Why all the opinions on c-sections?

[Rouge]

Berry I am sorry that you were judged unfairly. Like I said in my earlier posts I think women who choose c/s should be allowed. I have no problems with that at all, I have supported friends who have chosen c/s in the past and I will continue to in the future. But please be gentle with those of us who have had unnecessary c/s because it hurts us just as much to have had one, for someone to say you didn't need one (which I don't think at all).

I feel like we're all getting muddled up and arguing different pages iykwim? I think the personal battles we are all fighting are very valid, which is why it makes this discussion so hard, because each of us is valid in our own experiences.

*hugs*
Cailin

[becmc]

Big hugs to Flowerchild and Lynn and all you ladies who have lost or have come close to losing their precious little bubbas.

I think that all in all that has been an excellent thread, and of course there will always be a few people we don't agree with or like what they say, or perhaps even say things in the wrong way, but I think most of us have tried to be very respectful and understanding, and I don't think anyone has specifically told anyone else they didn't need surgery. On the other side of the coin Berry, I find it hurtful when people say all c/s are necessary and lifesaving, as mine wasn't necessary and my perfectly healthy baby could have ended up hurt from the c/s and I know what I went through after the surgery. So I guess we all see things differently, not necessarily right or wrong, just different.
I am sure you will have a great experience with this birth, and hopefully when the time comes you will be calm and know you are doing the right thing for your baby and yourself.

[Trish]

I have had both vaginal births, a "elective caesarean" and a VBAC. Now while at the time I argued about the chance to birth my breech baby vaginally it was always met with the same answer.

I only wish that I was a more emporwed and even more informed woman then. I was given no real choices about my sons birth. I won't say that my c section was a negative experience. Most of the things I asked for were allowed. Had I known that there were more options I sure would have choosen them.

However, if not for my son's caesarean birth I would not have gone on the pursue and have my VBAC homebirth. It was because I knew that I would not be given the support for the birth that I wanted at hospital that I decided to employ an Independant midwife and do it my way. I cannot begin to tell you how very empowering just that in itself was.

My midwife was there for me for my whole labour and she will be there again for me in December for this baby.

What I do hate seeing is some women, and I'm not saying all, but there is a vast majorty out there, who do take what there OB says as gospel and they truely believe that they "rescued" them in their birth. They could not have done it without their OB. He/she got the baby in time, bub was distressed etc. Alot of girls are being led down the garden path, or like lambs to the slaughter house. What is needed is more education before these women need "rescuing".

Berry and Caro, I don't think that Kiki was saying

Berry, It's fantastic that you have a good relationship with your OB BUT it is because women like you

as a personal attack, more of a general statement, that there are a lot of women who do put alot of faith in the OB's and it's not always the best place to have it. Have faith in yourself and your own ability to birth and you will go a long way.

Everyone has their own reasons for wanting this birth or that birth. We are all individuals and as such deserve to make up our own minds. As long as that is a fully and unbiased opinion then you cannot ask for more.

Once you have your birth there is no going back. You can't change the bits you didn't like. It's up to us, as women to make sure we know as much as we posibly can. Have a voice and use it, or hire a doula or independant midwife to be your advocate and fully support you in your birth. Is that emergency c section really an emergancy if it takes another hour to get you into theatre ?? Or could you have waited and attempted that birth for another hour ?? Sometimes, unfortunately women are just pressured to make a decision in a split second. When in reality they do have the time to think it over.

Are you ready to risk your uterus and the chance of it affecting any subsequent births on a whim ?? Unfortunatley when it comes to something as serious as a c section it doesn't only affect the here and now it affects your whole birthing future.

[MantaRay]

This is really a catch-22 situation - women can't make informed decisions without information. And sometimes that information is going to make people feel bad. No-one wants to hear after the fact that indeed there might have been another way, if they had had access to different information. Unfortunately though, it doesn't really help if this prevents the information from being available to others, or even themselves for next time.

I think part of the problem with a discussion like this is sometimes it's hard to understand where others are coming from. A prime example is Catherine saying that women have given consent so how can they say it was against their will. I haven't had a cs, but I have been in labour, and I can fully understand how decisions made while in labour would not feel like real decisions. I was in no position during labour to make decisions, not even to communicate really, it was just a matter of being introspective and getting through each contraction. Based on my experience it is not a time that a woman can be in control of anything around her. And I believe this is why some women feel that it was done against their will, despite being done with their consent.

