Why all the opinions on c-sections?

[becmc]

Thanks Anney!! While I hated my experience I do think it has made me a more educated person though. Hard to explain, but before I had ds I never questioned anything, just went along with what everyone said and that was that.
But now I research every decision that I make, and get lots of opinions before deciding anything, especially when it comes to things to do with my ds, the one waiting to be born, and myself. So in a way they kind of did me a favour because I will never let anyone take advantage of me again.
And I take full responsibility for all my decisions, and don't leave decisions concerning my health and my bub up to others.

And I certainly don't think anyone is a failure for choosing a c/s! I am jealous of people that are so happy with their birth and c/s, and care providers etc! I wish I could be. But i'm not. And obviously there alot of women that aren't. That is the issue here. We are not bagging or judging or criticising anyone who has a c/s for whatever reason. Choice is what birth is about, and some of us are not given choices. If you choose to agree/believe/do whatever your care provider wants then that is your choice, but if you choice not to then they make things really really hard for you and that is just wrong.

[Rouge]

Sorry I should have clarified, I meant that no one had implied that those who chose a c/s were failures (just my interpretation of what you said... my apologies if I misunderstood). No I don't think i could have stood up for myself. I was told that there was no possible way that I could have a VBAC because my first baby was HUGE and therefore so would my next one be and my body must not be setup to birth large babies. Once a c/s always a c/s basically. I quizzed others on this and I found out I had been misinformed and basically fired my ob and found a better one. Now this man has his degree yet he was wrong. I birthed my baby fine, and he was 10oz bigger than my first. I think some woman are happy to accept that c/s is the best option, because in reality c/s is the best option for them at that time. I have no doubt that happens. But I would love to see more women own their choices if that is the case, if you want to have a c/s make that decision and stick to it hold you head high and don't allow anyone to tell you what you did was wrong because it was the best decision for you. I'm really glad that you have faith in your medical carers thats awesome and I hope you get the birth you want.

I hope you don't think I'm attacking you personally, but I do feel slightly attacked myself for thinking that c/s isn't always necessary. As my sitatuation (and many others) shows that.

[CatherineL]

Kelly - I am not angry... but I think you would agree that there isn't the resources and equipment at a home birth as a hospital and I am in no way saying that I am not supporting water and home births - but I am saying that there is also allot of controversy over these topics which also have risks yet the community support them but are so negative about c/sections. I hear that there are a few people in here that are dissatisfied with the outcome of their c/sections and I feel sorry for them and I’m sorry they feel they couldn't make an informed decision.. But I am questioning this topic and how negative ‘the community’ all are on this topic but I am standing up for the women that would elect to have this procedure and her rights.

I wasn't saying I have been ganged up on here today or in this thread - but I remember a certain someone (I won't mention any names) laughing at me because I said I wasn't afraid to have a c section if it came down to that and I was made to feel as though I was stupid because I felt this way and few things followed. But nvm, I would rather go in to my birth informed.

I am not voicing my opinion to try and change people's point of view, this is just my point of view and I strongly advocate women having rights and will continue to do so.

[BellyBelly]

Oh and a woman has a right to change her mind about anything at any time, that is something I believe. If there is something you want, fight for it, for sure... but you can always change your mind.

[Freya]

I think women are choosing c-sections because they are misinformed about them. There is no way, after having a durg free vaginal birth, that I would ever even believe for a second that csections are easy and enjoyable. A csection should only be performed when a vaginal birth is out of the question medically or if the baby and mother are at risk of injury or death. I think there are more women than is let on that have csections with their (first in particular) babies because they see it as easier than a vaginal birth, and various other mythical reasons they hear through the ill informed grapevine. I have come across quite a few who've felt this way and it makes me very sad that they are gipping themselves out of the possibility of a beautiful natural birth experience. I didnt realise that at the moment you conceive you have the option of choosing a vaginal or csection birth, I was always under the impression that csections were a "if neccesary" procedure.

