Should Working mothers be given preference at childcare ?? rant and healthy debate :)

[Astrid]

I spoke to my centre about this. The problem they have is privacy. Whilst they state priority of care, it is hard to enforce, as they can't really ask for proof that a parent is working. I have been on both the working and non working with childcare. When I was not working, it was stressed to me that I may have to change a day, or drop my spot for someone else. I did have some priority at the time due to being new to town (no support) and pregnant. I had two days then, but lost a day with the change of year, I was offered it back a couple of months later.

When I did start working though, I had a hell of a time getting the days I needed. Different centre, but run by the same council (so same upper management, policy, shared staff etc). I had to really push for days and when I did question the priority of placement, then I was told about the privacy issue. I know many of the kids, the parents were not working and could be flexible with days (they were school mums who I spoke to, I kind of knew their schedule). I would never have asked for them to completely lose their place, as I do understand the importance of it, but all I asked for was some flexibility with placement.

[Indadhanu]

There are "Priority of Access Guidelines". I have just had this battle as both my partner and I now work and need Jazz in for the three days where over working days overlap, and had a hell of a time! Director told me I could go on a waiting list, which I did but I kept thinking... if non-working/non-studying mums are using those spaces, couldn't they just change days? It's not like I can change days, as it was my boss told me I could have Jazz there temporarily, but I know mysef that I can't really do my job if Jazz is there. I looked this up (Priority for allocating places in child care services), and brought it up with the Director. Low and behold, I got the extra two days I needed. I'm not against non-working parents. We've always had a non-working parent here, and my partner also studied but she did it at home so we quite happily changed days last year for a working family who needed the day we had, no drama, I mean, my partner was studying from home, very flexible, so the day we had was inconsequental.

Edit... should read the rest of the post first, sorry. I empathise with you, I was stressing thinking I'd have to leave by 6am to drive Jazz half an hour away in the wrong direction and then half an hour back, and factor in traffic and drop off, just to go to work by 7.30am... YUCK! And then same again in the afternoon. BLEH!

[Abigail]

the 2nd choice wouldnt give me booklets etc to read through until a position was available. The room leader told us she had space in her room but the owner said there wasnt... so who knows.

Honestly this would concern me, how are you to make a fully informed choice if they are unwilling to provide all the information available to yourself? How are you meant to know what their policy and procedures are if they wont tell you until there is a position? It would seem to be wasting everyones time if you are waiting on a list and calling in the hopes of getting a position only to find out later that you dont really want your child in that environment anyway. But maybe thats just me?

Ive been both, Ive been the SAHM with a spot, asked to leave FDC not because they needed the spot but because DS ended up with allergies and landed himself in the too hard basket for the carer. And Ive been the working and studying (at the same time) mum, who found ourselves without a placement (again due to DS allergies - this time the centre was at fault incorrectly feeding him and a whole harrah of other issues there) and back onto a waiting list, between a rock and a hard place which almost cost me my job. We called our chosen centre every other week. Our centre also has a policy (which we were informed about on placing on the list) that if you didnt keep them informed every 6 months then they would take you off the list. All the centres and pre-schools here have a list. Im fairly certain that due to our circumstances and continuing to show interest over the entire time we were on the list that our manager tried very hard to get us our spot even though it still took some time and no doubt lots of shuffling. (Or maybe she just wanted me to stop calling? lol) I will be forever grateful either way. That said there weren't 20 odd families etc on the list with us either. Keep calling, you never know and at least when you do get in, you will be really familiar with the manager lol.

[PinkPalace]

Thanks again girls.
Abigail - i am sorry to hear your experience too. I feel like that nagging mother ringing all the time lol.
but yes i thought it was weird but again the owner had broken english (which is very common in our suburb) so not sure if she understood what i was saying

[trishalishous]

Personally I would pull my DD out for 1 day, (as long as I had another day) if a working mum needed her spot.
She only goes 1 day a week atm (6 hours) and Im keeping it up, even when bellyfruit arrives, so I can get the housework done, rest, and then when bellyfruit is here spend time snuggling my newborn all alone.

[wysiwyg]

At the moment I could swap and would swap the two days I have DD in childcare but then in October I will be going back to work and so would need those back in addition to spot for DS, really is a minefield and I can understand how is difficult for centres e.g. Currently am I classed as a non-working mum so therefore could get bumped but really am only on a maternity break, so if I pulled DD out might not get a spot back and would make more difficult to get DS a spot. Prioritisation for the centres must be really difficult.

I also thought that the 24 hour a week limit for CCB for non- working parents would put off non working parents having child in care full time - I always thought was a bit of a myth about non working parents having kids in full time daycare?

I suspect the problem is more not enough places full stop rather than them being used extensively by people not working long term (as opposed to being on leave having subsequent children)

[briggsy's girl]

I also thought that the 24 hour a week limit for CCB for non- working parents would put off non working parents having child in care full time - I always thought was a bit of a myth about non working parents having kids in full time daycare?

there are many criteria for meeting the additional hours, not just working and studying. volunteering for 15+ hours a week, parent in prison or overseas, looking for work over 15 hours per week (this one is the hardest to police), having a disability or caring for an adult or child with a disability

there are also, as previously mentioned, "at risk" children - and for those kids, the centre will approach DEEWR to get the funding for additional hours. When Mum was doing FDC, the earliest a child could come in to care was 6 weeks, but i know she had at least 3 babies in care well before that age, for long periods of time, simply because they were at risk. it was sort of like foster care but only part time respite care.


i can't say i would be keen to be working out priority lists in any centre at any time! don't envy anyone that task at all

[kelebek]

I think the bottom line is that there should be more places. In theory working families do get priority. It maybe as others suggested that the people in front may all be working families too.


