Anyone else trying to help their baby nap better using gentle methods?

[mumiloo]

Hi Anna re catnaps... I found it was about 2.5 months that I first started to try and extend his naps and at that point the "waiting around till he wakes up and settling him straight away" thing seemed to work, but then stopped working recently

Good luck with night time, I sort of tried the "Pantley Pull Off" as well when DS had a few nights of waking 5 or more times... it seems to help, although I am not sure if I do it "properly" as he has his eyes closed etc by the time I do it. Sometimes I find it less tiring to fall asleep when he feeds, even if it means waking up more times. He still has the odd night where he will wake up many many times, but usually around 3 times or so which I am ok with. He just seems to have these more tricky nights every now and then but usually it gets better without me neccessarily doing much, hoping it is the same for you?

Writing up a plan sounds like a great idea, it helps to actually decide on the ideas you are going to try I think because otherwise I get a bit overwhelmed and confused with all the different ideas.

Kristin thanks so much for writing in here and telling us about your experience I am glad it has been so successful for you guys. I had a question- Did you think it was essential to stop feeding to sleep in order for DD to have better naps?

(I am not neccessarily wanting to stop DS feeding to sleep, I would just like him to settle down easier and sleep longer)

Great idea about the prenap routine I think we really need to do something like that too. We have a set bedtime and prebed routine at night and it works really well, usually no matter what the day has been like he is asleep by 8pm. That's why I thought I would try get a bit more routine to the day as well, because it seems to work well at night. My problem now is his days are so chaotic that I have no idea what time he should be sleeping- I'm trying to watch for tired signs and track it so i can see if there is a pattern. It's hard because he wakes up at different times in the morning and sometimes has long, sometimes short naps.

Did you find DD had a set nap pattern or did you just decide on a time and start putting her to sleep then? With DS's bedtime we noticed he naturally seemed to go to sleep around 8, so started the bedtime routine at 6:30pm. But cos his days are a mess, I wouldn't know where to start.

The bouncer idea is a good one too, DS is very active at the moment and I think it would chill him out a bit, that's why I tried reading on bed because he will lie still for me when I'm reading.

I don't use a dummy at the moment, he had one for a little while when he was little but never really took to it, do you think it is essential to use a dummy?

And you're so right Mumiloo, if something isn't working or stressing either of you too much, BF him to sleep or do whatever you need to to get him to sleep for that nap. Then next nap try again.

Yes yes yes!! This morning was a shocker... not sure if I read the tired signals wrong or what but I spent the whole morning trying to get him to sleep and he had 2 naps of 10 and 20 mins... (and rolled off the bed again ) so I picked him up and HAB'ed him for a walk...

[Kristin27]

Hi Mummaloo,

No BFing to sleep didn't cause any problems with DD's naps, the reason I wanted to stop feeding to sleep is because I have to go back to work so others need to be able to put her down for naps/to bed.


To get your days naps in order, I would get bubs up at about the same time every morning (say within 1/2 an hour). DD is up between 7am and 7.30am, so she is always tired by about 9am-9.30am then goes down for her morning nap. I'm not too fussed with routines, but I find DD likes to have one, I worked it out by watching her tired signs which turned out to be the same times each day. Having the same start time in the morning really helps to make the day more predictable. You could get up 8am-ish if DS goes to bed at about 8pm? That would give him 12hours in bed at night.

When DD was five months old she would have three naps each day.
1: 8.30am-9am
2: 11.30am-12pm
3: 2.30pm-3pm

I usually don't let her sleep past 4.30pm so she's tired for bedtime at 7pm.

At five months I worked with about two hours being her limit of time awake. Most naps were one hour long, now that she's having two naps per day she's started sleeping longer on her own, up to 2.5 hours. If she wakes under one hour into her nap, I get her up quickly before she wakes fully and BF her back to sleep, this only works 60% of the time, if it doesn't I get her up and don't worry about it. She usually only wakes early from a nap if she's over tired, which doesn't make sense but she does!

I don't think it's essential to use a dummy at all, great if he settles without one!
i just find DD needs a 'prop' for sleep and I decided to use the dummy to replace the boob. Once that's sorted I'll get rid of the dummy.

[Arcadia]

HI Kristin and Mummiloo..I just had to brag...DD SELF SETTLED tonight!!

I have been doing a few things recommended for newborns:
- always putting DD down to sleep
- trying to get her to nap in a variety of places (i.e. stroller, car, rocking to sleep)
- using the Pantley's gentle removal technique (basically removing the nipple while DD is almost asleep...it takes quite a few go's...say six, but she gives up in the end).
- having more of a "routine" at night with sleep cues (I have been slowly implementing this over the last week)

So tonight I fed DD well and put her down when she was drowsy, but awake and instead of screaming, she just lay there and smiled up at me!! I thought..oh god this is going to end badly...but crept out and stood outside listening to her grizzle away until...ASLEEP!!

