby to arrive safe and sound and be healthy and survive and for myself to survive too. My 2nd c/s was also necessary but not emergency c/s. Why should we have to justify c/s for our babies?
No-one has to justify themselves to anyone. They FEEL they have to justify themselves because they think they are being made out to be inadequate or whaever. I think everyone in this discussion (apart from the odd outburst from randoms) has been respectful and its been a very interesting discussion, which we've all learnt something from.
You don't. I don't think anyone has insinuated that people who have a c/s need to justify it. Or that anyone should feel bad about needing or having a c/s. Overwhelmingly the posts in this thread are respectful of the fact that for some people, unnecessareans are upsetting, and for others, cesareans are a valid birth choice - each to their own, respect for informed birth choices, yadayada.:
.. Hasn't it?
BTW thanks to all the contributers to this thread, I for one have found it very thought provoking and interesting. And I've been inspired to post my positive c/s birth story, so hopefully I get some time to sit down and write it.
:
Nah sorry matie....I did :redface: hence me deleting the post......I shouldnt go back and reread previous post.....3 FIRM SMACKS FOR MAZ!!!!!!
It has been a very interesting thread. Mischa - the very point of the thread at the onset I believe was that people don't feel "guilty" for their choice to have a c/section! What has come to pass though is acceptance (at least by the majority) that people (myself included) don't speak about the beauty & sacredness of birth to stick it to those who have had a c/section...
That c/section saves lives & is absolutely necessary sometimes. One of the objectives of this wonderful site is to educate women (& men) on ways to acheive a natural birth. That c/section isn't as necessary as some believe and can often (but certainly not always) avoided. :hug:
Honestly I dont have a problem the way I birthed as I tried my best and unfortunately it wasnt to be. I agree it has been respectful in the most part, some posts of been a bit one sided, bot mostly all good its been interesting.:
Yes it has, and I agree most have been respectful as mentioned above. I didnt say anyone insinuated at all. For those who know me on BB (as belle (I have changed my name) know I am not a pusher of c/s at all, I only say do what you feel is best in your own situation.:
I understand this objective, and its a great one. For me, I am not a member of this community due to this objective though due to my experiences, I am a member of this community as I believe in gentle parenting and really benefit from the members thoughts and advice.:
i haven't read the responses, but just wanted to say that having had an emergency c-section first time around, and a VBAC 12 days ago, if i were to get pregnant again i would choose an elective c-section without hesitation.... i have found the recovery excruciating this time and am still having massive issues 12 days on... i feel like i haven't been able to care properly for my baby or toddler due to barely being able to move... when i left hospital after my c-section i wasn't even on pain killers... i'm still taking them today.
anyways just wanted to tell my story, as someone who has experienced both, for me the c-section is the only way i would ever have another child (not that we are planning on it though).
Emma1979 - I am sorry to hear about your VBAC experience. This is a great point that birth choices are exactly that - individual choices!
I've said it so many times before, but if the choice is informed AND right for your situation, then you need to make the decision and not feel guilt.
I think the original post's meaning was those that have to have or choose to have a c-section shouldn't carry guilt........one thing I was always made to believe and still do is that NO ONE can make you feel anything! You dictate your feelings on things.
You do what is right for you so long as you have your facts - and if a natural birth advocate is posting about why c-sections or other interventions are wrong for them, or posting about their fantastic natural birth - then that's them expressing their opinion and not personally attacking other birth choices.
I can't honestly say that I have come across a post yet on BB where someone has outwardly criticized someone else's birth choice - some strong opinions yes - but not criticism.
I've got a friend who is having an elective c-section in 10 days with her first baby. She asked me today if I thought she was "copping out". I told her it didn't matter what I thought, it mattered that she got all the facts in making her decision, pros/cons etc and most importantly in the end she feels like she had the birth experience she wanted.
Emma, sorry to hear about the trauma of your last birth. For me, my vaginal births meant being able to walk around right after birth, no painkillers and feeling like a lioness after. My sister, who had a c/s after two VBs, swears that her c/s was the worst thing ever - she was in pain for weeks and weeks after.
Just another example of how everyone's different, and how people react differently to different things.
Well after a while I thought I'd have another look at this thread as it's become a hybrid of many things.
To explain why I posted it? Because their is an excellent 'trick' in groups and even forums and even sunsets of community. The implied opinion.