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[PinkPalace]

agreed kelebek!
and there should be more options for working parents - ultimatelyi could get away with care from 2-7pm but the government doesnt recognise shift workers needs as a whole.
there is a city in sydney city that is 24 hrs but far too far for me :P

I think the bottom line is that there should be more places. In theory working families do get priority. It maybe as others suggested that the people in front may all be working families too.


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[Astrid]

I don't envy their job either. I know at my centre they had to fit 25 children into 15 places. I don't know how the team leader managed it, but she did. It was a lot of juggling and pushing parents to be honest with their actual requirements. Like there was one family that only needed their spots till a month into the new year, and another family who did not need their spots till after that time.

Hoping the structure of kinder hours for next year takes some of the pressure off the childcare system down this way. I know if they do more school/work friendly sessions, then I can drop 2 days of care week once DD2 is at Kinder. If they don't make decent sessions, then we will continue to use 5 days per week of childcare.

[beansbeans!]

PP, I tried to msg you but your inbox is full

But I was just wondering how far out you are looking at going.

[PinkPalace]

thanks for your info beansbeans. i need it to either be close to home or close to DD's school for pick up reasons.
but thanks for you pm xx

[misty]

I think the other issue is, that although it is fair (IMO) to give priority to working mums in terms of the waiting list (ie, working mums are put in placements before non-working); it is not fair to kick out someone whos parent is not working if they have already entered the childcare. So, if they have a place already, then 'no' I don't think they should have to give it up.

I understand how hard it can be for parents who have to work and yet cannot get childcare. My sister (single parent) had huge drama's when she moved trying to get before and after school care for her one ds. She was put straight to the top of the priority list, but she still had to wait for spots to open up. It sucks. She nearly lost her job - and being the sole provider for her and her son, that really would have put her out on the street.

But you just do not know the circumstances of all the other kids who already have a place. How on earth do you judge who needs the placement most?? For some it may mean loosing a job, for others it may literally mean loosing their sanity, it may mean failing a uni degree, etc. I am sure there are some parents out there who would survive without their placement, but how do you know who those people are? You cann't just say that because someone isn't working that they do not need childcare.

Also, from the perspective of govt support, many SAHM's who utilise childcare are not eligible for this support. I know I am not. It is the only reason none of my kids have ever been nor ever will be in childcare, because I cannot afford it. I would love to be able to put them in one day or so a week (I might actually be able to study and finish my degree, or live in a clean house, or just not have a mental breakdown when my DH is away with army and I have no-one to help out with four kids); but there is no way I could afford it, and the govt doesn't help out - DH earns too much (apparently, although by the time you have four kids it isn't really that much), I don't have a big enough study load, or work load. As a family we likely contribute as much tax as any double income family, we just happen to be a single income family - so we are paying for it just as much as anyone else.

I just don't think the issue is as cut and dry as it may appear at first glance, and there are real issues when people feel that they 'deserve' something more then others, but they don't stop to consider it from the others perspective.

[PinkPalace]

good point misty x
We are the same get nothing from the gov, and cant afford the CC unless i am working, but i want to work - its the 50% rebate that saves me on affordabilitt
Remember you only have to be studying or working (at all! - no minimum) to get the 50% rebate up to 2 days. x

i think the government is failing in the funding of childcare places tbh. They are pushing parents back into the workforce but no support to do so.

it does make me jealous of those who live near family though

[Astrid]

There is more to it than just funding, there is the actual thing of staffing. Last year down my way there were only 6 students who graduated from Tafe. 2 were brilliant, 2 were ok and 2 were no way. Many centres could be opened tomorrow and filled, but there are just not the people to staff them.

[PinkPalace]

does the government offer the subsudised study grants for childcare?
i see they do it for nursing and financial planning?
surely it will get more people into the industry

[~clover~]

Noone has it easy. Working or SAHP.

I work from home & the only child care available here is the mobile day care on Thursdays. So if I wanted work out of home, I'd have to find some one, or have family I can rely on... which I don't have right now.

I work in my own kitchen, with 2 - 4 kids under my feet while doing it. I would love to get some work out of the house, just to get out of the house!

And I'm a single mum. If I wasn't working, & wasn't able to have one - 2 days a week then I would get NO time away from my chidren. Unless you've been in that situation, you can't possibly have any idea at all what thats really like. To not be able to just sit outside & cool down for 10 - 15 minutes coz someone HAS to watch/attend to the kids.
When you're that frustrated you're considering hurting someone, but you can't just walk away/go for a drive/whatever.

Something needs to be done. More positions need to be available AND it needs to be more affordable. We don't even get benifits the way it works here. Apparently if I was working when I enrolled DD I could've had some kind of discount... They didn't tell me what it was. No CCB.

[misty]

part of the problem is that the govt look are things on too broad a scale. They go "OK, in ACT there is no shortage", because there ARE placements in some centres in some suburbs, but other centres are so backlogged it isn't funny. Before and afterschool car is in huge shortage here in the ACT, because of the sheer number of familys that need it, and not enough staff to provide for adequate numbers at each of the schools. And yet some schools could accept more kids into their prorgams, but how does that help the parents who's kids go to school 3 suburbs away. FDC, can be so difficult to get places too, as there are not enough FDCarers, or the ones who are available, are only avaible on some of the days, or for a couple of kids, or on the other side of canberra, or only until afterschool hours. It is crazy. And extremely hard to balance it. I don't know that there is any easy solution, except more spots in general - but the financial impact for the government would be huge, which would mean more taxes, more complaining by those people who don't have kids, yada yada yada. I'm glad I'm not the one who has to try and sort out the issue. Because it IS a big issue that does need sorting.