Sometimes what is needed is to listen to (or read) other perspectives and experiences, and to accept that we might not understand or even agree, but that it still a valid story or opinion to be shared.

[Rouge]

Sometimes what is needed is to listen to (or read) other perspectives and experiences, and to accept that we might not understand or even agree, but that it still a valid story or opinion to be shared.

Too true, and I think the thing too is that I don't assume that if someone is having a c/s that they are daft and haven't given it a seconds thought. Nor do I automatically assume all emerg c/s are unnecessary. But the thing is there shouldn't be unnecessary ones. There shouldn't be Dr's doing a procedure that their patient would rather do without purely because its more convenient to them. It should always be about choice, a woman who has been through a traumatic birth experience and she wants a c/s fine, a woman who has deep issues with the thought of a vag birth totally fine, a medical emergency to save baby or mother or both absolutely, but because the dr thinks it will be easier... thats not fair. I support choice, but I don't support bullying of either side. I wouldn't want a woman to be bullied into a VBAC because chances are if she's not 100% she'll probably end up with complications due to stress anyway, and I am definitely against a c/s for a woman who doesn't need one and is dead against it because similarly it will lead to trauma post birth. I definitely don't have all the answers, but I think that women who do choose a c/s should do so proudly, own it. It doesn't matter what the reason was, if you wanted it thats it end of story. But I also think that those that don't want it should be receiving the same amount of respect.

*hugs*
Cailin

[Lynn]

Keira your initial question was why are there so many opinions. I think the answer is clear from the answers and it is because it depends on the experiences of each person. We have all gone through things in life that we never thought we would have to but we dealt with them as best we could at the time. There is aways going to be the what ifs but unfortunately we can't change the past. We are all unique and that is what makes us all special. Different things are important to different people. For some it is the birthing process and for some it is just a healthy bub at the end. There is no right or wrong to child birth, it is what is right for you as an individual. I do believe that it is important to arm yourself with as much information as possible but I also believe that it is important to trust your ob (or midwife). For me I can read as much information as I like but what I read is not specific for me. I trust my ob and his suggestions but at the same time he values my decision as well.

Each woman decides how they are going to birth their baby for their own reasons and these reasons should be supported even if you don't agree. I believe you should also be prepared for anything as what you want for the birth may not be what the outcome is.

I agree too that we are sometimes not in the best position to make decisions if it is during labour or under emotional duress. I guess this is where we need to trust that the med prof do the right things by us and it is clear from this thread that some people feel that the right thing was not done by them. I just don't want to see all obs sterotyped in that they are only doing what is best for them. My ob (I believe) does what is best for me. He understands me, knows what I want and this is because he has taken the time to sit and listen.

[monnie]

Lynn...I absolutely agree.

Information is part of the key...as is trust.

It's like marriage really...I can have all the information in the world as to how to make my marriage work, but I also need to have trust in my DH...BUT just because I have trust and information...that still doesn't guarantee it will 'work'...

There'll be times when it does and times when it doesn't...hopefully there will be more times when it does!

I so feel for the women who were let down by those they trusted...Obs., midwives, family, the 'system'...we've all been there is some form or another...whether it is to do with birth, relationships, money, etc.

We need to embrace those that are hurting, rejoice with those who are thriving and give the gift of grace to all...

[becmc]

I actually think that placing so much importance on the birthing process and having a healthy bub at the end are the same thing.
I am having a homebirth and all my research has indicated that this is the best way to end up with a healthy bub. It has nothing to do with me wanting a particular birthing process, my only concern has been a safe arrival for my baby. I would never put my want of a particular way to birth ahead of my own babies safety.
For me the ultimate birth is the one where my baby arrives the safest way possible.
My sons birth, due to unnecessary c/s, put him in way more danger, that is why I am angry about my surgery. Not because of the surgery itself.
I think you will find all of us who have questioned our previous births do so because of the same reason, the safe arrival of our babies.
So I don't think you can really separate the birthing process and healthy baby at the end, for some the birthing process is not important, but for me the importance I place on my birthing process has everything to do with having a healthy bub.