Yes no one can make you "feel" anything. It's often a tool used in behavioural modification; to imply that change comes from within and false beliefs are your own. Granted and very useful in counselling and in lovely shiny textbooks, but remotely useful in life choices.
The we feel many things based on the environment we are in. Walk into a room at a party and "feel" the coldness. The perception may be wrong but for many it is real.
Sic
We have, after a massive effort, to move to formula feeding alone. It's interesting when in a parents room. No one will come out and verbalise anything against you making that choice (which is your own and no one else's) but there is an "atmosphere", that she's the odd one out.
I'm not posting to challenge the performance of BB dealing with CS. I appreciate the positive impact the site has for those making informed birth choices. I am also aknoweldging those who have had a journey that has affected them deeply. I hope that someday you are at peace with your feeling emotions and outlooks. I don't want to get into a further discussion about those I may have ignored or not been aware of.
Whether you agree or not, there are many in society who feel that their life choices are condemned not directly but by inference or even more subtle underpinnings.
There are parents who are left feeling guilty about their CS choice. Who caused it isn't so much the problem as the fact that they are. The fact that so much emphasis is placed on less interventional births, by exclusion the CS family and mother could be left unnecessarily questioning their choice.
Many minority and excluded groups in society are left to question their validity by societies unspoken "atmosphere". no one makes them feel this way but underlying attitudes can coerce emotions and choices
The simple notion of elective versus emergency give the connotation that unless you have a distressed baby with a slowing hear rate then every other CS is unnecessary.
Clearly this is wrong.
How about need versus not needed? Our CS was needed. An emergency? No. But no less necessary for the survival of our child.
Even the term "unnecessarean" that I see floating around websites could have a negative effect on some.
Why should they? To satisfy those who believe that there are too many CS being done? I shouldn't think so. How about worry about getting your own birth right for you and leave the decision making to us? A mother is no less a mother by the way her child arrives.
So I suppose that the point was that not every Caesarean mum does or needs to feel that their birth journey is a loss. It is not yours to influence despite the most noble of intentions. Not every mother/family needs to question their journey looking as though somehow they have failed. It was also meant to perhaps create some reflection on how your opinions can actually influence others positively and negatively.
So it was meant to be an uplifting post really for those that have been down the Caesar path.
It is interesting to read your observations SB. I know what it feels like to be aware that my choices are quite "unacceptable" or different to the mainstream. Birthing in water, homebirths and siblings in attndence is seen quite unusual in many many settings! Considering to have a c/section is a very acceptable birth choice in our country & waterbirth is banned in many centres I can see why that perception is so...
As for your partner feeling like an outsider as she is formula feeding. Again statistically she is in the majority - so even though she feels this way it's not evident with what we know happens in this country.
I agree with the inference of "normal"... I see thats what this forum is about. Removing the "normal" from c/section & replacing it with a homebirth being "normal".(just one example) Supporting women to breastfeed, to give factual and supportive evidence to women that is sorely lacking in our communities, family & society in general!
For statistically your wife having a c/section is "normal" and so is formula feeding. That is why we need to increase awareness and education. It's absolutely crucial to the women of today & tomorrow. When we "normalise" birthing and breastfeeding it becomes less fearful - without fear our bodies open... With milk, with babies, with lots of things!
Respectfully I don't share your belief that to own our feelings & reactions isn't plausable in life situations. I think when one feels guilt that comes from within... If it can be blamed on another somehow it alleviates responsibility for the feeler... But - granted it would seem I at least see it differently.
SB, you've obviously never been a breastfeeding woman in a parents' room... (he he!)
If you want your reality to be that of the condemned, then so be it. I could choose to feel condemned for my homebirth, especially every time a negative or twisted story comes out in the media and family and friends (well-meaning) tell me about it and question my choice. I know why I chose what I did and I am comfortable enough with that to explain in response to genuine questions. That's all that matters to me. I want that to matter to all birthing women - to know why they are choosing their path. Most women I knew before I gave birth the first time did NOT know specifically why they chose hospital births, only that it was the assumed 'option' and they never questioned it.
There is no desire or current perception to be the condemned. Quite the contrary. It's I suppose "awareness" and mindfullness of all.