I know its probably a one off, and she might be up all night (she had her vax today) but I HAD to tell someone.

Also, thank you for the advice re- resettling. I tried that this arvo and she slept for 2 hours!!!!

Such success! It will probably be completely different tomorrow, but I feel like its a step forward.

Hooray!

[Kristin27]

Congrats Anna! Isn't it great when you walk out thinking theres no way she'll fall asleep without help, and ... she does it. A 2 hours nap is brilliant! Hope tomorrow is just as good.

[mumiloo]

Yay Anna !

Hi Kristen at the moment DS's wake time can vary but it's never 8am that would be great! He has been waking at 5:30am the last 3 nights in a row! So he usually sleeps about 10 hours (7:30-5:30). Before that he used to sleep till about 6:30am.

I have noticed that he seems to get tired after only an hour or so in the morning, so is usually napping again after 1.5 hours. But the rest of the day can vary, because sometimes he might sleep for 45 mins then, but sometimes close to 2 hours. He doesn't seem to respond to resettling after 45 mins any more. Also sometimes around 2pm he seems to want a nap but it's not every day. Yesterday I tried really hard to be home in time for that but he just didn't seem tired or want to sleep.

I know that if I "miss" the tired time he won't go to sleep again for another hour, that happened today. He was starting to fall alseep in the car around 2pm but we were close to home so I tried to keep him awake so he could have a proper sleep at home. But it was too late, he got his second wind, and wouldn't go down.

I have found that "slinging" him about 1/2 hour before a sleep seems to calm him down a bit and make it easier to get him to sleep.

[Kristin27]

When DD was five months old she would have three naps each day.
1: 8.30am-9am
2: 11.30am-12pm
3: 2.30pm-3pm

I just wanted to clarify this from my last post, sorry if it didn't make sense - the above times are when she went down for the naps, not the start and end time of her naps! So she would go down between 8.30am and 9am for her nap. Sorry bout that.

Mummaloo, sometimes DD won't re-settle either, such a pain but theres nothing else you can do. I think giving him the wind down time before every nap like the sling is a great idea, lets him know whats coming up.

Do you get him up at 5.30am? Maybe you could try leaving him in his cot an extra 10-15 minutes each day until 6.30am or whenever you want to get up?

DD is also more tired in the morning and often went back down at 8am for a nap at 5 mths old.

[mumiloo]

Thanks Kristen yeah I figured she was sleeping more than 1/2 hour!

How long do you guys try to put your little one to sleep before you give up?

[Arcadia]

Hiya girls...

Firstly to answer your questions mumiloo...1.5 hrs is my limit to try and put DD to sleep. Yeah I know...1.5hrs! It is usually about 20-30mins, but the more overtired she is the longer it takes...

I also thought I would update our nap status...it is the same. 4 or 5 30min naps.

I hired a hammock which worked wonders at first, but now she cries and cries in it, so I can tell its not a solution.

I have begun to dread nap times because I have to be creative so I don't go bonkers. Today DH and I drove down the coast so she would sleep in the car (yes I planned my weekend around her sleep...am I mad?)

I also try the pram (which works 60% of the time). At the moment the only sure fire way is bf to sleep or a walk in the sling outside (which is more relaxing for me).

I have tried resettling her after the first cycle, but have had minimal success. Even if she's in the pram ASLEEP and I keep walking and walking she will wake fully after 30 mins. The only one that works is to lie next to her while she sleeps and have my boob in line with her mouth so she can re-attach as soon as she stirs. She even wakes up in the sling now.

*Sigh*

When do they learn how to nap better? Or is this it?

[Tish]

Hi guys

I'm doing NCSS for day sleeps (library doesn't have the Nap one, I wonder what the difference is?).

Something I have tried doing drawing up a bit of a "routine". Now, we are not a routine house and he is NOT a routine baby (e.g. demand feeding), but this is what I have been trying at the books suggestion.

Getting him to bed much earlier than we were (8-8.30 instead of 10pm)

Drawing up a daily routine, and trying to stick to it within half an hour. So our routine is...

7.30-9.00 wake
9.00 down
9.30 sleep (lol hopefully)
11.00 wake
12.00 down
12.30 sleep
2.00 wake
3.00 down
3.30 sleep
5.00 wake
6.00 down
6.45 wake
7.00 dinner (we've started some solids)
8.00 bath
8.30 boobs then bed (not boobs to sleep!)