I was in a position where a csection was a very real possibility for my birth after suffering with pre eclampsia and having a sudden spike in BP which resulted in my being induced early. I am extremely lucky that my OBGYN took into account that I wanted to avoid csection if possible and let me try for a vaginal birth. If it came down to "the baby needs out NOW, no ifs not buts" then I would have had one no qualms and done everything in my power to have a VBAC the second time around. Instead I was monitored religiously by the nursing staff and my OBGYN and ended up with a beautiful 3hour vaginal birth. I am extremely thankful that I didnt just insist on a csection OR be bullied into one like alot of women would in that position. Now Im facing the same issue again, I may be pidgeon-holed into a csection because of medical issues. I am praying and hoping it doesnt come to that but again if its life or death I'll do what I have to.

Whats got me thinking is, its ok for a woman to spread a horrifying vaginal birth story around and have poor first timers thinking "OMG why would I want to labour vaginally?" and possibly entertain the idea of an elective csection but a woman is made to feel bad for trying to encourage women to aim for a vaginal birth because they feel their csection delivery was upsetting and unneccesary?

[SamanthaP]

But Catherine, the majority of women aren't choosing to have c-sections, that's the point. Maternal request for c-section makes up a very small proportion of the overall rate. 32% of women don't walk into a public hospital and say "I would like an emergency caesarean please". What is more likely to be happening is that women go in with an expectation of a 'normal' labour and birth but fall victim to the policies and procedures of that hospital or their obstetrician. For instance, they are told they need to be induced for having a 'big' baby, their pelvis looks 'a bit small', they have 'gestational diabetes', or they're 'overdue'. All these things interfere in the natural process and make the outcome more likely to be a c-section. Women then think they should feel grateful that their baby was saved despite the fact that if they had of been left alone in the first place, it might not have happened.
I am not critical or judgemental of women who choose caesearan, thankfully we live in Australia and have the right to choose, but some women are being robbed of what should be a fulfilling life-changing experience because of somebody else's agenda or timetable.
If our bodies were so poorly designed to give birth (according to the c-section rate) then our species would have died out years ago! ;-)

[CatherineL]

Flowerchild - as i keep saying, i think they are choosing because it was the best thing for them at the time!

I agree, if my baby was told it was in distress and would die if i continued, i too would buckle for sure... and i am also aware that some women aren't very sure of themselves. And as i said in the above post i don't have the birth experience and don't know every freaking scenario, but i know we should be supporting women regardless whether it be an unnessesary or nessesary procedure so women don't feel so unhappy and negative. I can't help but feel if we were positive but also informative women wouldn't feel so negative after they have had to experience this procedure.

I'm sorry i can't keep up with you all, soon as i post one there are another 5...

[CatherineL]

A csection should only be performed when a vaginal birth is out of the question medically or if the baby and mother are at risk of injury or death.

Shouldn't women have the right to choose? And if people don't want to experience a vaginal birth who are we to say they should?

Cailin - you weren't meaning that you felt attacked by me did you?

[SamanthaP]

My god another 10 posts by the time I got that one out!
Just on the support for homebirth vs c-section thing. The government covers caesarean sections at the tax payers expense - it doesn't cover homebirth. If you choose this option you are out of pocket for every cent so please don't compare the two.

[BellyBelly]

Catherine, it can take the same amount of time for a woman to transfer to hospital than it can to set up for surgery sometimes. When the WHO says 15% of c/s are medically necessary, thats 85% who do not medically need one - huge percent. Of that, high risk women are not accepted for a homebirth - so if you are high risk, you will be in a hospital anyway. Birth is not automatically a medical event. It is just like digestion, yes it involves another life, but it is designed to work, so we can evolve and succeed as a race.

Interventions cause c/s and they happen in hospital. Stats also say hospitals have more intervention. Infection is caught at hospitals, so the risk at home is not that great. Haemorrhage is much less at home, again, another thing caused by intervention.

