controlled crying study

[LG]

Has anyone seen this?AdelaideNow... SA study to settle battle of cry babies debate sounds like she is trying to prove CC isn't harmful to me. Surely a 12 month study isn't going to prove that. I know my 3yo at 2 was still very clingy. It wasn't until he was developmentally ready (somewhere between 2 and 3 years for him) that he started going off to play and make friends and discover the world feeling safe and secure that i was around should he need me. My 9mth old co-sleeps and i don't see anything different happening anytime soon!! I have never used self settling techniques on either boys. At 2, my eldest son decided it would be fun to have his own bed and quilt covers he chose etc. And we never have bedtime dramas because bed and sleep have always been a "good happy" place.

[Sammiejane]

Just read that, thanks for the link...

The womans baby at the end of the article may now be sleeping 12 hours at night, satisfying the needs of the mother that ignored her babies cried but the poor baby has now learnt that if its lights off, too bad if you are hot/cold, sad, cant sleep or hungry, too bad, wait until the morning....

[meow]

Is this the study we were talking about in the other thread? I didn't realise 'long tem' only meant 12 months! I would be interested in a long term study that looked at the impact 20 years later.

And does anyone find the photo in that article downright annoying?? It just paints that picture of the hard, hard work of crying, painful babies. So much for the joy huh?

[SammyRo]

Not that CC is my cup of tea but apparently, the study will measure the amount of something (cortisol, I think!) in their saliva (or it could be their blood, still have a hangover from pregnancy brain!) and it apparently will show if they are stressed or not - so I think that is what the study is going to prove- whether CC stresses the baby out or not.

[boomba]

Thanks for posting! That pic broke my heart! poor babies! Loved most of the comments at the bottom of the page!

Studies have already been done on this! i recomend everyone read the science of parenting if you havent already!

I know i wouldnt like to cry my self to sleep every night alone, or untill i decided to give up on my mum and dad to get me and just go to sleep!

My heart breaks every time i hear of someone CC

[loulabelle]

I know this is an old thread but I just couldn't help myself......

How does an only 12 month study on only 25 babies prove anything!

I'm sure that ladies baby did sleep 12 hours, because he is so exhausted from crying and he has learnt to shut of his emotions because mummy isn't going to come anyway!

What are we teaching our children by doing this to them?

I was in an MBU a few weeks ago, I co-slept the whole time but all the staff there were desperate for me to try there method.They actually implied that it's the 'only' way it should be done.

The one comment that got me while I was there was 'when the baby is warm, has a clean nappy and is full, then you know they don't need anything, they just don't like change'....aren't emotional needs, needs? like being scared, wanting a cuddle, feeling lonely or even a tummy ache?

Oh I could go on......


P.s I DO NOT want to offend anyone who has had to use these methods, I understand how it could be needed...I respect everyones choices...that's just how I personally feel about it though.

[krysalyss]

Interesting that they are validating it using cortisol. As far as I am aware young mammals do not have adrenal glands well enough developed to use cortisol as a stress indicator. Which is why we don't use it in animals to analyse stress response of young animals eg lambs to stresses such as transportation. So it would be interesting to see their methodology as to when they start taking initial saliva samples to measure an increase. Also I hope they aren't just looking at cortisol but also long term effects such as disconnection of maternal bonds etc.

[loulabelle]

Interesting that they are validating it using cortisol. As far as I am aware young mammals do not have adrenal glands well enough developed to use cortisol as a stress indicator. Which is why we don't use it in animals to analyse stress response of young animals eg lambs to stresses such as transportation. So it would be interesting to see their methodology as to when they start taking initial saliva samples to measure an increase. Also I hope they aren't just looking at cortisol but also long term effects such as disconnection of maternal bonds etc.

Very interesting Krysalyss, I didn't know that.It just discredits the study even more.

[Arimeh]

Everytime I read one of these threads now I just feel SO guilty about doing CC with DS. Even though I didn't even do it properly, we would just let him cry for about 10 mins then he would drop off to sleep. We didn't know any better, thats what the books said to do, our parents - everyone!!!!

I still feel guilty - every day - looking at him, and wondering if I damaged him by doing this to him. Could this be why he is so difficult to manage? All the tantrums, whingyness, why he is so clingy? Because his needs weren't attended to as a wee one?

My answer to that is a definite yes.. even though I will never know for sure - I will always carry the guilt of being a bad mummy around.