[Inanna]

Becmc I so understand where you are coming from... That's how I feel too. We all see things differently and have different journeys... But I too can't separate the two...

Berry I haven't seen one aggressive criticisim in this thread from someone speaking of their not so positive c/section experience. I have only seen women owning their pain and speaking of how their experience was from their perspective. I feel sad that you feel the way you do...
It's great that you are feeling so positive and powerful with regard to your up coming birth. You have come to a great place for "feedback and information". But we don't always hear the perspective we want. We hear the stories of others whose experiences are different too. Discussion can't just be from one perspective and be healthy (I believe).
I believe, though we have something to learn from everyones story. So thankyou all again for sharing. It's wonderful...

[Berry]

Berry I haven't seen one aggressive criticisim in this thread from someone speaking of their not so positive c/section experience. I have only seen women owning their pain and speaking of how their experience was from their perspective. I feel sad that you feel the way you do...
...

I felt I was being criticised for trusting my obstetrician and accepting her support of my own decision to have a caesarian birth. I think my ob has my best interests at heart, makes herself available to me on-call at any hour if needed, and I am in no way suspicious of her motives; I am so grateful to have found her!

I also felt criticised for feeling that a repeat caesarian is safer for my baby than attempting a VBAC. I have done my research on this and I feel my baby will have a better outcome than if I attempted a VBAC (aside from anything else, a vaginal birth would be personally more traumatic for me and I would be more likely to descend into PND compared to if I have a planned caesarian).

Yay for the comments about respecting that each of us travels a different journey with their birth experiences - this is the central crux really, and the reason we will never reach consensus on the right way to go about the human experience of child-birth.

I just knew when I saw the very first post in this thread that it was bound to become a big emotive issue; it is helpful to hear all different perspectives but then to be accepted for forging your own direction.

[Tobily]

I feel really disappointed that some of us here feel that their decisions are being attacked because some of us who have "been there" and feel less than great about it shared their stories.

I can't - I won't - sugar coat my feelings about my son's birth because it might make someone else upset or defensive. This experience is mine, for better or worse. Just as other mums births are their own to experience, whether they have an elective c/section or birth some other way. I'm sorry some people feel judged, that is so far from the intent here. In saying my experience was not what I wanted, I'm not saying you're making a mistake. Comparing my c/section to that of another woman who has made the informed choice to have one is, as someone pointed out already, comparing apples and oranges. They are two very different things.

When I agreed to be induced with my second baby I made one critical error - having had a previous vaginal birth, I somehow had it in my head that I was "immune" from being "one of those poor women" who end up under the knife at the hands of an impatient OB. After all, my pelvis had been "tested" in a previous birth and it had "passed". No one was going to try to tell me I needed a c/section because my baby was too big, or whatever other reason.
So I went along with being induced because I had already had an induced labour before, and that one turned out ok. My body could handle it and nothing would go wrong this time either.

When nothing went to plan I was shocked and in retrospect I shouldn't have been - the writing was on the wall for my caesar before I ever even checked into the hospital. If I hadn't been so ****y and had bothered to seriously "do my research" I would've known that from the start. Actually, I wouldn't even have had to do any serious "research" - it's pretty easy to find out how common it is for induced births in mother's with GD to end in caesareans.

I share this with others in the hope that they will NOT do what I did. In the hope that they will take some ownership of what happens to them and their babies, stand up for their right to be treated respectfully, and for the right of their babies to be welcomed into the world by a mother who will have positive feelings and memories of their birth for the rest of her life. There is alot at stake here - healthy babies are the number one priority, no one disputes that. But after that there is so much more. Birth is not just a means to an end. It is a process and from that process comes not only a baby, but a mother.

[Inanna]

Niether should you sugar coat your experience Flea. It's yours and it sounds painful. This forum isn't about keeping quiet so no-one gets upset. When we own our experiences (as you have) and express our feelings in a sense of ownership (as you have) it's not your issue if someone feels hurt. I think you are courageous and BIG for sharing...

Berry: I am sorry you are feeling as you are. I still don't understand why if you are speaking of this thread as I have seen no evidence of criticisim. But your path is yours and it's never nice to know someone is feeling hurt.

[BellyBelly]

I think its time to close this one ladies. Thanks everyone for contributing.