Women are giving birth in environments not condusive to normal, physiological childbirth so it is no woner there is all this fear and sense of urgency around it. But once you see the beautiful births I have and witnessed the competency and nurturing of an independant midwife, you will also see there is another, beautiful side to it.

You can have an independant midwife in hospital too. You can have a doula etc. But couples on their own, in hospital with no continuous care generally fare less better than those who do, because it is the nature of the system these days. Having that support means you have options external to policy which are not always woman friendly and in line with other things like WHO. They can give you suggestions and help you avoid what you want to avoid, have seen it many times... how are you expected to know when you are faced by whitecoats and you are in the throws of labour? Takes a straight thinker who is not on the payroll of the hosptial.

[CatherineL]

Samantha - But they are given the option in hospital when things start to go pear shaped... and you have to sign forms to consent to the procedure otherwise they can't touch you. If you say no, then they can't do anything.

ETA - i will compare the two because they are both relevant because they are both ways of giving birth.

[BellyBelly]

Yep thats true even private c/s - thats what the 30% private health rebate is for! I want my tax dollars to go towards homebirth too please.

C/s do get done without consents signed sometimes. Of course you are going to sign it if you are being told your baby might die or is in distress - you cannot think straight and get scared...

[CatherineL]

Kelly - Are infants with problems such as heart problems always detected before birth? It would take me 25-30mins to get to the hospital if there is no traffic, if I started to haemorrhage or if there were unforseen complications would we be at the hospital quick enough? How about those babies that have to go into humidicribs and have all those wires straight after birth? Again, i'm not saying that i don't support homebirths, i'm just curious.

ETA - I was going to respond to that last one Kelly, but i think i might just leave it because i am just repeating myself and either way it's not going anywhere...

[SamanthaP]

But it's coercion or bullied consent Catherine, not true consent. If a dr say's your baby is in distress (caused by induction or whatever) and needs to come out now, you are hardly going to refuse the section. The fact is, that women shouldn't be put into that position in the first place.

[LG]

catherine, I would disagree with you that the general community believes women who have had c/s's are failures. In fact i think people are too quick to opt for a c/s without properly evaluating the risks, pros and cons. This is a very very difficult situation given that many women don't think about these things until they are in labour (and are therefore extrememly vulnerable). If your community so strongly supports natural, gentle births then you should feel extrememly fortunate Just out of interest, have you done some reading/research on the topic? You Seem particularly passionate about the topic. there are some great articles on this site. If you choose an elective c/s, then great - i don't think you will find anyone judging you in here. What this thread is more about (i think from the OP) is generating a discussion and information sharing. It's not about anyone judging, ganging up on, or attacking other people's choices. You have read that quite a few women chose c/s for their own reasons and it was the right choice for them. Others feel they weren't fully informed, and others enjoyed natural births.

Just by way of interest, i wonder how many people would consent to having their tonsils taken out in case they ever got tonsilitsis without being 100% informed. People chosing emergency c/s's are not in the state to be making these decisions, which is why it's so important to talk about these topics during pregnancy, and to have the CORRECT information avaliable.

[kiki]

The department of health has just released a directive that states that cs is no longer to be performed without being obsetrically necessary. This is following research that says that a baby born by unecessary cs is 3 times more likely to die than if born vaginaly. I'm really sorry Berry but caesarian section is definaltely NOT safer for the baby.

[becmc]

I strongly advocate women having rights and will continue to do so.

This is a bit confusing now. Aren't we all advocating women to have rights, and choice?
But how is having rights being given half the information and then making a decision?? Catherine, you are talking about the rights of a women to choose c/s, of course they have a right, but my frustration is that if they were given all the information, and been told the risks of everything including the surgery, that they may not choose the c/s. How is that not advocating womens rights?

Oh, and yay for homebirth. My second bub is due by vbac at the end of august and will be much safer arriving at home!

[LG]

If our bodies were so poorly designed to give birth (according to the c-section rate) then our species would have died out years ago! ;-)

Very good point!