I tried to design these times around what he was naturally doing, of course he's not sleeping for 1.5hrs just 45 mins (and I also allowed half an hour settling time, as the wheels were often falling off because I was settling thrugh most of the sleep time). But what I've been trying to do is stay in his room and "settle" until it is "wake" time. I stay quiet and calm and darkened room until wake time. Then I leave the room for a minute (or less if he is crying, maybe 10 seconds or less) then come back in the room turn the light on and be happy and bright "Good morning my bubby".

I was thinking this way he'll learn OK this is about the time I'm supposed to be asleep or at least in the cot, and he would not get confused about OK why is she picking me up? Hope that makes sense.

I've also given him just a short nap at the end of the day so it fits with our nighttime routine better, and TBH sometimes he doesn't sleep at all.

Sometimes I figure that quiet time in the cot is as good as being asleep, especially if he's calm.

Like I said, I'm not really routine driven, but I figured he might learn by osmosis that he should be sleeping a bit longer at these times. Lately I'm pairing this with going back in to resettle him before he wakes up.

Anna you are NOT crazy for planning your weekend around sleep. For a while there DH was considering taking leave to help me teach DS how to sleep LOL.

I hear you on dreading nap time though - I was in the same place at 2 months old, thinking I KNOW i have to get you to sleep 4 times today and I have NFI how I am going to do that. All I can say is it did get a little better for us eventually. Sadly though, this was after I relented and started using a dummy, not sure how you feel about that.

At about 2-3 months old I did find that DS was settling better if I gave him a bit of personal space, so less of the rocking in arms to sleep patting and shhhing. He was responding better if I left him in the room on his own after saying "goodnight", and just went back in to comfort him as soon as he started crying (and I mean AS SOON, so def not CC). I would comfort until he was quiet and leave again. This way he was falling asleep inside 10-20 mins some days as opposed to 1.5 hrs the "in your face" way. I figured he just needed some space. It was about this time that he started to be more wakeful overnight when cosleeping and I noticed he was sleeping better in our bed on his own before we joined him so we also moved him to the cot for the "first sleep" of the night.

Anyway, it sounds like us 3 are having similar issues and are trying similar things, hopefully we can be of good support to each other!!! And I promise not to recommend Save Our Sleep LOL. I'll kill the next person that tells me to read that :P

Cheers,
Tish
xx

[Arcadia]

Hi girls. I thought I would give an update on our sleeping.

It is SOOOOO much better this week! I had to make some pretty dramatic alterations to the way I was doing things, but with gentle persistance and a step by step approach, DD is now self settling and only waking once in the night (after 8.5 hours). Her naps have also improved to at least an hour...

So....this is what I did.

Step 1: STOP feeding to sleep! I swapped feeds to the start of her cycle (yes, a feed, play then sleep routine). I instead rocked her to sleep or used the sling. This took only a few days for her to get the idea that feeding and sleep don't go together. I also had to wake her up as she was feeding (I suspect DD used to often fall asleep before she was finished, because now she takes both sides at more feeds).

Step 2: Experiment with ways of soothing DD in her cot. Now this one was HARD. Of course we are all about gentle parenting, and no-cry solutions, so this took some patience and a lot of picking her up and trying something new. I tried patting, rocking the whole frame of the cot, but found holding her hands and placing my cheek to hers and speaking lovingly into her ear, she stopped crying instantly. I had to do this over quite a few days so she was only crying for a short spurts as I tried to find out our no-cry solution to settling in the cot.

Step 3: Put DD to sleep in the cot ALL THE TIME. I had to stay home for a few days and stop using the sling etc.

Step 4: Put DD to sleep in the cot when she shows tired signs. When she cries comfort her, but stop BEFORE she falls asleep. So its a real start-stop approach. Start comforting when she cries and stop when she stops. This took persistance but it means DD learnt that she was ok, I was ALWAYS there and she could fall asleep on her own.

Step 5: know the difference between whinging and crying and try and ignore the whinging. Now most people would complain if there were put to bed without any say in it, and my DD does whinge a little sometimes, but its like a grizzle and stops after about 10 seconds or so, and might start again. Its like a gurgle, gurgle, gurgle. I call it her sleep story, but I am hovering like a hawk until she falls alseep to make sure I am right there as soon as she cries.

Soo...that's it. It felt a little bit harder on her than I ever thought I would be. But she never cried for more than 20 seconds during this process and was ALWAYS comforted, and the results have been phenomenal. Last night she went to bed with eyes wide open and was asleep within 5 minutes without a peep. That is SUCH an improvement on 40 minutes of settling.

It has also improved our experience of the car and the pram. She no longer screams at me when she is tired and can nod off on her own.
I hope this is helpful to others, because it has transformed my life!!!