Thank god I learnt better for Miss M - she never cries herself to sleep - if she does - she is being comforted to the best of my ability!!!

[loulabelle]

Don't feel bad Hon,

It's hard and would have probably done the exact same thing except that I had an older sister who co-slept and had told me all these things before I even conceived my Son.

That's the thing that annoys me so much, that there is so little information out there that gives you other options.Every single one of the sleep school around practice the same thing.How are we to know better.

Go easy on yourself.

[boomba]

Oh Mel dont feel guilty. Like you said its what the books siad and at them time it may have been the oly thing that you could see helping you. I rememebr I did it one night and just couldnt keep going. i only did it cause i was at my wits end, but thne i read some great books which really struck a cord with me! i personally dont believe CC should be used but I know a lot of friends who ahve used it and thats their chioce!
your a great mummy MEl dont forget it

[krysalyss]

Very interesting Krysalyss, I didn't know that.It just discredits the study even more.

Well that was just my memory of what I read. It may be old now as lots of new technology allows greater understanding, or it may be species specific so you may be able to do this with human babies.
Also this is just a media article of a scientific study so it doesn't really go into any depth and they always like to have a good headline (Hence the slight pro-CC skew). Hopefully this study will be very valuable to this field.
I wonder if the PhD student would be interested in saying a little more on here?

[Liz]

Mel, don't feel bad. *hug* I'm totally against CC and get the science behind how it can be damaging.. but I think at the end of the day it's a really hard one to call, because there are many many factors that influence a child's behaviour/personality. We co-slept and never let DS cry, yet he can still be clingy (he's a very shy, cautious boy in many situations (yet not in others! LOL) and he whinges and has the odd tantrum these days (I mean really - what child doesn't?)

His sleeping tho, is now blissful! Puts himself to bed without fuss and pretty much stays there all night now.. probably happy in the knowledge that he's welcome in our bed if he needs us So my hardwork helping him sleep for over 2 years paid off

[loulabelle]

I feel bad about my earlier post....I didn't mean to upset anyone, so if I did I am so sorry.

The last month I have run into so many negative comments about my parenting from so called 'professionals', that I am easily fired up.

[Arimeh]

Thanks guys.

Liz - we never co-slept with DS - and only had DD in our bed a couple of times. DS is really good at going to bed now, he'll usually insist on going to bed!!!!! And since we moved him to his new big boy bed, has been coming in in the mornings for a cuddle for about half an hour.. which I love so much - I won't even swap sides of the bed with DH cos they are my cuddles - MINE!!! LOL

[krysalyss]

I feel bad about my earlier post....I didn't mean to upset anyone, so if I did I am so sorry.

I can't see that you have said anything to cause offence. It is a very emotive topic.

[Ca Plane Pour Moi]

My DS hated bedtime. I was told to CC by everyone. I refused to. So I didn't get any help or understanding because it was my problem for not CCing.

I now have a child who runs to the bathroom when I sing him The time has come to say goodnight... and is reaching for the sink to clean his teeth by at the end of a lovely day. Post bath, he runs to his room and tries to climb into his cot! We're taking the sides down early next year - assuming his sleeping stays pretty decent - so that he can climb in. Once in his bed, he snuggles down on the pillow, pulls his covers up over him and tucks himself in! This was literally an overnight thing; after 2 weeks away, DH asked me where his son was and what had I done to get this new child!

Before that, he would scream going to sleep some nights. In our arms, in his bed, in our bed, with us there, without us there, changing parents over, he was tired but just wouldn't sleep. He wouldn't play either, he WANTED to sleep but just screamed. And he was so whingy in the day. He was not very fun, I'll be honest. But what else could I do? He wasn't going to not scream going to sleep or all through the night.

[Neenee Jellybeanie]

Arimeh, Please don't feel guilty. We all do the best we can with the knowledge we have at the time. I remember having a really bad patch with DD when she was between 1 and 2 months old and was refusing the breast (as i'd run out of milk) and she would just cry non-stop for hours. I remember I'd put her down and walk away and she'd stop crying and I felt bad about it, thinking how I was unable to comfort her. And twice, i've actually not HEARD her cry and felt bad about that too. But y'know, these things happen and even if they do, the majority of the time our babies needs ARE met and that's what counts, even if we've used CC occasionally. Isolated incidences of discomfort help kids develop resilience. So please don't feel bad! None of us are perfect and we're not bad mothers either.