does this indicate not enough night sleep?

[lullabyblue]

DS (nearly 11 weeks) is a terror at night time. Often won't settle until later in the evening- he just wants to play. & then wakes up every 3 hours or so & I'm lucky if he decides to go back to sleep after the early morning feed- this morning it was 4.30am & he wouldn't sleep again so up we got at 5.45am.............
But his daytime naps are lovely and I am consistently waking him up so we don't go past the 4 hours between feeds. Also, I don't want to get him even more confused between day and night.
BUT do you think that because he sleeps well during the day that it is an indication of not enough sleep at night???????

[MantaRay]

LB, I am trying to think back to 11 weeks (it's been a while!) and I can't quite recall at that stage how much day sleep my boys were having. I think DS1 was probably having 2 or 3 sleeps of up to a couple of hours each, and DS2 was probably sleeping most of the day. At that age DS1 was sleeping all night and DS2 was just on the verge of sleeping for a block at night before waking 2 or 3 times for a feed.

I am wondering how many feeds your DS is having in 24 hours? And how long is he sleeping for during the day? What are your days like in terms of rough feeding and sleeping times? (it doesn't have to be exact, I know each day is probably different, but just an idea so I can see how it fits in with what my boys did).

I will get back to you when I have some more info, but atm it doesn't sound too abnormal to me. Sleeping and things often settle down around the 12 week mark, so you might literally be around the corner from more sleep. Anyway, I'll wait for you to post again and then hopefully I can give you some better advice.

[lullabyblue]

Thanks MantaRay. We actually had a decent night last night so maybe you are right and we are about to turn the corner! Last night he was in bed at 7.15pm, dreamfeed at 9.15pm, awake and fed 2.40am, settled at around 3.20am, then awake at 5.30am. I fed him then even though not entirely sure he was hungry- I brought him into bed with me for this then we dozed on and off until 6.30am. Most of that time he was on the boob though & not really feeding- is this a really bad habit to start????

A fairly usual one would be feeding about every 4 hours, sometimes 3. I was finding that he would usually sleep from 9 to 11 then I would wake him, then he would sleep from 1 to 3- again I wake him. He might then have a short nap in the late afternoon. Yesterday because he woke up so early (4.30am) was different & he slept from 7.30 to 9.30am, 11 to 1pm, & 3 to 5pm (the last 2 sleeps I woke him up) but yesterday actually meant that he was ready for bed at 7pm- perfect. How on earth do you keep bedtime at the same time every night as I'd love to repeat more of what happened last night without the 4.30 wake up of course! Even 5.30 is not great- how do others deal with the early morning risers????

[MantaRay]

That's great news LB. It sounds like things are getting better already. 4 hours is a long time for a baby to go between feeds - mostly at that age they would be feeding 7 - 8 times in 24 hours, and during the day feeding every 2 to 3 hours (sometimes even every 1 1/2 hurs). Maybe you could try an extra day feed or two - that should help him go longer at night. I think the consistent bed time will happen as you fall into a routine - this usually happens by itself if you follow his cues, he will settle into a pattern of feeding and sleeping at much the same times each day. But be warned, this will change from time to time with things like "fussy periods" (or wonder weeks), developmental milestones like crawling, and of course teething.

As for the early mornings, well it should get better than 4:30, or even 5:30, but you are probably going to have to get used to early mornings LOL. A sleep in for me these days is 7am!!

[leebee81]

Regarding early mornings, I bring Oliver into bed with us for the 6am feed (which can be anywhere from 5am - 7am). If I get up and feed him in the living room he seems to think we are up for the day and won't go back to sleep, but if I feed him in bed he goes straight back to sleep for another 1 1/2 - 2 hours. It probably is considered a "bad habit" but as long as we are all getting more sleep I don't care. If it works for you then its not a problem.

[KatieRabbit]

LB- I think you may be right with the day sleeps being too long. My DD wouldn't sleep for long at all at that age because she was having lots of lovely day time sleep. She would go to bed at 7pm then wake about 8.30 and stay awake on and off till midnight. I worked it to give her less day sleep. Sounds mean but she was cranky at night because she couldn't sleep and I couldn't get her to sleep. I would give her a sleep from 9am to 11. Then start increasing her awake time every day or two by 15 mins. It was firstly one hours and 15 mins but now we are on 2 to 2.5 hours awake time. It is really hard to start with as she was yawning and a bit tired but this only lasted a few days and it REALLY helped taking her to the shops sitting up (if poss) in the pram or sling or out someone of her normal environment. Then she would have a nap from about 12.30-1pm for about 1.5 hours (say to 2.30), keep her up until 4, then sleep from 4-5 or 4.30-5.30 and then down at 6.45 to sleep at 7. If DD gets more than 4-4.5 hours sleep now (she is 20 wks) then she is awake at night. Since doing this (because she would sleep the day away if I let her) she is asleep at 7, dreamfeed at 10, feed at 4 or 5 am and then back to sleep until 7-8 am. If she wakes at 6am I give her a dummy and she is back off to sleep.

[lullabyblue]

Well- an update. Seems like we are going through a transition at the moment as the last couple of days he hasn't wanted to sleep so much during the day. In fact, I have had to start resettling him at the end of each sleep cycle- something I never had to do- & he just seems to want to be awake for longer periods of time. & we are finally getting some longer sleeps at night. The other night was 7 hours from 7pm to 2.15am!!!! Didn't do a dreamfeed as I was dead tired & in bed myself fast asleep at 8pm! Last night he was in bed at 7pm, woke & fed 9.45, then made it to 3.30am, then awake at 5.55am. I brought him into our bed and we both dozed until 7.20 am. This is a pretty big improvement!
In terms of bringing him into our bed, I pop him on the boob & although he feeds a little, it is more sucking (using me as a dummy really!) & he doesn't actually fall asleep- just dozes, falls off the boob, then wants back on etc. I've been told not to do this as it's bad for my nipples, creates bad habit, booby should only be for feeding etc. But it doesn't hurt at all & it seems preferable to me than starting the day so early. Also, like you said- doesn't work on the couch......

[lullabyblue]

oh and he only takes dummy intermittently and is not interested in sucking it- just chewing it......

[teachmum]

Glad to see you're happier with DS wake and sleep pattern. I wouldn't be too hard on him though as he's only young and probably needs those 3 hourly feeds . My first two bubs were 2 hourly for the first 3 months. I wouldn't have a clue how long Paddy has between feeds because I don't bother to check the clock anymore (too old to see that far anyway ) and I find I'm a lot more relaxed and so is he. He sleeps much better than the other two ever did.

Keep up the good work!

[Jac]

oh and he only takes dummy intermittently and is not interested in sucking it- just chewing it......

Have you tried a few different types of dummy? I thought my DS wouldn't take one but it wasn't until I tried the Happy Baby brand that we had success. He is now 14mths and only ever uses it for sleep and we have found it to settle him beautifully. It sounds like your DS want/needs that extra sucking time without actually being fed. GL, sounds like you are doing a terrific job.