And despite my man boobs I have yet to pefect the art of male breast feeding.;)
I agree, SB :) (no, not about the man boobs, haven't seen them to make my own conclusions!!) I think it's always a good idea to hang back and ask some caring questions about someone who's just told you they had a c-s, cos you don't know what she's feeling about it. Sometimes it's just not the right time to suggest that the medicos were unjustified, or that the medicos brought about the c-s in the first place. Some women take ages to be ready to hear this and if you tell them too soon they clam up or get very defensive, and it could very well feel like they brought it on themselves. That's why 'shoulding' people is not constructive. On the other hand, you may be talking to someone who weighed up all options, not just the ones convenient to a c-s and came to decide upon just that.
If you deal with people compassionately then adverse feelings they have really have far more to do with their side of things that what you have said or done.
Plus, if I were a person who had had a completely voluntary c-s, or was very much ok with my emerg c-s, or medically necessary c-s, I wouldn't care what others were saying about me cos I'm armed with one of my favourite tenets, "what others say about me behind my back is none of my business"! Every way I look at that, it's true. I realise lots of people just can't let go of what others say about them. What others THINK about me is even less under my control. What others think of my homebirth matters very little, because I was there and I know the score.
Anyhoo, I have to say I'm grateful you DID post, SB, cos a lot has been elicited and explored :)
Well said :clap::
You are right - there are a LOT of people that imply the natural, holistic approach in childbirth is the ONLY way a birth should pan out. I also agree that it is that silent atmosphere of expectation that contributes to birth disappointment.
My friend went through that very feeling. She knew she wanted an elective CS and when the time came for her decision she was faced with many people that threw at her it wasn't the "best way" for her or her baby.
Now if she wasn't as strong willed as she is, she could be pressured into giving in to the au natural approach to labour and birth and wind up with her own birth disappointment because it didn't meet her expectations or desires.
I've said before I am neither for nor against interventions at birth - I think the end result of happy and healthy mum and baby is the most important factor.
Ultimately it would be nice to have a country which supports any wish or plan of mum. Wouldn't it be nice if we had government funded homebirth as an option open to ALL women, private OB, hospital midwives and OB's as well as more choice in the public system on how women WANT to birth (so if someone wants to go to 44 weeks via the public hospital middies, they can! Or if someone wants an elective CS in the public system, it's given)
But while the power is in the hands of the government, less choice for women mean that more women are made to birth the way they don't want to. This ultimately will lead to birth disappointment as well and that isn't society's pressure - it is personal disappointment.
But surely not at a risk to the health of mother or baby?:
Should a woman who wants an elective CS at 35 weeks because she is 'over it' get one? Should a woman whose baby is at 44 weeks with placenta starting to fail, NOT be given a clear picture of what will happen should she refuse intervention?
I know they are OTT examples, I use them to try & make a point.
Yes ideally ALL women would be supported in any choice they make. But you would hope that those choices were informed & educated choices, that she fully understood all of the benefits and risks of what she was wanting to do.
You would hope that 'strong-willed' didn't mean 'close-minded' (and I'm not referring to your friend, just using your words ;)) - you would hope that a women making a particular choice was prepared to listen openly to gain a full understanding of what she is undertaking.
THAT is what BB is all about IMO - giving women that education & information so that when they make those choices, they do so being informed & knowing what they are doing.
It's not about making people feel cr** about their choices. It's about empowering those choices so that women are better able to make the right ones for them.
ETA - I post this as someone who has had 4 children, and really only became even a little bit informed when baking baby no.4. Do I wish I knew way back then what I know now? Hell yes!! If only I had had BB when I was PG with my first 3...
I concede that part of the reason I am so comfortable with my failure to BF my first two children, and with my induction & CS with umber 3, is due to the fact that I didn't know better. I am able to say 'oh well - I did the best I knew at the time' (and mean it). Maybe had I known more, I would feel more disappointed with how things went. But I would still rather have had the knowledge.
Well said Jasp :clap:
Like Maya I also think it's a great thread.... and as a BFing mum who simply desired to BF her child according to the WHO recommendations (to at least 2 years old) I can safely say that this is less socially acceptable than giving any child formula. I don't think any parenting group has the monopoly on negative opinions being directed at them ;) The great thing about BB is that there is a place here for everyone to have a cry when they have their turn at "coping it".
I think what it boils down to is that fully informing somebody is not implied opinion. It is simply fully informing somebody. I'd say the consequences of ignorance are worse than the consequences of being informed.
Great replies.
What really matters is that what ever choice someone makes, informed or otherwise, including the Mum who has had enough at 35 weeks, it is ultimately their choice. Not everyone wants to know it all; they have made their choices and that's it. Period. Respecting that is vital.
Unless it impacts on you, or your insight is asked for, you just have to let it go.
Hmmm.... not sure about that SB. BellyBelly's mission is to inform. If women want to remain uninformed then i would respectfully suggest they avoid BB. It's like going to school... sure the socialising thing is important... but if it's going to distract the people who want to be there to learn then those kids really need to take it elsewhere... time and place and all. ETA: just speaking for myself.
SB, I do think though that when you are truly happy with your choice you don't look for (or find) an atmosphere of disapproval.
I know there was outward disapproval about my choices and I dealt with them in my own thepecial way, I didn't notice an undercurrent as such because I wasn't looking for one iykwim?
With the whole 'there are a LOT of people that imply the natural, holistic approach in childbirth is the ONLY way a birth should pan out,' well yes, there are people like that... but even with my many, many birthy contacts and friends, MANY of them don't look at it that way and are respectful of needed c/s's. Some do think that way, but the very vast majority agree that c/s has its place and is important, it would be ridiculous for anyone to suggest that a vaginal birth should happen at ALL costs. I dont know ANYONE who thinks that.
If these people are around you and in your life, then find people to hang out with who are singing your tune or else the only other option is to accept that's their opinion and it's not yours. BB certainly doesn't have that view, I think MOST people would like a normal, natural birth where possible, but it doesn't always happen.
Most BB people join us during conception or early pregnancy. They know what we're like. They know what we say, they know our philosophy. But to come back after you have given birth, and had a c/s, then all of a sudden we're judgmental and unsupportive of that choice? How come we weren't before? People know what BB is all about, and if they feel this way and choose to keep coming back, there's nothing we can do. We don't preach ONE way. We might be passionate or suggest one way is more healthy in low risk women and give statistics and research as to why. But we NEVER say one option is best, for c/s or formula - there are normal ways to birth and feed - but nothing is ever best for one woman.
I am sure there are c/s forums out there. Join them if you wish. But if you're interested in growth, learning and empowerment, and perhaps seeing things in another light, then you're very welcome to stay and hang around at BB. We'll never give in from telling the truth to telling whats nicer to hear.
Whoa there Kelly,
I'm not having a dig at BB, it's usefulness or where I fit in. It doesn't hold a level in my life where it affects me in a bad way.
My opinion is about a wider community, the birthing world is bigger than BB so I was trying to talk about society in general.
For what its worth we have no issues with our choice if a needed CS. most importantly because we have educated ourselves, we are emotionally mature and we see that most empowering about our pregnancy and birth journey is a 5 week old little baby named Riley. He is what defines us.
I don't seek approval or opinion on our choice/s. We are happy. We have had setbacks that can be emotionally taxing, however we just float back to our little man and he makes it all worthwhile.
So just see my post as a broad opinion on society rather than BB.
Yep, do.:
But you realise it's not going to stop.....you might find next month someone tells you Riley should surely be on solids/sleeping though the night. Put a spoonful of brandy in his bottle, put him down you shouldn't hold him so much, why isn't he walking right on 12 months, he can't possibly go to a private/govt/boarding school.....
that's my broad opinion on society too. I just keep on trucking doing what I feel is best with the information I have.
No, not at the risk of the health of mother or baby. But if there is a mother who is petrified of a vaginal birth for whatever reason (be it physical or emotional) and understands the risks involved in a CS - why shouldn't she be given the choice?:
Absolutely. If the choice is INFORMED then who are we to say it isn't the right decision? If she has been given all the details and thus made a decision, who has the right to say if it's the "right" or "wrong" choice for her?:
I agree with this - something I said in an earlier post. NO ONE can make you feel anything you don't want to feel. I just think that some people in society are pressured by an unspoken "expectation" which is where Kelly's remarks about this site come into play.:
BB is very much about a holistic, natural, informed approach to Child Birth. It would be silly for someone absolutely in favour of an intervened birth to come on here and spout why they believe Home Birth is wrong......my point is that EVERY woman should have a choice in how she births provided it's informed. If that informed decision is a CS after she's read everything, who has the right to refuse her? Just like I've made the decision to Home Birth this time around after a bad hospital/OB/induction last time. I wish I had the information then as I do now. But if someone dares tell me that my HB choice is "dangerous" or "irresponsible" on this site, I'd tell them to find another forum which supports their thoughts because clearly their Google search took them to the wrong site!